Why is a bro split seen as a bad thing? it makes going to the gym way more efficient...

Yeah but wouldn't you have less volume since if your arms would get tired if you're doing it all in one day?

That only matters if both recovery and workout capacity were infinite.

>it makes going to the gym way more efficient.
Other way round in my experience

Splits took me twice as long to recover from on anything but heavy leg days where they're equal with full body. In terms of volume nothing beats full body

That said, splits vs full body are one of the things I'll never argue about with anyone because I've discovered it's almost always subjective and preference based on the person, the lifestyle and more.

tl;dr 100% of my experience says full body is way more efficient but I'm flexible in when I can attend the gym and rest so I have the best of both worlds and people without that might be better on splits

I also find people arguing for either have usually only tried the alternative method early on in their career and for a short period of time. I tried splits for more than half a year half way into gym life, and pretty controlled and intensively, so I feel I know what I'm talking about

ppl once a week would be a brosplit. ppl twice a week is legit. its implied you are doing it twice a week if you say ppl.

Rate my routine
Monday: back
Deadlift 5x3
Clean 5x3
Bbrow 10 set of 20 (rest paus)
Shruggs 5 x 15
Preacher curls 5x 15
Facepulls

Tuesday chest
10 sets of 20 benchpress restpaus
5x 10 overhead extentions

Wednsday legs
Squats 10 sets of 20
Legcurls 5x15

Thursday arms
Chinups and closegripbench

Friday shoulders
Clean and pushpress 10 x20
Side and front raises plus facepulls

Exercise and hypertrophy are hard topics to make judgmenets on based on the critics or analysis of a few researchers.
For example, up until recently it was thought that one set was just as good as 3 sets for muscle growth, and that only recently have we started to see an advantage for higher volumes.
The problem here is that the vast majority of the studies done on volume and its effect in muscle growth only measure muscles and don't take into account accumulated inflammation, and thus higher volumes pretty much always have the upper hand in total muscle size gains.
The BIG issue here is that ofc your arms are gonna get bigger from inflammation, but that does not mean your muscle fibers are growing in size, it quite literally just means that your body is coping as much as possible with the workload and inflating your muscles with water and metabolites so they grow.
Contractible muscle fibers don't actually hypertrophy with accumulated inflammation, they just swell with fluids.
Research has shown over and over and over again that in EXPERIENCED and even in beginners, higher frequency is ALWAYS better than lower frequency because we now have a legit direct marker for muscle growth, which is MYOFIBRILLAR MUSCLE PROTEIN SYNTHESIS, which cannot be confused with whole body protein synthesis, or even regular muscle protein synthesis(which can be a conjunction of mitochondrial, myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic).

For example this study shows that training a muscle 5x a week is superior to 2x a week.
Previous research has also shown that 2x a week is significantly superior to once a week(which almost no one does since brosplits are structed so that muscles get hit indirectly at least twice a week for the most part).
bayesianbodybuilding.com/high-resistance-training-frequency-enhances-muscle-thickness-resistance-trained-men/

There's also reason to believe that in caloric deficits higher frequency is better because it upregulates exercise induced anabolism

>recovery and workout capacity were infinite.
You're onto something user, if there was a way to increase these...

That's why bro splits are sub-optimal for natty lifters.

S-sauce?

There's a whole lot of IFS in that post, retard. The point is that while theoretically they technically could get enough volume, they fucking don't.

>literally only exercising a muscle group once a week

It’s extremely inefficient. You can train muscles more than that and make progress faster than that. It only starts to make sense with extremely advanced lifters, which fucking no one on Jow Forums is.

bro, your bro spilit is very bro, bro.

>Serratus Anterior day:
classic

sauce

that's not a bro split then

The problem with bro-splits is when life gets in the way and you have to miss a day, your entire weeks routine goes out the window....you can't just go into the gym the next day and do your shoulders, because now its leg day, and tomorrow is arm day.

At least with a Upper/Lower or Full Body routine if you miss a day you can roll it over very easily, and you've always got every muscle groups protein synthesis running high.

Basically bro-splits are far too rigid for my liking.

Because there are plenty of meta-reviews about both frequency and periodization that are superior in strength and size gains. You limit yourself in frequency and periodization when you bro-split. In the end, everything works, it's all about effectiveness/efficiency in when comparing

Imagine being such a brainlet that you can't even fathom the concept of just starting off with the day you missed

That and inefficient. Besides the problem of only focusing on each targeted body part once a week, it's just inefficient for my time. Five fucking days a week? Is this shit serious? I was making much better gains than all the brosplitters just doing a fullbody beginner program like SS, which is only 3x a week.
Not to mention that only hitting each body part once a week and beating the absolute shit out of it when you get to it means that it takes much longer for recovery to occur, you experience DOMS and other issues for longer because the lack of frequency means you don't get used to it as quickly, etc.

Sometimes I think about all the noobs who probably gave up on lifting because they just took the gymbro's advice and did a 5-day brosplit from the start like everyone else, and gave up because going in every day of the work week and beating themselves to a pulp and getting constant aches and soreness wasn't enticing. I'm sure a lot of those dudes might've stuck with it had they known there's a better way.

....then your routine goes to complete shit, hence why nobody on a brosplit ever rolls over their routine, there's too many days required per week to even do that

1 missed day on a brosplit throws everything out of whack

Have you ever met a brosplitter? Nobody does that. Monday is chest day. Monday MUST BE CHEST DAY. It cannot be delayed until Tuesday to make up for a skipped workout. The daily order is sacred

Fuck the grinch. That green ass bitch ass nigger I hate him so much

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>30-40 minutes at the gym
Ask me why i know that you're weak faggot

why the fuck is Monday ALWAYS chest day?

Anyone here that claims to lift for aesthetics should be brospliting. "Efficient" plans like ppl are going to leave you with oversized muscle groups like the chest. Aesthetics take time.

lots of anons googling grinch porn this morning

If weekly volume is equated but your rest period is too long (which 7 days is, optimal is 2-3 days) your level of performance drops down to where you started before you fatigued your muscle, effectively limiting your muscle growth.

Too frequent hampers muscle growth because you do not allow your muscle to recover

Too unfrequent hampers muscle growth because you do not stimulate your muscle enough to force adaption

This is one of the fundamentals. Brosplits stop working and make you plateau, especially as a natural lifter, because you cannot stimulate your muscle to adapt anymore because of a too low frequency. In the early stages you are going to grow because the stimules is enough, in the end your rest is too long and prevents you from gaining progress.

Retard

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What about PPLPPLx?

what kind of routine would you suggest?

chest day is every day bro

w-woh

you should post more dude

fit will hate you but if this shithole needs to be shaken up

Ppl is not a bro split per se because you have a frequency of 2 times a week per muscle group
A bro split is 1 group 1 time a week which is shit in terms of frequency and probably volume depending on your sets

PPLxPPL is fine and if you can sustain it, in my opinion the best routine for muscle gains. I ran PLPxPLP in the past and I grew the fastest and was the strongest. I now run UxLxUxLx and I don't plateau but I'm nowhere near a strong as before.

As I mentioned, you have to make sure that there are no more than 2 - 3 rest days between muscle groups. PPLxPPL ensures that.

So I would suggest a routine that you find appealing but prevents you from not hitting the same muscle group every 4 days. Any program that hits your muscle group only 1 time per week instantly goes into the trash.

Check out: SS stronglifts, Madcow 5x5, PHUL, German Volume Training, Upper Lower, Push Pull Legs, 5/3/1 Jim Wendler, Conjugate, Linear Progression , Westside Barbell, Bulgarian, Sheiko.

Pick something you like and do it. Don't be too autistic, there is not one magical program that is going to give you all the gains. They all work, you need to find one where you are comfortable with and stick to it for some time.

PPL
Upper/lower
Full body(prioritizing weaker muscle groups).
All of those work.

So fullbody every other day with one exercise for every muscle group seem to be best option.

Thats what I do now, and I think it is the best for a a natural. I've tried all other routines (bro, PPL, PPLPPL, ULUL) but full body 3-4x a week is making me my best gains

Who is this semen terminator?

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bayesianbodybuilding.com/optimal-program-design/

The final red pill.
The majority of the "muscle" gains one gets after getting into a new type of training program, is inflammation induced and not actual muscle fibers growing, but just muscles swelling from the muscle damage.
When one person loses weight on a "cut", most if not all of the perceived loss in muscle is not actual muscle loss but just loss of fluids in the muscles, which might make them look smaller.
This is why when people are on a long or drastic cut, when they "refeed" their muscles get fuller which improves one's looks even more and makes one look actually leaner and more jacked.

All of the studies promoting higher training volumes and disregarding training frequency pretty much ignore the inflammation response in the muscles, which is a huge thing.
Try and do 40 sets of curls and extensions in one single day.
Your arms are gonna blow up more than 1" in less than 2 hours, and you are still gonna have some fluid retention from that workout after a few days.
This is more than enough to completely skew study results and make it seem like incredibly high volume training is superior, when in fact it isn't specially if the volume isn't distributed well throughout the week.

Natties need to train often, it's just how it is.

Do you do some proven routine or just do one exercise for 3-4 sets for chest, back, shoulders, quads, hams, bis, tris, calfs and abs?

This is good, but very time consuming. I take around 2 hours to complete a fullbody routine compared to a bro split.

Fullbody 3x a week is far superior to bro splits tho, so i guess its worth it.

England is my city

how's this split? I'm trying to hit everything at least twice a week

Chest&Tris
Back&Bis
Shoulders&Legs
x
Upper
Lower
x

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do less sets per bodypart then?
that or shorten rest times and reduce the load on your last few sets on each exercise/muscle group.

No fucking clue, but it's true. Back when I was going to a uni gym before I assembled my home gym, I always made sure that Monday was always a rest day for me, because I didn't want to have to wait for a fucking bench to be open when I needed to bench press.

2 hours 3x a week really isn't that much at all. Especially when compared to a brosplit, where each workout might be shorter, but you're going like 5 fucking days.

Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel?

this kind of bodypart weekly split makes no sense, why won't people just train what they wanna train when they want to train?

how does it make no sense? i get to train every body part twice a week and splitting it up this way allows me to go for strength on the UL days and also to add some accessories in the 3 other days.
im just trying to get other people's opinions. im doing this routine because im doing something that feels right to me.