Guys who are lean look better shirtless

>Guys who are lean look better shirtless
>Guys who are strongfat look better with a shirt on
Are these true statements? I'm pretty fucking lean but look kinda skinny with a shirt on.

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Yes

Basically, as I see it, your whole Jow Forumsness journey is you being scared of cutting and looking small or being scared of continuing your bulk and looking fat

The dog fuckers aren't even subtle anymore.

White women fucking disgust me

it's statements like these that's causing the browning of america

no, if you wear shirts that arent oversized you will look way better lean with and without clothes

white girls fuck dogs

>tfw medium clothing compliments my slim frame and 29" waist
>tfw i'm 6'2" and not a manlet, so it looks like a boy's shirt when I lift my arms up

Life is suffering

If you actually get strong, you’ll look big with or without a shirt. Despite what Jow Forums DYELers tell you. And most of them don’t lift or don’t know what they are doing they just do ss memes.

This only applies if your above 5’8” ish. If your not, you’ll never be big except in pictures.

Typically you have to get to 200lbs + with abs, which is why you have to be like 5’9” + to have the frame to be able to gain muscle.

It should take about 2 years to get to 200lbs + at 10-15%
You should be able to bench 315, deadlift 500.

For the natural Jow Forumszen, yes.
I'm living this dilemma right now. As I'm approaching 10-11% BF I'm starting to look really good without my shirt but also I'm DYEL with my shirt on.
I think I'll cut for another 2-4 weeks and start lean bulking again.

I wear tight ass shirts and look kinda big but they're really fucking tight and look kind of tryhard. I'm only 150lbs but about like 10-11%bf tho

yeah thats a whole new issue, finding clothes that fit well without looking like a tryhard faggot.

>see attractive woman you have no chance with
>start hurling insults

Insecurity cope

Don't you mean stoping it?

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Yes the Natty's dilemma. I've accepted looking kinda smallish with a shirt on. I feel alot better in the 10-13% body fat range. And being naked i you true form so I'd rather have that look good

strongfat mogs both

Duh that's obvious

First one is true. Second one isn't. You're underestimating lean face.

If it's hot where you live, stay lean year round
If it's cold where you live, stay ~15% BF
If it's both, good luck charlie

30% bf here. Form fitting obviously looks terrible on a marshmallow like me but baggy clothes look like an overgrown baby. At what point in fat loss should I start to care about clothes? Right now it seems pointless as a shit body is a shit body.

>fat
>better

pretty much, yes.

>strongfat looks bad without a sh--

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You can be pretty fuckin light and still look awesome in a tanktop lean. Not skelly mode, but ottermode to rippedmode for sure.

Honestly builtmode in a tank makes you look like a chick from Wisconsin

Absolute unit. Teach me your ways grizzly

Yes its true i barely look strongfat with a shirt. I feel like i look like a fit guy that should have abs but i have absolute shit ab genetics.

Yea, I like how I look better at 75kg (165lbs). My gf is way more keen on me if I'm like 85kg(187lbs) which is about is much fat as I can hold and still have a flat stomach, fuck all ab definition.
Thing is I don't even feel as good when I'm that weight, at 75kg I feel sharper and way hornier. Anyone else get this?

depends on how much mass you have. You can be lean and still large.

depends on if you have gyno or not

That's why you cut/bulk with the seasons and eventually you look great either way.

Yeah, it's true. Just look at Jeff Cavaliere. Looks bretty gud shirtless, but when he has a shirt on, he just looks like a typical guy with the only exception being his biceps sticking out.

When you're natty, you have to choose between looking muscular in clothes or looking muscular shirtless. You can't have both without roids. And obviously if you just go full bloatlord you'll just look like a typical fat guy.

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Cutting/bulking as a natty is the biggest meme ever propagated

yea, but keep in mind, if youre ripped youll look good shirtless and alone, but if theres anyone next to you thats bigger he will absolutely mog you.

I don't know what your standards for muscular are, but it's absurd to say that most people who are visibly muscular are on roids. Come on dude

>women would rather fuck dogs than men
>women would rather project their maternal instincts onto dogs than fuck men to produce children
only a matter of time before dog marriage is legalized

the point being WITH CLOTHES ON it can be quite hard to tell. All that definition doesn't mean shit when it's masked under clothes.

This is why I think the sweet spot is in the lower teens, around 12-14% bodyfat. Lean enough to make out some ab definition while still having some natural padding to look bigger.

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Being strongfat is overrated. You will get more mires being lean, and having good arms. Looking good with a shirt on will only get you noticed by other men 95% of the time.

>with a shirt on
Key wording here. The issue is that there are very few situations where people are going to see you without a shirt. Only exception is at a beach/pool, really. Not arguing for "builtfat" though.

What's wrong, can't get ripped batty? Cope some more.

What matters in clothed situations is FACIAL AESTHETICS

There is NO fucking reason to deliberately not be lean.
>muh I'm harder to kill than Jeff Cavaliere
Keep coping Rippetards

Tailor your shirt for 10 dollars brainlet

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Too much fat lowers libido and energy, try and google it.

Guess I'm fugged

Only applies if you're a basic slob who wears clothes that don't fit and dresses like shit all the time. Lean wins as soon as you're in style.

Exactly.

This board is all about raising T and people defend the most estrogenic thing in the universe, being a lardass.

Sometimes I think we don't want to make it.

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im the same weight/bf. i can only wear slim fit smalls because any normal shirt is tight around my chest and just drapes down and i look stupid. i like being slim but i hate how hard it is to find clothes

>stay at home dog mom
>person who stays at home and does nothing all day

Wow, really shooting for the stars there you fucking waste of oxygen fuck I'm so mad right now fucking hell

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I look better with a shirt on since I have twistable acne scars all over my body.

>this
i went to a waterpark with my friends recently and i broke out on my upper back pretty bad right beforehand. it sucks that all this effort will go to null because of some random acne

>but when he has a shirt on
That's why he is always shirtless

this. what kind of retard would wear a kids shirt just to look aesthetic

This but unironically. Cut/bulk cycles while natty are a literal waste of time. Just maintain and continue lifting.

>builtmode
What exactly does this look like?

Yup.

This is how I feel every time someone uses the phrase "wage slave".

uhh, think you're forgetting one major situation there user. I can't blame you if you're a wizard though.

back to r9k

What's wrong with being a stay-at-home mom now? Taking care of the house the children etc, /properly/ taking care, is a full time job.

me on the left

The golden rule is:
>Big
>Lean
>Natural
You can only pick 2

>someone is happy with their dog and I hate them for it.
What exactly went wrong in your life? I am not saying you can not see her in a critical light but you are guaranteed an incel with no hopes of losing your virginity any time soon if you don't become a better person

kek

wagie cope

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Are you thick or being retarded on purpose? If you are already in that situation then you're already good to go regardless. We're obviously talking about the concept of initial attraction upon meeting someone.

> Looking good with a shirt on will only get you noticed by other men 95% of the time.

I fail to see the problem

back to work, wagie

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> upper back acne
> random

Right........

> parasite logic

I don't subscribe to the straw on the right of course. But if you don't work you are leeching on -someone-, probably a close relative or friend that can't or won't get rid of you. Your "full life" is essentially behaving like a malignant tumor.

>wagies don't leech off both their employers and costumers

>not being a wageslave means I have no source of income besides leeching off someone else

When are people going to stop being so black and white? I run my own business and work when I went to get money when I want. Wagies wake up the same time every day to come in to work when other people want them to. See the difference? Wagies are cattle to be herded.

>dog mom

Aka owner of a poorly behaved dog

this. traps are the key. if you have big traps and wear a fitting t shirt you look like a god.