What is the point of getting on steroids if you have to keep taking them forever to keep the gains?
Maybe I'm just an autistic high-inhib incel, but it seems like a stupid and reckless idea to start unless you are 100% sure about staying on for life.
That said, what do people who start taking steroids think? Do they not think 1 year into the future, or 5 years into the future? Do they not think of the fact they have to keep on buying steroids and injecting them to keep the gains? Or is it more so just the low-inhib alpha yolo mindset of not giving a shit and just doing it no matter what living in the moment and not caring about what you will be doing in the near/distant future?
you don't have to keep taking them forever to keep the gains a short test only cycle will have you reaching your "natty" limit much quicker and as long as your pct is fine and you keep hitting the gym you'll keep the gains
Josiah Lewis
Thats just not true. I know people who have a cycle once or twice and stopped and they returned to looking normal again despite continuing to lift.
Austin King
> despite continuing to lift
yeah because that's enough. You need proper PCT
Julian Parker
There isnt any. Steroids are what weak willed men do because they want to pretend they are kings for a few years before they become nothing again. Rather than actually improving themselves in a way that will last.
Lucas Baker
Im natty. But id rather be a king for a day than a peasant forever
Jace Carter
Costs about 80 dollars to cruise on test year round and keep all of your gains
Grayson King
Understandable, but you could also find a way to obtain self-affirmation that isn't fueled by an inferiority complex.
not true, only people who don't roid believe this.
First of all you don't know where your natty limit is, so you don't know when you're surpassing it or reaching it.
Secondly, getting to your "natty limit" is super fucken hard and requires dedication and skill you don't actually possess (otherwise you'd be there already after a few years of lifting), so when you remove the steroids your routine and work output won't be able to maintain those unnatural gains. Within 6months they'll be gone. no exceptions.
Steroids are for life long users who have low testosterone and bad genetics naturally, or for pro-athletes / models / actors who need to be competitive in their business.
If you're a normal healthy male it's pretty stupid to bother with roids.
> >im on test for life and probably infertile by now and need ancillaries to regulate sides bad decision
James Edwards
Theyre idiots then. If you use a testostrone cycle and then; continue eating to maintain new mucle, proper pct, proper training you then you will keep gains. Surely youll lose some water weight, but most strength and muscle can be held onto for a long time.
Joseph Brooks
>if they did it all proper they would maintain gains if they were lifting proper from the start they would have those gains already.
assuming a person has been lifting for a good 3-4 years "properly" and is long past newb gains, there's basically no point to do roids. He should be at his natty limit, in terms of size/looks.
if you've been lifting for 3-4 years poorly and then use steroids to reach your natty limit, i guarantee you'll not be able to maintain those gains long, your training and work skill just aren't there and the steroids were a crutch.
Only time it could be justified is if a guy who reached his natty limit naturally lost his gains due to an accident or something, and didn't want to spend 3-4 years making them all back. An argument could be made for steroids then...BUT there's muscle memory, so he should be able to make those gains back in like half the time 1.5-2 years desu...
Jackson Reed
Making it to your natty limit requires much more than maintaining a natty limit. Its pretty tough for a normie to be able to hit natty limit and still live a fruitful life.
Nathaniel Lee
>But id rather be a king for a day than a peasant forever The irony is you're not a king at all but the deluded jester who thinks because he got to spend a day in the kings hall he was king for a day.
You're a peasant and always will be because you cant actually commit to something truly challenging.
Nathaniel Green
It starts as one cycle
Now I've been perma-mini-blasting on 325mg test a week.
Blood work is perfect, blood pressure is perfect, effortlessly maintain muscle while continuing to build cardio capacity for racing.
I could go off and look like I did natty but why? My cost for test is like, 80 dollars a year
Dylan Wright
>The irony is you're not a king at all but the deluded jester who thinks because he got to spend a day in the kings hall he was king for a day.
This is the most autistic thing I've read on Jow Forums today. Congrats.
Charles Brown
1. the "look" you get on roids won't be maintained when you go off, the "look" is something unique to roids because of the fullness, vascularity, blood thickness and pump they give. Even if you maintain the same muscle mass and strength the look will be lost, and it will suck, because the "illusion" of size is a huge part of lifting.
2. lets say you gain 20lbs of muscle and hit your 'natty limit' on roids, you won't be able to maintain these gains for long by doing the same routine and eating the same foods when you go off roids, because your body will be less efficient at protein synthesis, less efficient at everything, even your stamina and work output will go down, your recovery will go down, you're basically a different person carrying a load of muscle your body doesn't know how to maintain. And equally important is you don't actually know how to maintain this size naturally, you never maintained this size naturally in your life, so how would you know what it takes? You basically reached this point via cheat codes and stolen equipment, once you lose the codes and equipment the level difficulty will prove too difficult.
Anyone who has been lifting 3-4 years natty should be very close to their natty limit to the point of making roids irrelevant. If you have been lifting for 3-4 years and your gains are shit and think you can just use roids to "hit your limit" and then cycle off, you're going to be disappointed, and you will definitely cycle more than once and probably end up being on roids for life.
Angel Kelly
where does 325/mgs put your test level at? and where is your estrogen at? and why did you settle on such a weird dose...what are your goals and results? I ran a similar thing for 6months but got really sick of pinning and having to rely on drugs, just to look a bit better than I would naturally. I hated having to structure my vacations around injection times. And I started getting bacne around month 6...overall not worth it for a bit of extra gains.
Landon Nelson
Athletes are weak willed men. Got it
Jaxon Nguyen
>The irony is you're not a king at all but the deluded jester who thinks because he got to spend a day in the kings hall he was king for a day.
LMAO ROID FAGS BTFO ETERNALLY
Hunter Robinson
Athletes roid to excel at their work, not because they are insecure gymrats. When Dorian Yates retired he stopped doing roids and lost his gains and that makes sense. No point to risk your health and pin drugs every couple days to maintain something that is pointless vanity...
Adrian Hall
Thats not what you said tho, you painted everyone who use roids as weak willed men. Even the ones in trt Must feel good in your high horse
Nolan Reed
ive seen guys who have lifted for 10+ years natty and they are fucking huge. not manlets either.
Roids are scary desu. not to mention all the other shit you get with them.
better to be high bodyfat and strong and look big in clothes as a natty. or just lift 10 years
>trt exemption I'm not that guy, but I doubt he had "trt" in mind when he talked about steroids and 'being kings for a few years'...trt doesn't make you a king, it normalizes you. When we say 'steroids' we mean levels far above normal, above 200mgs or so.
Jayden Butler
>small balls >acne >mental issues >fucked up bloated gut >spots on your body >having to inject yourself with needles >not being able to maintain your body after coming off them (and you will have to eventually) >heart attacks etc
yeah sounds great
Cooper Myers
>jeff, zyzz, lazarov the cringe of the fitness industry
Andrew Perry
>Girls dont even know of those people. They are only mired here. They fucked multiple women, which is more than you. Oh wait youre a virgin >Girls dont like the roid look. They think its creepy. They would rather go for a high bodyfat bear mode natty guy. I guess girls at clubs are pretending thay they want to hang out with them. >If you even tell a girl you take steroids shes sickened Who tf cares, im sure you know how women think. You sound like one kek
Ethan Gutierrez
you forgot hairloss and having to donate blood and take ancillaries to combat the sides, and then the ancillaries have their own side effects lmao
Luke Ward
I always thought this too. Unless you are being paid for your body/athletic ability you have no reason to take roids. If you just take roids for fun you are mentally ill and retarded. If I see a obvious gymcel in my gym who is on roids I just feel sorry for them. You can make gains your entire life as a natural, whats the point on hopping on juice just to be known as the roider in the gym lol
Zachary Jackson
>moving the goalpost Ok lets see you shift it more
Justin Sullivan
>using virgin as an insult kek >what girls at clubs want.... they're one step away from being prostitutes, who cares
Jaxon Turner
What the fuck is a high inhib incel
Samuel Campbell
you're moving the goal post when you think therapeutic trt by a doctor to normalize you is the same as a guy abusing roids to be a "king for a few years" in the gym.
Oliver Morales
>small balls Will go back on pct >>acne Accutane >mental issues Le roid rage, proof or fuck off >fucked up bloated gut Hahaha you know nothing. Its hgh dumbfuck >spots on your body What spots, are you retarded? >having to inject yourself with needles So the truth came atlast, a fucking massive vagina. Lol >not being able to maintain your body after coming off them (and you will have to eventually) And this matters?? >heart attacks etc Proof or fuck off Dunno being a brainlet like you sound worse than using roids
Henry Young
>They fucked multiple women, which is more than you. Oh wait youre a virgin
Lmao dirty slags at festivals? i'm no stud but ive had plenty of sex in relationships with attractive girls, slayed 2 virgins myself.. how many has zyzz slayed, probably none 2bh.
>I guess girls at clubs are pretending thay they want to hang out with them. yeah they pose for a picture with the "wierd bodybuilder guy" and then fuck off. Its pretty funny when you think about it, all that dedication and all we get is the same 3 photos of zyzz and some club whore reposted again and again
>Who tf cares, im sure you know how women think. You sound like one kek
you should care since youre doing them? Why do i sound like a woman? lmao m8 roids or not id still smash your beta chin up kek
also self-prescribing TRT at over 300mgs is not "trt" it's steroids. having shit genetics is no excuse for abusing testosterone.
Tyler Long
No im not, go read it again you inbred. So are you gonna move it more?
Adam Sanders
yeah this too. thanks
>this much mental gymnastics
lmao idc what you do with your body, but dont pretend its better than being natty.
At higher % bodyfat and lifting natty you look just as big with clothes on, and girls prefer it when youre naked. No girl likes an autistic "ripped" roided bodybuilder, its universally considered a creepy thing
Bentley Hill
>Lmao dirty slags at festivals? i'm no stud but ive had plenty of sex in relationships with attractive girls, slayed 2 virgins myself.. how many has zyzz slayed, probably none 2bh. Nice projection on those girls, oh wait you think like a woman i guess you know rigjt. Theyre alpha and youre not you beta >yeah they pose for a picture with the "wierd bodybuilder guy" and then fuck off. Its pretty funny when you think about it, all that dedication and all we get is the same 3 photos of zyzz and some club whore reposted again and again The delusion of this post, and you have 0 women that gets near you lol. They have proof, you have none you virgim
>you should care since youre doing them? Why do i sound like a woman? lmao m8 roids or not id still smash your beta chin up kek I dont because i fuck different woman every other day unlike some man who understands woman like you, why are you transitioning? Kek
ok cool, now lets combat those sides >accutane wow very healthy long term use...sides include hair loss, dry and brittle skin that takes longer to heal
>hairloss take finasteride yay, finasteride is very healthy long term!
>gyno time to take chemotherapy drugs intended for women! yay
>blood pressure time to donate blood or take blood thinners lmfao...wow great
>infertility time to inject some HCG! hopefully it works, because in 40% of cases it doesn't!
not only are you pinning multiple times a week buy you need to take a whole bunch of ancillaries that all have their own sides....your body is toxic. And this is assuming you just take testosterone....if you take harsher orals or injectables you need even more drugs to combat the sides! WOOHOO
Jonathan Garcia
>hurr he was talking about TRT I know it! TRT MAKES YOU A KING IN THE GYM ! lmao, trt makes weak people normal. obviously he meant actual steroid abuse when he was talking about "steroids"
Jeremiah Hall
You talk like that because you know nothing and have no proof. Gtfo fit you retard fuckwit you're not worth everyones time
Isaac Wright
>Nice projection on those girls, oh wait you think like a woman i guess you know rigjt. >Theyre alpha and youre not you beta
Whiteknighting club whores? pitiful desu
>The delusion of this post, and you have 0 women that gets near you lol. They have proof, you have none you virgim
do you expect me to post pics of me and my girlfriend here? lmao you must be the virgin
>I dont because i fuck different woman every other day unlike some man who understands woman like you, why are you transitioning? Kek
Its not even what he said. Keep moving that goalpost retard
Jack Foster
As someone with very shit muscle genetics, I cycle steroids and try to keep gains. It's been more effective than natty lifting, where my newb gains pretty much ended after 1plate bench and about 120lbs of lean body mass. I keep more gains after each iteration as I learn more about pushing my limits and get better perspective on how to judge "base" size vs. on-cycle pump. I'll probably cruise once I hit 40. Or maybe I'll just accept getting smaller and hold onto staying strong as a long-term goal.
Ryan Davis
>know nothing and have no proof
>zyzz isnt dead
>bodybuilders dont have huge guts, shrunken balls and zits all over their backs
>Nice projection on those girls, oh wait you think like a woman i guess you know rigjt. so you've never been with girls at night-clubs/edm festivals/etc k
Henry Parker
>pointing out that steroids are unhealthy is trolling
keep coping lmao
Brody Lewis
He said: >Steroids are what weak willed men do because they want to pretend they are kings for a few years before they become nothing again. Rather than actually improving themselves in a way that will last. Nothing in that is about TRT, trt makes no one a "king for a few years", trt is for life and it normalizes you, you lost the argument. Back to the drawing board lil brainlet goblin.
Jordan King
actual trt only restores you to a level of something like a healthy 25yo, it doesnt make you superman
Noah Anderson
I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're 100% fishing.
Julian Perez
>wow very healthy long term use...sides include hair loss, dry and brittle skin that takes longer to heal Who said long term use? Also source on those sides. >>hairloss take finasteride >yay, finasteride is very healthy long term! Source on hairloss >>gyno >time to take chemotherapy drugs intended for women! yay Ummm so? Is that supposed to be just an insult? Lol >>blood pressure >time to donate blood or take blood thinners lmfao...wow great Source on that? >>infertility >time to inject some HCG! hopefully it works, because in 40% of cases it doesn't! Even long term roid use doesnt cause infertility tho fucking retard. Or you have source? Ill wait >not only are you pinning multiple times a week buy you need to take a whole bunch of ancillaries that all have their own sides....your body is toxic. And this is assuming you just take testosterone....if you take harsher orals or injectables you need even more drugs to combat the sides! WOOHOO How about the guys that pin once a week, 500 mg doesnt need ancillary shit. You wouldnt know because you're talking out of your ass.
Carson Cox
Nope trt is still taking steroids. Now go on, shift the goal more. You might win next retard
Camden Reed
He doesnt said except people who take it as trt tho
Hunter Morris
Zyzz is dead and? Do you have proof that roids killed him Also no shit roids can shrink balls, in other news water is wet. Hgh makes the gut bloated, hint:its not steroids you turbo tard
Adrian Thompson
Lets say you gain 20 on cycle, and lose 10 after cycle, thats a net gain of 10lbs. And of course youre going to lose muscle volume off cycle, nobody debates that. What were are debating is you saying all gains fall off of your body. Which im saying isnt the case. You will def keep some mucle gain off of a short test cycle, and if you train for strength, youll def keep a lot of strength, especially if you maintain correctly.
Jayden Butler
>source on sides everyone knows about wow you haven't done much research. hopefully your on low dose test otherwise you're gonna get some fun surprises down the road
>how do I read context?? your reading comprehension is shit if you think TRT qualifies for "making people into kings for a few years". He's talking about steroid abuse to get jacked like youtube celebs. Not some 60 year old guy recovering his lost sex drive with trt doses.
David Kelly
yeah no sorry if you do a proper PCT and keep lifting you'll keep most of your gains. the problem is PCT sucks and turns you into a woman who'd rather pound cupcakes and watch lifetime television than actually work out. many, many people fall into this cycle and it's why they lose all their gains post cycle
Caleb Morgan
I heard it put like this; when you come off cycle, thats when the real training begins.
Mason Sullivan
>has never done a real cycle yet thanks for the "tips" pct is for maintaining gains for 1-2months after cycle. 6months after your cycle those gains will be gone, doesn't matter if your pct is perfect. your roid gains will be replaced by whatever you could've made naturally in those 6months post cycle. Your body doesn't maintain shit it gained at supraphysiological levels.
Carson King
So those strength gains and your ability to lift heavier weights, it just disappears? Like your body and cns has never handled it? Just 100% gone? Am i understand you correctly?
Grayson Taylor
>strength gains your unnatural strenght gains will be replaced by whatever you could've made naturally that year. You might retain a very small advantage of strength, but it would be so insignificant it wouldn't be worth cycling. And you would notice the LOSS far more than the gain.
Losing 10lbs of muscle or 50lbs of strength gains is gonna be pretty big psychologically. Also reverting back to making slow-as-fuck natty gains is gonna also hurt you psychologically.
That's why guys who cycle once, usually cycle again and again and then stay on for life.
Cameron Walker
I've never taken roids before but you and the rest of this thread are convincing me I should go on a test cycle. It's clear you don't really have a clue what you're talking about and the roid heads are actually right.
Jayden Smith
>fucked up bloated That's insulin you brainletfaggot!
Tyler Martinez
Okay, so the strength gains from a cycle of test are negligable after an amount of time off cycle? And this is true for everybody? Regardless of post cycle training? This is the absolute truth even if someone uses 1 cycle to reach their natty limit? And this happens regardless of someones natrual hormone levels?
Asher Perry
There was a recent study that even 1 cycle gave you advantage over natties, even after you get off cycle. Something about cellular memory....
Cameron Reyes
Cant be true, user in this board said so.
Nathaniel Young
its negligible. go look at UFC fighters when they get caught cheating and have to go off roids, its pretty obvious
Justin Harris
>Cant be true, user in this board said so. Somebody must inform those researchers that user in the Jow Forums disagrees with their findings.
>even 1 cycle gave you advantage over natties, even after you get off cycle.
What's an example of an easy cycle to reap these gains ? I'm almost 30 and wouldn't mind a advantage to make up for the age gap with the youngsters.
Jason Nelson
>What's an example of an easy cycle to reap these gains ? I'm almost 30 and wouldn't mind a advantage to make up for the age gap with the youngsters. ask on /fraud thread
Jack Jenkins
500mg test e
Josiah Allen
>Doing a single raw test cycle
I know enough to not get tricked like that user
Kevin Campbell
Most of the people commenting in here have no idea WTF they are talking about because they have never used and/or have never come off for any period of time after using.
You WILL lose muscle after coming off. What you lose is what you don't train hard. You will not look the same but you don't have to look much different. Everybody has a different natty limit for every muscle group. Most people, 5-10 year natty lifters will never realize this limit for every single muscle group. You DO fall back onto your natty limit for every muscle group which you train to the max.
One cycle does not make you explode into a bodybuilding freak. Simple test cycles are not the same as the massive stacks which people who roid are generally associated with. Taking 500mg test E for 3-4 cycles is a great way to quickly build a foundation for natty lifting for the rest of your life with zero sides besides for maybe joint injury from advancing so quickly.
The greatest benefit of simple cycles is the fat burning. This is permanent. If you already have good genetics for face, frame and height and just let yourself go, a few cycles can negate 5-10 years of stuffing your face and not working out and you will have HIGHER natural test levels when you come off and PCT. It helps you get back into the swing of things which is all that most people need to climb out of a hole.
Stop being so closed-minded. Most people who roid are not pinning a gram of test stacked with tren, dbol and all of the other shit with nasty sides and long-lasting cardiovascular system damage. Chances are, you wouldn't even be able to pick them out of a crowd of healthy adults.
Julian Taylor
What exactly were you looking for? This is the most basic cycle and has zero sides. It's what most roiders do. Most don't stop after one cycle and it would be pointless for you to touch roids at all if that is your intention at 30 if you have already been lifting for a long time and are already lean.
Nathaniel Roberts
>Most of the people commenting in here have no idea WTF they are talking about because they have never used and/or have never come off for any period of time after using. Shut yo mouth faggot
Brayden Moore
>Secondly, getting to your "natty limit" is super fucken hard and requires dedication and skill you don't actually possess (otherwise you'd be there already after a few years of lifting), so when you remove the steroids your routine and work output won't be able to maintain those unnatural gains. Within 6months they'll be gone. no exceptions.
This is absolutely false, it's not that hard to maintain your gains with proper routine and diet. People who lose their gains have no idea what they're doing and should not have been on a cycle in the first place. It's not rocket science user.
Colton Thompson
Tren made me very low inhib. I don't think you'll regret 1 cycle
Eli Ward
Some people just like to get bigger than they would be natty. Get of your high horses. Its no cheating,no weak minded shit. I work harder than you, eat cleaner and watch my health more than you. >High inhib incel Why define yourself like that? Are you female? >Girls like bear mode natty more Cope. Been there,got laid regulary but since i started roiding attention from females went Up 100% >You need to take multiple suplements,which are toxic bullshit ,you can combat most sides by eating healthy ,having 200% dd of minerals and vitamins,and via smart adaptogenic usage
Xavier Russell
>my newb gains ended after 1 pl8 bench Holy shit you tremendous faggot
Aaron Brooks
I failed 5th rep at 140 on set 1, deloaded and failed again later. Got microplates and failed rep 5 set 2 at 138. Then passed 136, 137, and failed at 138. All while steadily gaining weight having started at about 140lb total weight. Had a DEXA scan and found I had less than 120lbs lean body mass (pic related) and should probably cut from 160 to 135. I had started progress with just the bar and had a couple failed sets/rollouts prior to that, but 140 was where I failed after a deload.
No, I cut and stuck with natty for a while after that.
Brody Parker
Useless basedboy faggot
Robert Hernandez
I solved my problem. gl with yours.
Xavier Peterson
Winner winner chicken dinner.
And idk after doing a cycle of tren over a year ago I'm still way more swole than I was before that and I had been lifting for years prior. I think I'm still beyond natty limits.
Juan Bennett
Nah, steroids to a weak willed person will make them look a little better, nothing special.
But steroids to a strong willed person? That's how you become a god.
