Thoughts on stronglifts 5x5? Sorry if this has been talked about a million times ctrl+f got me nothin...

I'm doing 5x5 and it's the first weight lifting program I've ever done. It's been great and I've been getting stronger which is very exciting but I plan on only doing it for three months and then I'll switch to something else.

All linear progression programs are bullshit unless you start with no weight at all on the bar, are fat, are roiding, or are eating the 5000 kcal idiocy that rippetoe wants you to.
It's an okay starting program, but like all LP programs you'll stall quite fast and have to either move on to something more reasonable, or completely ignore the "increase weight each workout" nonsense.

How's the aesthetics part of it, I got skinny ass arms and want to gain them

Strong lifts was copied by a used car salesman. Do SS, it’s an actual legit program. Read the book.

Rows are terrible for strength training, they should be treated as an auxiliary for volume work. Power cleans are more beneficial to a beginner than rows.

Pull-ups, lying tricep extensions, rows, and curls should be your only accessories. The main lifts will take a lot out of you when the weight gets heavy.

What if I care about aesthetics more than strength but only have a barbell. I only chose SL over SS because of the volume. Yes am retard

if you want to train for muscle size then you should try to increase "time under tension" for your lifts. usually 10-12 slow, controlled lifts for around 45 seconds.
problem is you won't be increasing your lifts often and it gets boring. just train strength.

They’re the same volume though, 5x5s.

Aesthetics don’t come until you have lifts that warrant them. You’ll never build a chest benching 135, or have massive traps if you’re not deadlifting 315 for reps.

Just get that aesthetic shit out of your head if you can’t lift respectable weights. You’ll only end up looking like a slim twinkie who looks like he needs to eat a hamburger.

There are two types of lifters. Those who start or with a shitty split pushing no weight for sets of 12 and never get anywhere. And those who put in the hard work at the beginning by lifting heavy ass weight to build a foundation.

Take your pick. But there isn’t a single dude out there with a respectable physique who wasn't squatting 3 times a week in the very beginning.

That makes sense, just looking for the most efficient way to get to my goals

If you only care about aesthetics and not strength then you are going to be disappointed, nothing you do for 3-5 months will make you look aesthetic

I know this, but I want the most efficient routine tailored towards aesthetics. I know aesthetics and strength go hand in hand. I'm sure ill look better doing x routine for 6 months compared to doing y routine for 6 months

Let me offer a controversial viewpoint for you, since all you've gotten so far is a circle-jerking "if you don't do 5x5 and literally nothing else you're a softie who is never gonna make it".

The following link is required reading for you:
theptdc.com/2018/03/trainers-guide-building-muscle/

Go on, it will take no more than 20 minutes. (But bookmark it 'cuz you'll want to reread it repeatedly).

In a nutshell, as long as you're doing at least 10 reps a week "close-to-failure" for each muscle group, eating at least 0.75 g of protons, and eating enough cowries that you're not feeling like shit and sleeping soundly, you'll grow. It seems like it might take forever, but if you stick to it, 10 lb in one year is the low-end for how much you will grow. Imagine it's start of summer 2019 and you weigh at least 10 lbs more than you do now.

The 5x5 program is easy since it takes the over-analysis out of it, you're doing sufficient work to trigger the necessary stimulus to grow. So do this program while you research other programs. (Human beings have only limited bandwidth. It is everyone's hope on this board that you find lifting and fitness fulfilling enough to make it a fulltime hobby, but not everyone is like that.) To give you food for thought, many people prefer closer to 8 to 12 reps; if you're learning to squat, I personally don't think 5 reps close to death is a good way to get form down.
This is not to say you shouldn't be busting your ass, however.

Now I await the inevitable unemotional, "scientifically informed" responses to my statements.

>massive traps
>deadlifting 315

My seids

I see so essentially as long as I meet these stipulations then I'll see good result. Thanks for this I will continue 5x5

More volume = stalling earlier and more often. I fucked with it knowing this to expirement, so past a certain point with lifts I decided I was gonna drop to 4 sets, then 3 sets, to continue linear progression. Wide grip rows with elbows out brings in more traps, narrow grip with elbows in brings in more lats. Switched to Phraks GSLP to keep my own LP going

>They’re the same volume though, 5x5s.
SL is 5x5 for all lifts except 1x5 for DL, SS is 3x5 for all except 1x5 for DL and 5x3 for clean
> Squatting 3x/week for a respectable physique
Also not necessary, GSLP has it 2x and that's fine

I tried it for a while but desu i found it was way too reliant on the barbell for me. Go to a gym with only one so hogging it for a full workout rather than just one compound each workout made me feel like a twat.
If i had a home gym i'd go back to it though.

>5x3 for clean
Well shit I've been doing SS wrong

Yeah but now I include those 5 exercises into 1 workout by using 3x8. Focusing on full body hypertrophy instead 5x5 strength.

Informative. Nice one bro, thanks.

What's everyone's thoughts on a strengths/aesthetics hybrid of heavy 5x5 compound lifts (ie bench) to start the session with, then some burnout, 3x8-10 accessories for the rest of the session? (ie incline chest press, flys, tricep work etc)

It's what I do now and I'm enjoying the variation and feel like i'm making great gains in both departments.

This is the way to go

Sounds retarded

personally for me, my arms got mired most when i had been doing SL for 5 months even though i felt like i didn't really train arms. However, this is not a bodybuilding program

Still made good gains, right?

its a pretty solid beginner routine, but for some reason le redits hate it now

If you sit all day, you'll need to increase ab stability and strength, keep your hips and hanmies stretched on rest days.

The greatest program of all time. If you want to be big and strong, which if you have any semblance of testosterone, should be your goal, 5x5 is the only way to go.

why is everyone i've seen who does 5x5 so DYEL

jesus this shit scares me away from doing the program

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Peak Physique

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Another Godly Body

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It's basically just SS but for people who don't want to read. Personally I prefer SL's use of rows over cleans, but with everything else I prefer SS.

Especially the part where SL insists you NEED to start with just the bar. This is fucking retarded unless you're literally auschwitz-tier or a woman. You should start at whatever weight you can do with good form. If I can start benching at 95 lbs with good form, I should do that instead of just the 45 lb bar. Because otherwise I'm just wasting my time for like 3-4 weeks. Obviously more-so with squats/deadlifts.

>You’ll never build a chest benching 135, or have massive traps if you’re not deadlifting 315 for reps.
So that's why my chest and arms are small and my traps are big

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I thought SL starts you off at a certain percentage of your 5rm

The reason I think 5 reps is better for beginners is because maintaining good form is paramount, especially early on when learning how to properly do the lifts and get the muscle memory and all that. The issue with higher-rep sets is that form tends to break down toward the end. So a novice might end up training positive motor patterns for the first half of the set, and then sketchy bad motor patterns for the 2nd half. Form is going to be more likely to break down at the end of longer sets.

I get why some people prefer 8-12 rep sets because this makes it easier to get more volume overall, but I think this is something that should be held off on until after someone has at least done a few months on a program like SS to learn the ropes and exhaust noob gains.

Get your Jewish bullcrap out of here schlomo

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>why is everyone who does a beginner program DYEL
gee, I fucking wonder

Nope, unless Medhi changed that.

>The reason I think 5 reps is better for beginners is because maintaining good form is paramount, especially early on when learning how to properly do the lifts and get the muscle memory and all that. The issue with higher-rep sets is that form tends to break down toward the end.

That's retarded and ass backwards.
They don't get enough practice to do them correctly with so few total weekly reps
Doing them heavily means that when they inevitably break down under heavy load it will be a fucking catastrophe.

There's a reason why they start people off with calisthenics and a basic high rep type scheme and only OCCASIONALLY dip into low rep low set stuff.

>Aesthetics don’t come until you have lifts that warrant them.
Especially for natty bros

>logo features man in snatch setup
>snatches not part of program

why would they do this

who do i stop looking like a dyel on a beginner program and progress to an intermediate program

i feel like im going so slow

>Tricep extensions & Curls
Both jewish exercises

I did it a couple years ago and got stronger. I moved to a more intermediate routine. Right now I'm two months into my first test cycle and I've basically been running 5x5 again. But I'm not into bodybuilding/looking in the mirror, I lift to become stronger. I'm not fat, visable abs.

Must have been changed then, cause it started me on
>squat 105 lb
>bench 70 lb
>row 65 lb
>ohp 45
>deadlift 145

I agree with you. If a noob can't do 12 in good form they should lower their weight.

If you're awesome, great, you can pull off doing 5 heavy reps.

In the end though, hypertrophy isn't going to be different between a well-trained person lifting 12 to near-failure or 5 to near-failure.

Strength, especially as measured as your mastery of a particular lift is going to require heavier lifts as mastering the tricks to pull a weight off the ground in particular ways requires lifting close to that

I just checked the website, he seems to have changed this. You can even see that some of the residual language on the site infers starting lifts with just the barbell. I guess he finally wised up and realized how retarded this was.

What?
Look, lifting 5x5 exclusively is not needed to attain mastery of the movement.
And starting out with 5x5 and only doing 5x5 is building a house with a shakey foundation then trying to go back later once 25% of the house is built and trying to rebuild the base with basic building materials and beginner level techniques to fix the problems.

People should start with 8x12 with a weight they can lift to get the necessary practice down and build the strength and much more needed strength endurance before they can do anything else.
I even suggest that most people should start with at least a year of basic - intermediate level calisthenics movements and simple stretching before they ever touch a weight.

you change programs when you stall and deload x amount of times

you look less dyel after a lot of training

It's good, but SS is better. Do everything as in SS, as a begineer you will benefits with only that volume. Don't pursuit random numbers like 315 squat or 405. Do it until it works, but put close attention to your form, record yourself and look for help online. You may stall first on OHP and bench press, microload with washers or be creative or look for "Novice Bench and Press Plug-In". Also buy the book and eat at least 3000 kcal a day, including 1 gram of protein per pound.

What are you talking about? SL has rows and the press

What, I though this was decent beginner progress?
wtf I hate sl now

Well you do have plenty of reps to practice your form during your warm up

Like what you fucking irritating cunt

I’m doing 5x5, but I added Barbell Curls 3x8, Barbell Shrugs 3x8, Bicycles, and Planks on alternating days - is this good for muscle gain for someone who has like 0 muscle?