Why do some experts ignore them completely and only tell you to do pull-ups/chin-ups.
Then you have other experts who say Rows are the best and you NEED a horizontal pulling accessory lift, not just a vertical pulling accessory.
If my goal is just health & general strength, not maximizing aesthetics or absolutely maximizing strength, do I need to Row? Any reason why I can't just do extra Pull-ups & throw in some Band Face Pulls after every Upper body session?
They're great for doing chin ups, starting the lawn mower, kayaking, and having juicy lats.
well, a horizontal pull is somewhat essential for a good routine. Thankfully there's a shitton of row variations and you can choose whichever you like the best. So if you're one of those people that finds them dangerous just do seal rows instead, there's nothing that can go wrong there
Thats the problem.
I lift at home. The only possible Rows I can do is with a Barbell, Bent Over Rows, or Pendlay Rows.
Neither really feel that great....and I often get lower back pain from doing them.
I was considering stopping them and doing more Weighted Pull-Ups/Chin-Ups in place of them, and adding some Band Face Pulls to make up for the loss of horizontal pulling, at least for shoulder health.
Ever try inverted rows?
>lower back pain
Start training your abs and glutes and stretch out your hips
You can do makeshift tbar rows, just load up a 45 plate on one side and load the other side with plates too. These are great after deadlifting cuz you don't even need to take any plates off or switch anything around. You can do these one handed too
Meadows rows are also an option. Easy to set up with a barbell.
Who the fuck doesn't just pay Jose five bucks to mow their lawn?
try Pendlay rows with underhand grip. every barbell row variation felt unnatural and caused some strain in the lower back, but underhand Pendlay rows just clicked for me
rows are shit-tier except tbar
Rows target and build the upper back in ways that chin/pull ups do not. They are hardly "mandatory" but if you don't do them you need to make sure you are hitting your middle traps/rear delts/rhomboids/rotator cuff/etc with other exercises. For example bent over lateral raises are an excellent, often overlooked movement which will hit many of these areas.
>starting the lawn mower
This man gets it.
>he doesn't enjoy showing off his juicy lats to the neighbors daughters and wives by mowing the lawn shirtless
>he doesn't laugh internally at imitating the 30 year old boomer memes and listening to dad rock while mowing the lawn
>he wastes money paying a filthy illegal to do something that takes 20-30 minutes
I didn't make it to a 3pl8 row to not mow my own lawn, man. I love starting up that lawn mower.
I skip them and just do dumbbell rows. Anyway you do them will be closer to the type of lifting you'll do outside the gym.
I used to pendlay row. Got decent at them too, going up to around 255lb 5RM with strict form. Weights after that always caused my hips to kick in and kip. Regardless, I stopped doing them after I snapped my back on one shit set of deadlifts and replaced them weight weighted pullups. That was a while ago though and I've since recovered and worked my way back up.
Now I'm thinking about reincorporating some form of rows, but I'm not sure how. I don't want to stop doing weighted pullups, but I also am having a hard time figuring out when to do them. Don't want to do them after deadlifting to protect my back. I've started doing them after my weighted pullups on those days, but I'm already pretty spent from burning out my back on the pullups. Maybe instead of two days of pullups per week, I do pullups and rows once a week each?
What do you guys think? Also should I do pendlay rows or should I just do bent over rows?
cable rows are goat
>Rows target and build the upper back in ways that chin/pull ups do not
This is true. After spending a lot of time only doing pullups for my mid/upper back, I now have a really wide back but it has zero definition, like the back of a cobra's hood. Wide but smooth and flat without really seeing too much definition from the other muscles to give it that bumpy "3D" look. Which clearly tells me I need to do more work for them.
All of this. My neighbor's 15 year old schedules her sunbathing around when I mow and I've definitely caught her staring. I wouldn't touch it because I'm not looking to go to jail, but I know it drives him crazy(jesus freak) and I'd totally blow her out once she turns 18 just to see the look on his face.
As for Pendlay vs Bent over, I've never noticed a difference, I'd say whichever you can do more safely.
Also yeah don't do them on days you deadlift, I've always done them before I bench. I've been doing the Chin ups on deadlift days and then rows on bench days and seeing good results with both.
I'm /homegym/ so I have no access to cables. Barbell/Pullupbar only
I like both pendlay and bentover rows but I feel that it fucks with my lower back a bit doing bentover rows, pendlays feel great but I can't nearly go as heavy. I'd just say go with the one that feels the best to you
try rows out and see what result they provide. if the results fit your goals, row. if not, you don't need to.
Barbell rows do almost nothing for my lats but will annihilate my lower and middle traps, rhomboids, teres major etc (all that gnarly detail in the back) and my spinal erectors. Pull ups do nothing for my back besides smashing my lats.
For years I felt like row were supposed to hit the lats as their primary purpose and since I couldn't feel this happening I ditched them and chalked it down to a poor affinity with the lift. Just did pull ups and face pulls - got big lats, but checked my back out in a changing room mirror and it was fucking flat - wide, but flat because all I had done was lat work. face pulls did nothing of anything besides rear delts (although I was using them strictly to isolate the rear delts so this may have been different had I increased the weight and let the whole upper back take over).
Now I row and that detail has filled in nicely. I had a goal that rows were suited to, so I did them.
Very nice. Today I was visiting my parents to help move mountains of dirt that were in the front yard due to construction. Doing lots of shoveling and then farmers walks of heavy buckets of dirt and all the grills driving or riding their bikes by were mirin hard.
if you have lower back pain you might be going a bit too heavy and messing up form to move the weight try lowering the weight to where you can actually feel the contraction in your lats keeping perfect form (look up good form on youtube) then go up in weight gradually from there, you shouldn't be having ANY lower back pain unless you have a pre-existing back injury if that's the case then you have to find a substitute.
I have a day for rows and a day for pull-ups. However, I throw in pullups at the end of my workout on days that I don't do them. I found that I struggle to progress on pull-ups if I only do them once per week. However I don't count failure if I'm just doing the at the end of my set (I'm usually exhausted from rowing and deadlifting at that point)
>in casino with chad friend
>girl who we later had a threesome with approaches me
>my chad friend is used to getting tons of girls and he saw she preferred me
>he asks "who's hotter, me or user?"
>she points at me and says "him, his back is hot"
do your rows.
What counts as "heavy" anyway? Like I said previously, I was able to get up to 255x5 on pendlay rows but just couldn't break any further than that without form breaking down and cheating the weight, no matter how many times I deloaded and tried to make sure I was doing everything perfectly. But who knows, maybe the extra work put into pullups since then will have helped out.
Guess I'll try pendlay again to be safer with my back.
I'd say 255 on pendlay rows is pretty fucking heavy, then again it's all individual
how often do yall do pull ups? i heard you can do pull ups everyday but not if they are weighted
this, 255 x 5 is heavy
Alright, so I'm thinking:
>AxBxCxx
>A day: weighted pullups
>B day: deadlifts
>C day: pendlay rows followed by a couple sets of high-rep unweighted pullups
sound good?
you can do any lift every day if you're not doing significant volumes. a common method of improving pull ups is to very submaximal sets many (>20) times per day.
if you're doing something like 5x5 heavy pull ups every day almost to failure you're going to have serious problems doing that. this applies to every lift.
okay, cool. It's hard to know with rows because nobody tracks them seriously like with squat/DL/OHP/bench and because there are a billion different row variations
yeah totally. unless someone is rowing exactly like you do you can't compare - i have a friend who rows 315 with an almost upright torso and plenty momentum, whereas I am working towards 225 x 8 strict almost parallel to the floor. it would be like comparing a deficit deadlift to a rack pull
I just realised this site is worse than Reddit
This one time I hit 175 ROWN for a pendlay
The close grip row is an accessory for the deadlift that doesn't fatigue the quads or the glutes, allowing for more erector and upper back volume without interfering with the squat recovery. The chest supported row removes the erectors, leaving only the upper back.
The wide grip row is a pullup accessory. If the lats are placed perpendicular to the weight (the shoulder at about 80 degrees extension), then they can produce much more force than at any other angle of shoulder extension/flexion. This means you can put more mechanical tension (which drives hypertrophy) onto the lats and the rear delts (and traps, rhomboids etc).
They are not very useful at low reps because progress is hard to judge due to changes in row angle and unintentional involvement of the hip extensors. You would only need them instead of more pullups if you are trying to avoid repeated use injury of the joints by adjusting the angle of the pull.
Band face pulls can hit a variety of muscles depending on supination of the forearms and positioning of the scapula. The inability to load them heavy makes them useful for training the rotator cuff muscles more than the rear delts.
nice LARP mate
if you think this is an alien, unbelievable story then i feel sorry for you
I'm going to be the reason your daughter deletes tindr from her phone through tear stained eyes. She'll let me ravage her asshole because I'm cute and I'll tell her everything she wants to hear. She'll want to tell someone how much it hurts, but she blames herself because she was dumb enough to fall for it.
>18
the AoC in most of the states is 16
Lord Rippletits says rows are worthless. Just do your deadlifts and cleans.
he literally has videos teaching the barbell row
Yeah looks fine to me. Try it and see if it works for you
Vertical pulling is kinda unnecessary, as those muscles get work in rows and deadlifts.
Pull-ups/chinups are also much harder to micro load due to bodyweight being a factor, ie your weight fluctuates in a day
What row should I do? Pedlay, bent over, cable, chest supported? I do lots of pull ups and dl.
And in these videos he shits on it for being a mere pulling accessory fit for injured people, elderly, and women. It is not an essential lift at all like what OP is asking.
>snapped back on deadlifts got another one boys!
>girl who we later had a threesome with approaches me
2 guys on 1 girl 3some?
Fucking homo
If your goal is health & general strength you should still do rows but prioritize deadlifts and power cleans since they mimic how you pull irl more, be it kayaking, tug of war or wrestling.
Make a seal row bench out of pallets or whatever.
faggot
Add an accessory or two at the end if each workout
Never gonna make it. Deadlifts is not going to build you a nice back, chin-ups/pull-upps and BB rows do. So alternate your A and C and treat deadlift for what it is: a leg exercise.
Kys dumbass
KROC ROWS you dumb fucks
If the parents don't like you they can have you brought up on federal charges, moron.
Are you rowing slow and do you slowly lower the bar, too? That may be the problem, since rowing has to be done explosively and lowered with the same speed. Don't hold the bar on top.
I don't think you know what age of consent means
I don't think you understand what a Corruption of a Minor charge is.
What about Chinese rows using the bench?
None of that made any sense whatsoever. I'm only DLing once a week and doing heavy pulls during 2/3rds of my workouts.
Perhaps if I have time. Maybe some power shrugs and facepulls using a resistance band.
I don't think you understand what a Corruption of a Minor charge is.
>2018
>not doing seated cable rows
Superior in every fucking aspect. How many times does it need said?
it applies only when the adult has some sort of authority, like teacher or coach and only in some states, or when sex is accompanied by something like alcohol use and pretty much only in Pennsylvania
Based boomer lifestyle
>be me, 15 years Old just got home from church with dad
>Nice weather outside so decide to Get my tan game on
>just laid down in my backyard when i notice creepy boomer neighbour staring at me through his window
>all of a sudden he is outside firing up his lawn mower even though his grass is newly cut
>starts circling around his lawn, no shirt with gut hanging out
>coming gloser and closer
>dad has warned me he is convicted sex offender so i keep looking over at him making sure he isn't up to anything
>suddenly our eyes meet and he winks and starts walking towards me
>gonnagetrapet.jpg
>leans over fence seperating our backyards: "you are turning into a fine Young woman, i can tell your body has naturer alot"
>oh fuck its over for me
>"you know i was quite a stud back in the day, you would have been all over me"
>getting ready to Nope the fuck out
>" you can Probarbly tell i still keep in shape, i can do lmao1pl8 rows. Would you like to Feel my huge lats?"
>Finally Get up and leave, But he starts Climbing over the fence
>run inside while fat beighbour still struggles with fence
>lock the foot and tell my dad, he is fuming and goes ti contact police
>fast forward 2 weeks, police raid his house and arrest him. Apparebtly he had been grooming Several underlagt girls
>Mfw that Could have been me
deadlifts might not build your back well for life, but they sure are good at destroying your discs, sacroiliac joint, and facet joints!
Because weighted chin-ups and deadlifts are all you need for a decent back.
Meanwhile all the 50-60 year old boomers I know who have never touched a barbell or dumbbell in their lives all have knee replacements and herniated discs. But sure, it's totally going to be the deadlifts that fuck you up.
But those are two horizontal pulls, one from above and one from below. You want some sort of horizontal pull in there for completeness
*two vertical pulls, I meant
film from the side, youre probably letting your lower back round
A-are pullups enough for back? I don't do deadlifts or rows
no, unless you have a snapped back and can't do lower back stuff. Not having equipment isn't an excuse and your pullup bar at home isn't going to cut it. Either put together an actual home gym or get a membership.
This, you shouldn't be getting back pain from rows of all things.
>no "how you girls doing" from boomer at the bar meme
>no "heh heh I still got it"
3/10, apply yourself