How do I age gracefully like an asian?
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no idea im white
No smoking, no sugar, no stress
Honestly? While it's partially genetic, I have noticed that they always were sun-cream, no matter how bad the whether is, etc, worth trying that, always protect your face when you're outside, you'd be surprised how much UV rays affect you even when it's cloudy
Cosmetic surgery
>Asian
>No smoking
>Asian
>no stress
He's going to look like an old woman when the remaining of his measly testosterone disappears.
Sakurai obviously has had plenty of work done, and that's why he used to look like a typical jap and now he looks like a plastic kpop star
>How do I age gracefully...?
Don't smoke or drink or eat junk food. Do plenty of low intensity exercise like walking, swimming and gardening. Eat a nutrient dense plant-based diet. Keep stress low and learn to manage it well when it arises. Have good relationships. Give yourself something to live for - stay creative and keep constructive habits, and be of service to others.
>...like an Asian?
Eat a low fat, starch based diet, based around rice, noodles, sweet potatoes, buckwheat and beans, including onions if you like it. Eat some seafood for the iodine, omega 3, glycine, taurine, and keep a good omega 3:6 balance. Eat green vegetables and mushrooms and fresh herbs with your starches, as well as any other vegetables you like. Don't eat too much meat and if you do eat gelatinous cuts full of collagen (also for the glycine). Don't fuss about salt too much. Fruit is fine, but not a centrepiece of the diet, but added sugars should be low. Added oils/fats too. Prefer boiling and steaming to drying, roasting and baking (creates less AGEs) but if you're being all Asian then some stir-fried veges obviously taste good with your rice or noodles - just don't add too much oil.
Pic related is 102 yr old Okinawan.
err here's the pic.
Also onions should be söy
Just look at this niBBa.
haha white boy cope is the best
Sakurai 2018
...
I never get tired of this pic.
deepest lore
*laughs*
Interesting story behind the picture:
japantimes.co.jp
>Be me
>Volunteer with a camp for the children of cancer victims every summer.
>Still get paid and it's a relaxing week.
>One super autistic kid in my group.
>Talks the whole week about his fantasy world.
>He's a nice kid so it's not a problem.
>One day he turns to me and tells me he's kekistani.
>Fuck.jpeg
>Next day he starts cheering for a camper who nickname is Nigeria
>Kid starts chanting "NI-GER-I!"
>other councilors are staring at me wondering what we should do.
>Just start laughing because I can't stop him.
>Last day of camp, he starts asking why he can't say the n-word but black people can.
>Straight up just says it in front of a bunch of other councilors because he's autistic as shit.
>Starts telling us how he made his own word.
>Starts calling us "my nibba".
>Whenever I see someone write my nibba I can't help but think of him and my awesome week at camp.
>MFW I miss that autistic racist bastard.
>I bet he's on Jow Forums right now.
Fuck, I meant his Nick name was nigeri.
Absolutely blessed
>No smoking
These old japs are smoking but living well. Obviously not smoking is generally good advice but it's hardly the Asian secret to aging gracefully.
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Good diet seems to be more important than not smoking. Junk food really does kill.
The nicotine in Tobacco helps them stay calm and unstressed
He’s wearing a front piece
These nibbas in Yuzurihara are like real life Hobbits.
>Short
>Live among idyllic green hills
>Simple village life
>Like to garden
>Live long lives
>Love to smoke the pipe-weed
>Eat tonnes of potatoes
>How do I age gracefully like an asian?
Simple.
> use vitamin a cream on your skin for years
Be it strong ones like retin-a or lighter over the counter ones, but be sure to use it every night.
> hgh + hcg
If you got that kind of money, bc consults and meds are very expensive, and, if you're in it, you may add test depending on your lvs. Note that we're talking about anti-aging quantities, not roided cunt protocol.
> avoid simple carbs, prolamines, goitrogens
Simple carbs: insulin opposes hgh action, so it has aging effects in the end. Prolamines: these are stressful particles on your guts, and it's noted have repercussions on the whole body. Goitrogens: you want your thyroid to be as good as it can for as long as it can.
> add more fats to your diet
But AVOID PUFAs. Fats are a better source of energy overall since they provide more calories and way less stressful metabolics (AGEs such as methylglyoxal) than burning carbs - that's why the body prefers to convert carbs to fatty acids through krebs cycle, instead of simply fermenting it.
> adopt a minimal stress posture to life
Learn to go with the flow, "be like water" etc. Stress will age you a lot quicker.
Reminds me of my old host father from when I was an exchange student.
In his seventies, real chill and doing well for his age, in good shape physically and mentally, still painting (art) and gardening, and *constantly* puffing on his pipe.
Based on the 1993 pic I could believe this. What makes you say front piece and not propecia and or HT?
No sugar and eat polyphenol-rich foods.
Not the other user but artificial hair is very popular in Asia. Tons of realistic looking wigs and clip-ons
you live in an Asian country with high humidity rather than northern America or Europe. cold air dries out your face, humidity keeps it moisturized and healthy.
He looks like he ages backwards.
He had thinner hair back then.
Your post has nothing to do with Asians.
>simple carbs
yeah cos Asians never eat white rice and noodles. And insulin is no issue if you are insulin sensitive, and it's not carbs which cause insulin resistance.
>prolamines
Seems irrelevant, but maybe rice is indeed a better choice than wheat.
>goitrogens
Asians eat onions and cruciferous vegetables like radish and cabbage. I guess you could say the iodine rich seafood and seaweed cancels the goitrogens out, but generally just *cooking* is fine concerning goitrogens.
>add more fats to your diet
>But AVOID PUFAs.
Asians tend to eat low fat diets compared to Westerners, and added oils tend to be more unsaturated than saturated (like sesame oil). And the meat and animal products they eat also tend to be higher in unsaturated fats: fish, poultry, eggs, as opposed to red meat and dairy. So even if they eat less PUFAs in total on average than Westerners, they are still eating a higher proportion of PUFAs:SFAs.
This is also wrong not only from an Asian perspective but from looking at centenarians and long lived populations in general: starchy carbs are the staple food, not a low carb diet among them. Though boiled starches (like rice and noodles) are perhaps better than baked and fried, and certainly better than refined sugars.
>that's why the body prefers to convert carbs to fatty acids through krebs cycle, instead of simply fermenting it.
What do you mean by this, can you expand on it? From my understanding de novo lipogenesis is extremely limited under normal circumstances and the vast majority of carbs are simply burned or stored as glycogen. Are you talking about something different?
>onions
S O Y ffs
Don't be fat
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How the FUCK do you get enough calories and protein if you do this + lift?
Really want to do this
Eat enough?
It's true that these centenarians and other healthy old folk, Asian or not, tend to be short, lean and not especially muscular, and don't eat a huge amount. Potentially by simply eating more than the slightly calorie restricted diet of the centenarians, that it would be possible. I'm not Jow Forums though, more focused on losing weight and getting healthy right now than getting big and muscular, so don't take my word for it.
My guess is that eating a large serving of rice/pasta/noodles/mashed potatoes, with plenty of beans/lentils could provide plenty of calories and adequate protein, but that may not be enough on its own.
Patrik Baboumian actually seems to eat a diet quite like that (though more Middle Eastern style ingredients/cuisine than East Asian), and he uses söy to up the protein - you might want to find a different strategy if you don't want to eat alot of söy, maybe pea protein powder? Anyone had experience with this? I'm not sure how much fat he eats to keep the calories up. Of course, you don't need to go full vegan like him, but he shows it's possible to eat like that and be strong if you eat enough (apparently 6000 calories a day - presumably you'll need less).
Cosmetic surgery, makeup, and a wig.
A mountain of rice/noodles/potatoes, a stew of beans or lentils. Veges of your choice, and perhaps a good idea to include some seaweed. Whatever else you want at the side, like meat/fish/eggs if you want. Add nuts/seeds if you want to up the fat while avoiding added oil or eating too much meat.
Look into Chanko-Nabe, the stew sumos eat. That should be easily modifiable to fit your needs, and presumably you won't be getting 10,000 calories and drinking a tonne of beer like them so don't worry about the chanko-nabe making you fat.
Patrik Baboumian talks about what he eats after 4:10
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Chanko-nabe looks fucking delicious:
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> Your post has nothing to do with Asians.
Age like asian, implied you're not asian and not living in a far east asian society.
>yeah cos Asians never eat white rice and noodles.
While carbs are a staple, they eat far smaller portions than avg american portions, and far eastern asians society has very strong views on overeating (quite the opposite of the west). I.e, though proportionally might seem they eat a lot of carbs, they in fact, in terms of quantities, eat way less. Btw, way less sugars and processed foods as well. Keep in mind that the highest living expectation in world is found in Hong Kong, which is also the state where meat is most consumed in the world as well (by far surpassing Argentina, for instance).
> And insulin is no issue if you are insulin sensitive,
Again, insulin opposes HGH action, which has very strong hormonal anti-aging activity.
>and it's not carbs which cause insulin resistance.
This is half truth. While carbs *solely* are not responsible for insulin resistance, you can be sure that, if you're prone to diabetes (and very large part of western population is), it's the carbs that will drive you there.
> Seems irrelevant, but
Says who? Prolamines are the only definitely known auto-immune disease triggers, given their ability to stress the guts and immune system. Not even smoke is held at this degree. Look up on gut cancers and celiac disease in the far east compared to the west. Honestly, seems that you're just guessing at this point.
> maybe rice is indeed a better choice than wheat.
Yes, rice is the cleanest carb indeed.
> Asians eat onions and cruciferous vegetables like radish and cabbage. but generally just *cooking* is fine concerning goitrogens.
Asians eat fermented goitrogen rich food. Westerns eat raw (slaws) or just lightly cooked greens and onions (french cuisine), or even soft boiled to crunch. None of this is enough to clear out goitrogens, compared to long fermentation.
> I guess you could say the iodine rich seafood and seaweed cancels the goitrogens out,
This is news to me, but sounds plausible.
>Asians tend to eat low fat diets compared to Westerners,
Simply not true. They add oil to any kind of soup, lots of it. Not to mention Hong Kong, as said before, highest consumption of meat in the world, while the longest life expectancy.
>and added oils tend to be more unsaturated than saturated (like sesame oil).
Different oils than those used in the West. My recommmendation against PUFAs is based on the most consumed ones: onions, canola, margarine etc. For instance, macadamia oil, which is very healthy, is also very rare.
>And the meat and animal products they eat also tend to be higher in unsaturated fats: fish, poultry, eggs, as opposed to red meat and dairy.
Asian cuisine uses lot of pork, duck, and eggs. Except for fish, how's that unsaturated. Given that beef is a delicacy over there, they do not oppose to it as well.
> This is also wrong not only from an Asian perspective but from looking at centenarians and long lived populations in general: starchy carbs are the staple food, not a low carb diet among them.
Way smaller proportions. This cannot be overlooked. Even if they're eating lots of carbs (which I held nothing against), they're high quality starches, who lack of prolamines, and are usually boiled or cooked whole. Very very different from eating pounds and pounds of sandwiches, burgers and sugary drinks 3 or 4 times a day, you know it.
> What do you mean by this, can you expand on it? From my understanding de novo lipogenesis is extremely limited under normal circumstances and the vast majority of carbs are simply burned or stored as glycogen.
This time you given out you're guessing. Glycogen is used only for small storages (100g at most, in the liver), it's not consumed daily on a daily carbs diet. If you're eating calories above your daily expenditure, and you're eating it in form of carbs, you can be sure that it will be stored as fat. Once you're above your expenditure, de novo lipogenesis is happening everywhere. In fact, insulin will only accelerate it. That's why you get "peaks" when you eat refined carbs: you're overloading your blood glucose, and it needs to get into the cells quickly before inflammation sets in, and insulin is able to bring the most active receptors up to cell surface (GLUT4, muscle and fat cells). Read about it:
> vivo.colostate.edu
But I was referring to krebs cycle, that is, the citric acid cycle that produces >30 ATPs from carbs, instead of 2-4 that would be expect from fermentation (which is much simpler breakdown of carbs). How it works? It converts carbs into fatty acids (citrate, malate etc) before breaking it down, so it's in fact a fat burning process, not carbs burning. However, to do so, it needs to oxidize the CO of carbs, and to oxidize it, it uses oxidants, that are so reactive that they'll break down not only carbs, but everything else as well. That's why you need anti-oxidants, to keep 'em restricted to where they belong. Some of the most important anti-oxidants in this process are carnosine, carnitine and coq10, which are derivative from proteins... and found only in meat. So to a extent, meat is a natural supplement, and maybe even a pseudo-vitamin, since those a.a. used in anti-oxidants are much rare in plant food.
you can just lift for strength instead of size like the ant does. getting as big as possible like rich piana is retarded most of the time when you can increase strength per pound of muscle.
as an asian who has family members in asian countries, our health is declining in proportion to the increased adoption of western eating. the shit you've listed asians eating actually hasn't been our diet until the last few decades. and life expectancy is delayed since it's based off of old people eating healthy diets, it's not accounted for the current generations that eat all this meat and oily shit because they haven't started dying yet to lower life expectancy statistics.
>Again, insulin opposes HGH action, which has very strong hormonal anti-aging activity.
Then don't eat protein either, protein raises insulin too. Or better, aim for insulin sensitivity so your body does it's job quickly bringing insulin back down again after it is raised.
>This is half truth....
It is the high consumption of fat and animal protein which causes insulin resistance and makes you pre-diabetic. Whether or not it is the consumption of carbs on top of that that makes you full blown diabetic is certainly up for debate, and eating refined carbs when you are already diabetic is definitely a bad idea. But it is not the carbs that cause diabetes, rather they trigger syptoms in people who already have developed the condition. However, by going very low fat and limiting animal protein and eating a carbohydrate rich diet (preferentially whole foods of course, not white flour and sugar), you can reverse diabetes - maybe this is not the case if your pancreas is just too far gone, but most diabetics aren't so far gone they can't heal and reverse their insulin resistance, the underlying cause of their diabetes.
I would say it is the fat and animal protein which drive you there, and the refined sugars that can push you over the edge.
>Says who? Prolamines are the only definitely known auto-immune disease triggers...
Maybe you're right. Rice, root vegetables and pseudo-grains like buckwheat (eaten in Japan as soba) do seem to be preferable so we might as well just agree here. Asians do eat plenty of wheat in the form of noodles and steamed buns though, so I'm still sceptical. Do Asians regions with high sheat consumption also have high celiac rates? Would be interesting to see.
>Asians eat fermented goitrogen rich food....
Tofu, edamame and doujiang (söy milk) are not fermented. Agreed we should not eat raw cabbage. Onions btw was the filter, I meant söy. I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure onions aren't goitrogenic. Söy I believe is.
>the shit you've listed asians eating actually hasn't been our diet until the last few decades.
Not sure if get you: the shit = western food?
> it's not accounted for the current generations that eat all this meat and oily shit because they haven't started dying yet to lower life expectancy statistics.
I don't get why you put meat in the middle of it, but yeah ofc.
I say this bc meat consumption has declined in the West after 60s by pretty much inverse proportions as refined carbs consumption increased, which is also the same rate as obesity and diabetes have increased. So I don't get why meat gets the blame for stupid diet associated with poorer health index.
All this doesn't change that the vast majority of fat stored on your body comes from your dietary fat, and is not due to de novo lipogenesis. So even if the dietary glucose consumed above daily expenditure is stored as fat, it is still in minimal quantities compared to dietary fat consumed above daily expenditure. Fat is far more calorie dense and stored far more efficiently as body fat, whereas the process of de novo lipogenesis is inefficient and much of the energy is burned off as heat in the process of converting it to body fat. Focusing on carbohydrate driving fat gain while ignoring dietary fat is missing the forest for the trees.
Thanks for the info about the krebs cycle though.
>be asian
>see this image
>REEE inside because I'm the exception to it and because for the rest of asia I know its accurate
Fuck I hate my race.
>I say this bc meat consumption has declined in the West
source? every time i see this and look this up to check, meat consumption has only been increasing not decreasing and it's especially bad in china where they already have 2x the total meat consumption of the US when it wasn't true about 50 years ago.
>I say this bc meat consumption has declined in the West after 60s by pretty much inverse proportions as refined carbs consumption increased, which is also the same rate as obesity and diabetes have increased.
This is misleading. Red meat consumption has declined, consumption of poultry has risen. Carbohydrate consumption has not risen (proportionately, though it has risen in total calories consumed *like all macronutrients*). Oil/fat consumption has increased. Overall calorie consumption has increased. Oils have risen proportionately more than any other food, so blaming carbs, even processed carbs, is wrong-headed. I bet corn syrup has increased though even if cane sugar has decreased, and presumable refined carbohydrates have risen relative to a decline in whole food carbohydrates.
>Then don't eat protein either, protein raises insulin too.
> implying proteins cause insulin response on the same degree as carbs, especially refined carbs
Nice bait...
> It is the high consumption of fat and animal protein which causes insulin resistance and makes you pre-diabetic.
Fat doesn't even trigger insulin response, how tf it would be involved insulin resistance due to overload?
Regarding protein, the insulin this is non sens, the spikes are nowhere near the same that of even starchy carbs, even if you're considering processed proteins like whey powder. Honestly never heard even vegans saying that protein induces diabetes.
>But it is not the carbs that cause diabetes, rather they trigger syptoms in people who already have developed the condition.
Ofc, and that's a very large part of western population.
> However, by going very low fat and limiting animal protein and eating a carbohydrate rich diet (preferentially whole foods of course, not white flour and sugar), you can reverse diabetes - maybe this is not the case if your pancreas is just too far gone, but most diabetics aren't so far gone they can't heal and reverse their insulin resistance, the underlying cause of their diabetes.
What you're proposing is the literal opposite of the most scientific way to control diabetes without drugs, no matter if you're far into it or just discovered it. I'm not even a LCHF fag but this is one of the few widely documented situations where ketogenic diet is indeed a very safe and effective treatment. There are literally dozens of reports of drug-free treatment based on it. Just look it up. Meanwhile, all of the high carbs recommendations must be added drugs for treatment.
> pediatrics.aappublications.org
> diabetes.co.uk
> researchgate.net
> All this doesn't change that the vast majority of fat stored on your body comes from your dietary fat, and is not due to de novo lipogenesis.
Source on that? Afaik, the current model for obesity relies on the total calories, regardless of source. The strong opposing model (CIM) has a few good arguments for carbs being the driver of obesity, regardless of fats. Nonetheless, neither of those claims that dietary fats are responsible for fattening. Simply, there's no such thing as serum fat being capture by fat cells, while there's the evident mechanism of insulin inducing conversion of carbs into fats...
To this point, I'm getting the impression you're a vegan shill or such, and have not actually studied the matter outside of its sphere, since you're lacking of basic physiology knowledge. Please correct if I'm wrong...
Eat more fish and try to drop the carbs.
>I don't get why you put meat in the middle of it
Because meat consumption has risen steadily in Asia alongside the Westernisation of their diet, and parallels their rise in obesity. Sugar has not done so to the same extent, btw.
>So I don't get why meat gets the blame for stupid diet associated with poorer health index.
It would be wrong to blame meat alone, but a high consumption of animal products is associated with diabetes and obesity. I don't think alone it can cause obesity (refined oils obviously play a big role in that, as well as total calorie consumption), but it can cause diabetes or at least the preconditions necessary for diabetes to develop.
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It is also associated with heart disease (despite how much low carbers challenge this), and Westerners in the mid 20th century had plenty of that while eating plenty of meat even before the rise in obesity. So meat cannot alone explain the developments of the late 20th century/2000s, but it can still be associated with other modern patterns of disease which started developing earlier in the 20th century.
of course it would be misleading. my grandparents were extremely poor in the past and had to work as children just to make enough for the family. and guess what, none of them could afford meats because they were extremely expensive compared to today, they all ate high carb foods like sweet potatoes mostly and vegetables, rice on a good day, and meat once a month. they were also lean, unlike their overweight selves today. they're all on many medications just like you'd expect a typical 40 year old american would, and its solely because after they started gaining wealth, they started eating a shit ton of meat and oily foods which was a polar opposite of what they ate when poor. people on fit that say veganism is a privilege are the fucking privileged ones, never came from a poor family and are completely brainwashed by industrial farming propaganda.
just want to chime in here, it's actually protein consumption being related to insulin response which i think he mistook it for fat. people that eat high fat diets also coincidentally eat high protein diets and they both contribute to obesity in their own ways
I knew this Japanese guy that was 80 years old but he looked like he was 40
His diet was mostly fresh seaweed
>source?
From the top of the head, Nina Teicholz, though lay person health studies wise, has shown it and documented it nicely. Google it.
>Carbohydrate consumption has not risen (proportionately, though it has risen in total calories consumed *like all macronutrients*).
Not misleading at all. Red meat quantities are smaller, and carbohydrates quantities have risen. That means that overall calories increased in spite of decreased red meat consumption, and, during that period, obesity has risen just like your picture shows.
One could argue that there must a be case for quality of fats (PUFAs, saturated animal, saturated plants etc), and meat (beef, processed meat, processed poultry) just as well.
> Oils have risen proportionately more than any other food, so blaming carbs, even processed carbs, is wrong-headed.
That's the argument for the current model of obesity: too much calories. It's a good argument. There's also a current debate of CIM, which based of carbs consumption, and taking it from a more physiological approach, it's a solid argument just as well. It might be that both are correct to an extent. In that case, it would be: consumption of excessive calories will get you fatter, and consumption of excessive carbs will drive you fatter as well (maybe due insulin action of capturing glucose by fat cells). Sounds reasonable doesn't it?
But my case wasn't either for oils > carbs nor carbs > oil as sources of calories. I've made a case for meat consumption in reply to what some user appointed:
> meat consumption has declined in the West after 60s by pretty much inverse proportions as refined carbs consumption increased, which is also the same rate as obesity and diabetes have increased
> So I don't get why meat gets the blame for stupid diet associated with poorer health index
fucking retarded graph
compare processed simple carbs to fats and then the effect of eating high GI carbs+fat
Pump out terribly balanced games and ignore what your audience wants.
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It's not about the spikes of insulin, it's about insulin control and chronically high blood sugar. Insulin resistance and diabetes are inversely related to carbohydrate consumption.
The relationship to fat is with intramoycellular lipids.
Interesting convo, would be good to go more into depth. But I presume you are ina time zone further west than France. It's 1am and I'm tired so if I continue I won't be a good partner for discussion.
Bonne nuit motherfuckers.
>Nina Teicholz
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I agree with all of it.
> esterners in the mid 20th century had plenty of that while eating plenty of meat even before the rise in obesity. So meat cannot alone explain the developments of the late 20th century/2000s
Yes, that's usually overlooked.
I think that's the role meat plays growing obesity: it's one of the things people overeat when people overeat. Not to same degree as carbs and oils, but still. Overeating is one of the undeniable errors in this case, despite food qualities...
On the other hand, you got plenty of people doing keto and seeing health improvements, even reported cure of diseases, showing that there inherent qualities in food that must not be neglected. For instance, LCHF is a reasonably healthy diet, that sheds body fat, while the same HF when paired by HC will be one of the worst scenarios. Conversely, you got stories of people doing great in some types of HC, while kids getting obese while doing HCLF based of sugars and breads. There are complex interactions on the matter of quality that epidemiological studies do not seem rigorous enough to embrace.
>What you're proposing is the literal opposite of the most scientific way to control diabetes...
Keto/low carb are good for *managing* diabetes, potentially putting it into *remission*. They cannot reverse the underlying metabolic dysfunction. Look up Neal Barnard (inb4 hurr he a vegan do it don't count) if you want an introduction to someone who treats not the symptoms, but the underlying cause with a high carb, low fat whole foods plant based diet.
Walter Kempner is an even crazier example, who using a diet of rice, cane sugar and fruit/fruit juice to *reverse* diabetes. I don't think that's the best approach (nor did he long term, it was designed for people with kidney failure as a therapeutic diet) nor that it would work for everyone but just the fact he was able to have success with that speaks volumes.
A very good video on this topic btw:
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>The strong opposing model (CIM) has a few good arguments for carbs being the driver of obesity, regardless of fats.
Then why does carbohydrate consumption (as proportion of the diet) inversely correlate with obesity?
> Afaik, the current model for obesity relies on the total calories, regardless of source.
Yeah no shit caloric excess is necessary for obesity, and people who get obese don't restrict macronutrients. They still tend to eat diets proportionately higher in fat than carbs. Source of course also counts for a alot - I am sure consumption of sugary drinks tracks well with obesity, but that is not a question of lacronutrients, but of where those macronutrients are coming from.
>To this point, I'm getting the impression you're a vegan shill or such
Not vegan, but plant based sure.
>and have not actually studied the matter outside of its sphere, since you're lacking of basic physiology knowledge. Please correct if I'm wrong...
Not wrong, I'm a novice. That's why I'm on Jow Forums not PubMed.
But Asians eat proportionately higher carb than Westerners user, and are developing Western diseases as their diets westernise and their carb consumption drops.
Beginning to think that nutrition is like the social sciences in that there are studies supporting everything, none of them can be replicated, there's no theory tying them together, and in the end everyone just believes what they did before
> Keto/low carb are good for *managing* diabetes, potentially putting it into *remission*. They cannot reverse the underlying metabolic dysfunction.
That why diabetes is deemed as chronic disease. There's no curative treatment (in the sense that makes the patient able to deal with carbs again) that doesn't rely on drugs or avoiding carbs.
>if you want an introduction to someone who treats not the symptoms, but the underlying cause
Keto followers argue the same, and tbqh, they seem more based in this matter. Especially Dr. Bernstein and the docs over paleomedicina.com, since they're conducting research at top lv with consistent results.
>Walter Kempner is an even crazier example, who using a diet of rice, cane sugar and fruit/fruit juice to *reverse* diabetes. I don't think that's the best approach (nor did he long term, it was designed for people with kidney failure as a therapeutic diet) nor that it would work for everyone but just the fact he was able to have success with that speaks volumes.
I'm familiar with those approaches. They're not sustainable in the long term nor feasible for anyone who's thriving more than the usual adults (children, pregnants etc).
> Then why does carbohydrate consumption (as proportion of the diet) inversely correlate with obesity?
Here's a short read justifying the CIM, very high quality research based as you can seem by the p and approach:
> medium.com
>Yeah no shit caloric excess is necessary for obesity
Yes, ofc. Take a look at the article above.
From what I gather, it's the HCHF pairing that's particularly risky, not HCLF (if you count in the portions), neither LCHF (disregard portions). Which both do well, in this matter of obesity.
> Not vegan, but plant based sure.
Take a look at "The Fat of the Land" by Stefansson if you want solid opposing views, as well as paleomedicina.com and George Ede MD (dietdoctor.com).
>Nina Teicholz
Oh no no no no no
Literal shill journalist who either intentionally misrepresents her sources or is just a dumb bimbo.
>Not misleading at all. Red meat quantities are smaller, and carbohydrates quantities have risen. That means that overall calories increased in spite of decreased red meat consumption, and, during that period, obesity has risen just like your picture shows.
First you said meat, now you say red meat. Poultry is also a meat, and consumption has risen.
>> meat consumption has declined in the West after 60s by pretty much inverse proportions as refined carbs consumption increased, which is also the same rate as obesity and diabetes have increased
Meat consumption hasn't declined, it hasn't risen as much as carbs and fat. Protein is harder to overeat than carbs or fat so no surprises there. But we still eat a lot of it in the West, and certain protein rich foods like cheese and chicken have increased even if red meat has decreased.
Carb consumption hasn't even increased proportionately by anything more than a few percent, only totally, *just like fat*. And Americans have eaten white flour and sugar for a lot longer than the obesity epidemic, so even refined carbs cannot be seen as the trigger.
> So I don't get why meat gets the blame for stupid diet associated with poorer health index
It shouldn't alone, but it can still be associated justly with a poorer health index *in certain contexts*.
>that there are studies supporting everything, none of them can be replicated, there's no theory tying them together, and in the end everyone just believes what they did before
Much like social sciences if you take epidemiological studies as a base of argument.
Looking into physiological approaches in clinical studies, things get a lot clearer. Much like medical science btw. Thing is epidemiological studies are great for propaganda (be it product campaigns or government actions), and much easier to comprehend those who didn't get into science. Not to mention a great part of the researchers are into it just bc it's supposedly simpler that other health studies (relying epidemiology), having less direct responsibilities regarding patients, and, all in all, much less paper to read, since even many professors will look at meta-analysis at most. Hard science, practically none.
>medium.com
Will read tomorrow morong but also link this again, which is specifically in response to Ludwig:
medium.com
>Take a look at "The Fat of the Land" by Stefansson if you want solid opposing views, as well as paleomedicina.com and George Ede MD (dietdoctor.com).
I'm very familiar with Stefansson and have some knowledge of the other two. I first got into nutrition with paleo and even went so far as trying zero carb. I read the fat of the land and all of the Stefansson books I can find. And Weston Price, and lots of paleo/low carb stuff. I have moved away from that towards plant based simply because I don't think it is that well supported in the end, except for in certain contexts. Denise Minger and Ray Peat were the ones whoe helped get me off the 'carbphobia' and I opened up to learning from vegans/plant based doctors even. In the end, I think they have a lot to say that needs to be taken into account, from a health, environlental and yes, eve, ethical perspective - even when paleo or zero carb I tried to get aaway from factory farmed meat/eggs/dairy as much as possible.
I still think Weston Price is very important though and vegans would do well to take lesson from his book.
Also I highly recommend the Plant Positive channel on YouTube. He goes very much into depth concerning lyths and bad science coming from the low carb/paleo perspective. Even if you don't agree with him in ultimate conclusions, the info he gives is very in depth and should be taken into consideration even if you stay low carb, so that low carb doesn't get dumbed down by journalists like Taubes and Teicholz or supplement selling bloggers.
...and with that I'll actually head to bed like I said I would. Make sure there is something interesting for me to read tomorrow.
>self-loathing Asian
you know you're not nearly as unique as you think you are, right?
by taking estrogen? looks like a tranny