How screwed are we?

we were always screwed.

this planet was always doomed long before mankind arrived

colonizing space was always a pipe dream at best

"Atmospheric lensing" does not explain why the massive ball of light the earth revolves around disappears for people on one part of the earth and appears for those on another
I'm guessing you'd never even heard of the concept before you saw it in your pseudoscience channel. Much of what he says is just plain wrong

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Here we go again with another brainlet who doesn't actually read my posts. I'm not arguing from your model, i'm arguing from a flat earth model. On THIS model, the sun isn't a massive ball of light, and we don't revolve around it.

I'm not a fan of appealing to authority, but the way light works, and these phenomenon that gives the illusion that things go over an edge has been explained by actual atmospheric experts. youtube.com/watch?v=sWJdZXlPZb8

The way light works, the way the atmosphere works, the fact that on our model the sun is much smaller, the way that we process light, etc. I mean it's just not an argument. You could adhom it and call it pseudoscience if you want, you still haven't proven anything against my point.

I mean you might have a point if I was making the claim that the sun is a supermassive giant ball and we're some floating disc in space but nobody actually believes that, other than people dogwhistling about "the flat earth society" like it's anything more than a psyop to make alternative earth models look stupid.

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>On THIS model, the sun isn't a massive ball of light, and we don't revolve around it.
You've also given no actual explanation of how the sun works in your model
>"these phenomenon that gives the illusion that things go over an edge has been explained by actual atmospheric experts"
>Links back to his pesudoscience channel, presumably his only source of information, as "atmospheric experts"
I hate appeal to authority too, especially when litterally anyone can call themselves an "expert"

>The way light works, the way the atmosphere works, the fact that on our model the sun is much smaller, the way that we process light, etc. I mean it's just not an argument.
This was not a coherent sentence. Will you go into any detail about any of this? Can you do so without linking to another YouTube conspiracy theory video?

I mean when you just dismiss arguments what's the point? You're clearly not interested in a civil debate and in turn only bring more people to my side. We should just go back to complaining about roasties and normies desu senpai, and countering the trap thread degeneracy since you're clearly too emotional to handle civil discourse in this situation.

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we should invest in our own rocket and see for ourselves to be xonest phams

Jow Forums space project when

Extremely screwed. Consumer capitalism combined with growth based economics as the driving force behind the mass industrialisation of goods manufacturing, responsible for both the greatest material comforts humans enjoy and the inevitable death of our civilisation, holds such an enormous power over us we will never be able to shed forward in a democratic system to solve the fundamental problem of before it's too late.

Conservatives who are still unable to accept that climate change is real or that human industrial activity has a negative impact on the ecology of the planet are living proof that humans would rather keep the good things they have right now for guaranteed destruction of the planet than give up their bullshit ideology and promote the long-term survival of humanity.

>thread gets derailed by flat earth disinfo retard
use a different pic next time i guess

very, if we dont manage a thanos-like snap and wipe out half the population. fucking indians and asians making so much garbage and shit

You haven't made any arguments. All you've said is "our model is different! It all makes sense when you look at it our way!" Without going into any detail about how it actually works.

Again, I'll ask; how exactly does "atmospheric lensing" explain why I, a person on east coast USA, see the sun as having just risen in the east, while someone in, say, Hong Kong has just seen the sun set in the west and will not see it again for a little less than 12 hours?
This phenomenon is very simple to explain with a round-earth model. The earth rotates, blocking the sun. Occam's razor dictates that the hypothesis requiring the fewest assumptions is probably the correct one. Does your theory use fewer assumptions than the ever-so-simple round-earth timezone model?

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i feel over population will become an issue in the next 10 years
people need to stop having kids

>quoting occam's razor to a fucking flat earther

user, I agree with you but please - these are childish morons who would rather delude themselves into a dream of conspiracies than accept the responsibility that comes with observing facts. Conspiracy theorists argue on a fundamentally emotional level, they need their bullshit to be true because it's all that's keeping them together.

It's mainly an issue in Africa at this point. Every other population group is slowing it's birth rate. Africa, however is only increasing exponentially. Current models show the total population of the continent to exceed 5 billion by 2050

Soon. Getting closer...

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This isn't necessarily true, as Africa as a whole consumes an order of magnitude less natural resources than the West. While they do have an expanding population which is a bad thing, the extreme driving force behind waste creation is Europe and America, which consumes around about 2/3rds of the total resources produced on earth despite being 1/7th of the population.

The amount of consumption is not the issue. Much of Africa's population relies on shipments of resources from rich western nations to not fall into famine. In many areas there are too many individuals to feed with the amount of arable land available to grow food. So the issue becomes one of an artificially inflated population which will collapse if aid is ever cut off.

On the bright side we can enjoy the last 50 years we have on green earth.

>The amount of consumption is not the issue

Yes it is, consumption fuels demand which fuels industrial process which fuels environmental destruction.

Supplying Africa with food aid is politically expedient for the USA because it subsidises agriculture. The risk of famine in Africa is ever present and likely inevitable due to climate change destroying the potential for domestic agriculture before the investment in agricultural infrastructure even occurs.

Oh and also, a huge amount of Africa can be currently turned into arable farm land, adequate land is not the issue, it's always been a case of economics. In Africa, it's far more effective to grow cash crops like fruit, cocao and coffee as an export (which still results in poverty, just slightly less poverty than before). Investment in farming infrastructure in Africa is non existent because it doesn't suit western needs, simple as.

>how exactly does "atmospheric lensing" explain why I, a person on east coast USA, see the sun as having just risen in the east, while someone in, say, Hong Kong has just seen the sun set in the west and will not see it again for a little less than 12 hours?
Not him but i'm familiar with the flat earth stuff, the sun isn't high or bright enough or big enough for you to be able to see it that far away. In most flat earth models its much more localized and small. He's also right tho, atmospheric lensing can magnify the sun and cause it to appear under the horizon along with perspective.
>Occam's razor dictates that the hypothesis requiring the fewest assumptions is probably the correct one.
It looks flat so it is flat. Boom.
>Does your theory use fewer assumptions than the ever-so-simple round-earth timezone model?
It's far away so you can't see it anymore seems pretty simple to me.

>It's far away so you can't see it anymore seems pretty simple to me.
Aaah, that proves me wrong. Everyone knows stars can't be seen when they're far away- heeey, wait a second!

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>Everyone knows stars can't be seen when they're far away- heeey, wait a second!
False equivalency. Stars are far higher, but to a degree they work under the same system, when the firmament rotates around they dip off into the distance aswell.

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>It looks flat so it is flat. Boom.
this is only simple if you ignore literally everything we know about our day-night cycle, the tidal cycles, geographical locations in relation to each other, travel, technology reliant on satellites, the behaviour of light and shadows, astronomy, etc.
Every single one of those things requires elaborate and indefensible fictions to be created in order for them to be explained away.

So what you're saying I have to make a lot of assumptions based on the authority of others? Doesn't sound very Occams Razory to me.

What are you talking about m8 it doesn't get much more occam's razory than, based on accepting the observable reality of the world you live in, accepting the simple and shared truth that they all directly support rather than coming up with hundreds of conflicting, often physically impossible, and conflicting fantasies. That's as occam's razory as you can get.

Right, so you mean like how its observably flat, no curvature is detectable, even up to 300,000 feet where even mainstream scientists say "You're not high enough to the see curve", no motion is detectable, etc? Yeah you're right that is pretty occams razory. When it comes to people who believe in alternative earth models, they tend to be extreme Empiricists who abide by Occams Razor, very VERY literally.

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Does this make me an empiricist
What even is that

Global warming is real and it's all WHITE PEOPLE'S fault! Yeah the 10 most polluted rivers in the world are in Asia and Africa but something something colonialism

Pay your emission taxes, DUUUUUDE!

Doubt it, most people tend to fall under the "rationalist" category in these types of debates. The biggest and greatest example of an Empiricist would be Nikola Tesla who famously said, "Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality." which a lot of people who don't believe in the current mainstream globe model love to quote.

Pic related. It's basically just an extreme viewpoint difference, and disdain for authority.

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>In order to make the case for flat earth you consistently have to ignore things that were said one post ago.
This is why it isn't a real position user. Even attempting to devil's advocate for it is hilariously futile because it forces you to act incredibly stupid.
No not the thing you're making up, silly, the observable traits like: seasons, the day night cycle, rides, astronomy, satellites, air travel, sea travel (this is a great one, there are plenty of sites that track commercial ship locations in real time), Cartography and the challenges it faces with accurate representation on a flat plane, any technology even moderately reliant on satellites such as cellphones and GPS.

Those are all simple things that exist in our world. They all share the fact that they all rely on heliocentrism and the globe earth. all these require complex re-explaining.
(Also "no motion is detectable"is a weird thing to say when 90% of astronomy is literally just documenting our motion)

Isn't this just separating two codependent facets of scientific discovery into separate schools of thought as if they were opposing viewpoints? Genuine question because the separation of those two things doesn't make sense to me

You have way too much free time to
troll each other about flat earth...

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We need to stop the world from having children. Otherwise our technology and comfort is threatened.

>stop having children
Fok off enon!

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I think it's more like a thought experiment? Like I'm engaging in a really stupid but fun version of sparring

>he actually believes in a flat earth

Are you brain damaged, perchance?

>seasons
The weather changing proves the earth is round how?
>Day and night cycles
The localized tinier sun moving farther away out of view to another part of the earth proves the earth is round how?
>rides
What did he mean by this? You mean how you can see the more of the horizon on roller coasters and such? I mean I could show you pictures from mountains, skyscrapers, airplanes, high altitude weather ballons, the redbull jump with lens correction that show a perfectly flat horizon, which should not happen on an earth with 8 inches per miles square. As you rise up the horizon should dip away from you, not constantly correct back into a flat horizon.
>astronomy
Lights in the sky prove what?
>air travel
Literally how?
>sea travel (this is a great one, there are plenty of sites that track commercial ship locations in real time)
Because you wouldn't be able to track things on a Flat Earth? You okay dude?
>Cartography and the challenges it faces with accurate representation on a flat plane
Making accurate maps has always been a problem, still is in fact. What is that supposed to prove?
>any technology even moderately reliant on satellites such as cellphones and GPS
Most of what you see in the sky that's claimed to be "sattelites" or things of that nature are generally high altitude weather balloons and solar powered craft. Sattelites, the ISS, etc should not be as visible as they are with their reported size and distance away from the earth.

As for GPS, most GPS on ground infrastructure, and the rest is again by the high altitude aircraft, and even then there's faults and GPS deadzones, which should not exist if there were truly hundreds if not thousands of sattelites around the earth all the time.
>Those are all simple things that exist in our world.
Yeah I agree
>They all share the fact that they all rely on heliocentrism and the globe earth
But they really don't do they?
Nice argument buddy, how will I ever recover?

Do you actually believe that the Earth is flat? Because then I will know that you are brain damaged and it won't matter what arguments I come up with because you won't accept them.

These adhominem attacks don't help your side buddy. But no i'm not a flat earther, I just believe there are serious flaws with the mainstream model.

I'm hoping to 2029 April 13th asteroid hits and wipes out a good few million people, it'll only cause regional disaster if it does strike the earth but it better than nothing.

Name just one (1) flaw.

I just argue with flat earthers about the logistics of their beliefs. Don't they think a massive black ops UN army sits around the entire edge of the flat earth, specifically to stop people from taking pictures?

Curvature isn't detectable based on current mathematical data.
No, that's a bit of a strawman, most flat earthers don't believe in an Edge either.

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srs, what is your alternative to our current model? You keep saying you have 'problems', but you don't list them

*We need to stop Africans, Asians and Americans from having children

>No, that's a bit of a strawman, most flat earthers don't believe in an Edge either.
Can you PLEASE elaborate more in your posts. Your posts are scraping by on minimal. What do they believe then, if there's no edge?

Hi Mr Vikernes

>Curvature isn't detectable based on current mathematical data.
Mate just look at any of the TONS AND TONS of photos we have of the curvature of the Earth. Lol how much of a brainlet are you?

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My alternative? I'm not sure, i'm more leaning towards the earth is much bigger than it's reported to be, not necessarily that it's flat per se. Hiding more countries, more resources, etc. Things of that nature, but I couldn't really say for sure.
What do I believe in? Oof, I guess see above. Easily faked by government institutions, imagine my shock I wouldn't trust an organization run by (((Them)))

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I don't know, man. I'm somehow scared of the bloodmoon. Shit looks fucking ominous and I spiral into paranoid thoughts of the moon hitting our planet.

>Easily faked
Presumably you don't believe Donald Trump exists either then? I'm going to assume you've never seen him in person and have only ever seen photos. THEY COULD BE FAKED!

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We're this screwed.

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I actually have seen him in real life, and there's far more credible evidence of him existing from thousands and millions of various different sources. Bit different than an organization run by Jews with equipment and data we have no way of verifying or testing ourselves.

>Hiding more countries, more resources
The Earth being larger than reported is an interesting concept, but again I bring up practicality. Wouldn't powerful nations like China and the US detect new lands with global satellite sweeps, and detect them? Then send in expeditions? I find it strange if there's just some land sitting in the pacific that no one has bothered to reach yet. Wouldn't a larger Earth also interfere with intercontinental flight times?

I think it's admirable to challenge the status quo, but I just cannot fathom why we wouldn't have found it.

Also, the Jews? I get it, they're rich and they own some companies, and some are liberals, but I don't see why they would fake the model of the Earth and/or hide its actual size. I get that you're conspiratorial, but at some point don't you have to ask why? Why would they hide it, but for no other reason than you thinking they are devious?

A hidden part of earth would make an interesting SCP though

I think you're underestimating how much larger I mean it is. I'm pretty confident, based on curvature data the earth is extremely supermassive, i'm not talking about we're on a bigger planet, i'm talking about we're on something so big and insanely large, and most of modern science is meant to help spread the illusion that this localized part of existence is all that exists and the only way out is up. I would disagree.
>Wouldn't powerful nations like China and the US detect new lands with global satellite sweeps
As I described sattelites here
No, because they aren't orbiting the earth from space in my view.
>Then send in expeditions?
I believe they have in the past. I suggest you look into Richard Byrd new land expeditions, and a book called "Lands Beyond the poles".
>Wouldn't a larger Earth also interfere with intercontinental flight times?
No because our localized part of the earth looks like pic related. Very similar to I suppose flat earth models, but even this map has some flaws I could pick apart, but as far as I can tell its the most accurate thing we got.
>Also, the Jews? I get it, they're rich and they own some companies, and some are liberals, but I don't see why they would fake the model of the Earth and/or hide its actual size.
Promoting a nihilistic model of existence helps subvert and control the masses, specifically whites, but the other big reason as I said would be more land.

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Definitely not fucked if you're a rich fag. Humans to make up for there destroyed world will make virtual worlds were you can exist in just like in real life. The only difference is that you will be omnipotent within this new reality and be able to start a family with AI programs which are completely customizeable to your liking. This will obviously be very expensive to purchase and the life support system that will be used will require actually robotic AI to take care of your body while you're unconscious which will probably cost somewhere around 100k+. This will probably be available withing 10-20 years

Stay fucked poorfags

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Well, if you're proven right and the veil is lifted, I'll venmo you 5 bucks.

a loooot

theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-desert

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