What's going to happen to the unskilled labor force when automation fully takes over?

they'll be supervising robots.
you'll probably see some stipulation that x amount of jobs have to be done by humans or have human oversight.

>you'll probably see some stipulation that x amount of jobs have to be done by humans or have human oversight.
but why though?

Both Finland and Canada ended their UBI trials. Whatever you do, don't ever assume that UBI is on its way and will save us.

>UBI its already a thing in some european countries
No it isn't lol, who the fuck told you that?

French revolution was just a big joke.

Become shareholders for physical stocks or find some other low talent jobs like being a YouTuber.

UBI, with community service or none.

Job for the sake of a job is a piece of boomer retardation.

UBI is genX retardation. It'll be easier just to genocide the poor.

Who would pay taxes?

The skilled labour force and middle class, the same people that pay taxes right now.

all of this is precisely why I am learning the skills for a dev/networking/dba job. There will still be plenty of jobs (deliveroo driver tier) but there will be no safety net or reasonable expectations of a mediocre comfy job. In the past stupid people could just earn 40k a year in admin/HR/labour but increasingly people will either live to very high standards with an increasing amount of luxury services or be peasant tier. the middle class will evaporate. I'm pretty nervous but also grateful boomers got in at just the right time to enjoy jets and smartphones before Ted gets proven right.

Move on to other cheap labor. Automation will never kill work.

You're talking actual boomers or meme boomers. For real you fucking underaged should never have touched that name.

You're doing a smart thing, man. Make sure to live small and save your cash. If you're smart, you may catch one of the rungs and climb before it disappears.

>UBI its already a thing in some european countries
Lmao, no it isn't. UBIfags are hilarious. It will never happen. No, the Rockefeller, Rothschild and their buddies won't give you money just to exist. No, they aren't afraid of the masses.

Widespread unemployment that will be mostly ignored for a while until it reaches a point where the powers that be can't pretend its not happening and are forced to do something about a quarter milllion people who can work.

So that leaves either kill them all off in a man made disaster, or pass UBI.

While the former does have a good chance of happening, UBI might just be the easiest route.

Amazon wants to allow people to use foodstamps to buy food from them and will make up their own UBI.

They will engineer diseases and create false flag wars to cut the population in half.
UBI is a pipe dream.
It will never happen.
The richest people in the world are unapologetic psychopaths, and the last thing they want to do is help pay millions of people money just to exist.

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they will all be homeless while my wages and others in similar fields increases

I don't have to worry about it because I'm going to be the one working on the automation. And by the time you can automate automation I'll either be dead, or we'll have figured out how to live in a world where no one has to work

Finland hasn't ended their UBI trial, and it will continue to be implemented until the end of the year.
Where the hell did you even hear that? There hasn't been any data published on the experiment yet because its not over so there is no evidence that it has "failed".

>what's going to happen when a shit load of people can't find work
either the government steps in like it did in the great depression or everything goes bye bye

>no-skill jobs get automated
>now more than half of the population is out of work, and has no money
How the fuck do they expect to keep up this capitalist system when no one has any money to buy any of the shit these mega corporations make?

Automation is a slow process. Not everyone is going to become unemployed over night. The way I see it, 2 things could happen: 1. New jobs will arise to counterbalance as a result of innovation, slowly but surely, and people will have to adapt to do this more valuable work.
2. Jobs will slowly disappear faster than new opportunities can be created. In this case, the overall demand for labor will decrease, and with the minimum wage price floor in place, there will be a growing surplus of labor, and it's more likely that wages will fall before people are actually unemployed. Either way, people will need to room together more often and other things.
Luckily developed nations have decreasing birth rates, so there will be less people outsourced by automation. The supply will decrease with the demand and keep the price of labor up. This is why decreasing the population is a good thing. And mass immigration activists are autistic

Then you'll be living like brazilians, busting your ass doing ungodly doing hard labor and making like 0.30 a day.

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They will rely on the "haves", not the "have-nots". If you have a professional level job, you'll be making huge bank and can afford all that shit before you off yourself in your 4000 sqft mansion.

They're cutting it short
livemint.com/Opinion/ZejGZeZLmL6L5a1RPvH4YJ/The-failure-of-Finlands-Universal-Basic-Income-experiment.html

I don't understand why they even need a trial for UBI. It's obvious that this will help everyone, especially low-income folks. That isn't rocket science.

The only question is if it can be funded.

The self-reliant don't have this problem.

Probably this.

Remember it'll easily be 20/30 years before you see automation like this or even like this . Too many people want to be served by people.

You're not thinking big enough.

UBI could work as an effective umbilical to the government that would allow the greatest measure of social, cultural and economic control of the majority of the population that we've ever seen.

Don't do x? UBI cut off.
Don't belief in x? UBI restrictions.

With the other regulations and 'freedoms' in society that we have now, such as upcoming legalization of various drugs that create dependence and lifestyles that require medication or capital upkeep, UBI becomes a way to strip your own identity away from you if you step out of line.

Don't behave yourself?
No money for weed for you.
No more art school.
No more pills for your identity alignments.

Essentially it makes less work for the government and gives them a more direct approach to citizen regulation.

And then government itself is run by its connections to hard business.

This is why UBI is inevitable, you are, after all, leasing the populations own money back to them, psychopaths stand to lose very little from this that they don't already lose, and stand to gain a greater range of control from the advanced integration of economy, culture and government.

That said, I still like the idea of UBI. Fuck jobs for the sake of jobs. Most people don't do shit or they do it badly, this is a natural way of things that you will never change, no catch-all political belief system will ever solve this, it's a way of natures organization of systems that we are a direct abstract of. The least we can do is keep them from fucking up the cities, raising violent kids and so on.

The future looks grim
20 years from now you will see hordes of millions trying to get into Europe and North America as climate change worsens and most of Africa, the middle East and India become uninhabitable due to high temperatures
And then there's automation
Retail is already dying

Future looks dark

Won't 50 percent unemployment lead to massive crime waves? That ought to be interesting.

But who to steal FROM when no one has anything? You could go into the rich neighborhoods, but you can bet that the authorities would have that enclaved and buttoned up big-time.

If those 50% could organize then there'd be hell.

Won't it be funny if they revolt and actually took over the government and impose rules for workers rights and wages... wait.

By that point, hopefully we'll be allowed to focus on things we're passionate about, instead of scrambling to create work for ourselves. As of right now, there's too much work that can be done to improve society and the world, but I do see a much more serious conversation about UBI and phasing out unskilled labor being a thing in the future.

>unskilled jobs just don't exist anymore
>mexicans move north to Canada
>nobody can get their first job
>poverty spreads throughout the US
>only way to get money is to steal
>entire country becomes Detroit

It'd be for workers rights, not UBI/bum rights. Right to work over right to sit on your arse and do nothing

right to work just means you can be fired without cause at any time

Burgerstan is uniquely positioned to fuck it up in the worst ways imaginable. No other country in the modern world jerks itself off to muh capitulizm like them, actively despises regulation like them, flaunts corruption like them, builds empires on greed like them, nor harbours as much disdain for "all those """lazy""" poor people" like them. It's the perfect storm for a new age of feudalism, except they'll have executives and board members instead of kings and queens.
Wealth inequality and unemployment rates will reach staggering heights, droves of homeless people will roam the streets, crime will be rampant. When the scales tip far enough that there are no longer enough people to support the automated economy, the owners of automation will pack it up and fuck off somewhere they are untouchable while the rest of the country crumbles into anarchy.
But Scandinavia will probably be alight. Start learning Finnish now.

Wow it's almost as if there was no reason to accept mass migrants to employ and instead we could've had a eutopian future where the few in a prosperous country could have enjoyed robot labor whilst our children would have to work towards meaningful employment creating an even brighter future! Instead we'll have millions of unemployed migrants sucking the teet of social security and rioting when some violent criminal gets arrested

realistically? Sterilization or an engineered disease outbreaks to cull population

All the wage slaves will continue complaining that their jobs are being stolen by robots not realising that they should be arguing the point that wage slavery is a thing of the past...

The fuckin dumb faggots.

Should put all points into space engineering so we can all become miserable but in space

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problem will solve itself when there are no jobs left for teenagers to pollute the workforce in

This is true, but current wage slaves would need to be educated for better jobs somehow.

Social welfare programs will continue to expand, although they will also continue to lag behind unemployment. Some countries may implement basic income but probably not the US. Regardless we'll have some form of need-based support to keep the poor above water. Food, shelter, healthcare and education will all be free to a greater or lesser extent depending on your income. Minimum wage will continue to increase and anyone with a job will basically be middle class. Standards for entry level work will also rise. We'll see people spending more than a decade in and out of higher education trying to qualify for employment. Stuff like paying for internships will become the norm, so that you can get some experience and a foot in the door. Lots of people argue that it'll all break down and we'll eat the poor or some stupid shit like that. No. Productivity is dramatically increasing, there's more than enough to go around even after the wealthy ownership class gets done sucking your blood. They'll grumble about it and try to find the sweet spot where they can maintain their generational wealth and luxurious lifestyle while still pacifying the mob and maintaining social order. Just like they've always done. At the end of the day you poor fuckers are still useful for moving money around and stimulating the economy, and that's necessary. When money changes hands (((they))) take their cut and that's how they stay in business. More hands, more money. A few exceptional individuals will emerge from the crowd to contribute at the top levels and pull the rest of us forward. Just like always.

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The economy needs unskilled laborers to function, not just to labor, but to buy all the shit that gets manufactured. This can mean either a gradual transition to a post-scarcity utopia, or a total market crash.
It'll probably be a bit of both, depending on where you live.

Maybe in the US, but in a lot of places the government will just pay for your living.
Over here, there's also the fact that if you try to live in a tent outside in winter, you will literally die. Unless you can McGyver together some thermal insulation for your tent, you will freeze to death. It tends to keep the homeless population in check.

Why cant we just embrace communism to avoid this dystopia

Communism was unironically ahead of its time. The problem is that the technology wasn't there to support the ideology. Everyone still had to work and so it turned into fascism and gulags. The implementation was too extremist too. We'll end up with some functional middle ground that's neither fully capitalist nor communism.

I've been living off Rothschild's jewgold for most of the current decade. Not on UBI, but all government-paid benefits are tax-funded.
The point isn't really to give poor people more money, but to simplify the existing bureaucratic processes for giving poor people money, so you're not spending so much money on distributing the money.

death hopefully
less poor people and less brown people

Well first, because we'll never reach true post-scarcity. Some things will always be scarce, and some people (more and more the high-skilled) will continue to need to work. Second, communism has no answer for why that segment of society should support the non-useful segment of society other than "if you don't, we'll kill you and take your shit". And that's less and less of a credible threat as the decades go by, both because people these days can generally be bought off into not risking that dangerous revolution stuff, and because improving technology means revolutions are more likely to be put down.

So eventually the rich and high-skilled are just gonna say "we don't need you anymore and we don't see why we should bother supporting you" because they think that the rest of the people probably won't fight, and if they do fight, they'll lose. It probably won't be as blatant as them saying that. But I wouldn't be surprised if part of the bargain is that okay, you can get your UBI payments, but only if you're childless and agree to sterilization, so you don't create another dependent generation. People who say no and have kids anyway get left to their fate.

see that kids?
that is a ROBOT if I have ever seen one

There's tons of unsheltered homeless in the US who die from the cold. The government does not care.

UBI doesn't seem likely
throwing everyone into minimal security prison looks cheaper, especially with the new friendly computer judges to help support our legal system

the same that happened with the frozen bread in mcdonalds

In my town it's already you either slave for the Amazon warehouse or do some bullshit sales job.

I work in the machine learning and artificial intelligence industry. I am one of the people who works on these kinds of "intelligent" platforms that may well dislocate a large proportion of the working populace. (Seriously, ask me any mathematical or technical question you like if you don't believe me). Do you guys think my work is in some way unethical? What do you think people who work in automation should be taking into consideration? Is it our fault if mass layoffs are a result of our work?

I don't believe you. What do you know?

Quite a bit. I'm rather familiar with the mathematical theory of deep learning and machine learning insofar as it has been developed to date. I work more in the applied research side of things, and in particular I do a lot of feature space analysis and am beginning to work on graph-symbolic end to end differentiable compilers. I mostly work on Deep Neural network driven systems, as well as areas involving reinforcement learning and one-shot systems.

of course its not your fault or unethical

its politicians fault and are unethical, they cant see any future past their own, all they want is money and fuck the future

all we need is population control and proper schooling and to stop accepting shithole foreigners to ruin the country and its economy

It's kind of pointless either way because if you weren't making it someone else would be, that's how an arms race goes. If you were the only person on the planet who understood AI then your withdrawal would be worthwhile.

If a new thing creates the opportunity to gain more money or power than the thing before it, people are going to use it. Ethical questions never have and will never stop profitable progress of any calibre. Everything from crossbows to muskets to IVF were ethical issues in their time. Ethics forgets quickly but greed evolves. You can only control your own actions and whatever your contribution is it won't affect the end result, do what you want.

Survival of the fittest. If you have a job that can be done by a robot, you need to rethink your life decisions before it's too late.

Politicians to a large degree, interestingly enough there is a lot that could be done in corporate law to control and manage the way artificial intelligence is used in the workforce. However, I am unaware of any effort by any government to tackle this in a way that will protect the workforce while allowing AI to move ahead as technological aids.

I tend to agree. Ultimately, I try to personally direct my own efforts that maximize the benefit/damage ratio. And almost none of us who actually work in the field have the slightest control over how this tech we develop actually gets used. We just get paid to build it and that's that. Whatever happens will happen.

>unethical
It would be surprising if your work was perfectly ethical. Nuclear research brought power plants and bombs. Obviously the military applications of AI can go horribly wrong since we're literally letting machines decide if people live or not. And there's all the ramifications of replacing lawyers, doctors, professions that are known for requiring a strong sense of ethics in the first place.

>What do you think people who work in automation should be taking into consideration?
Don't pretend to be an oblivious boomer who thinks the people that are getting laid off are going to be okay. Don't advise them to just learn a trade and assume everything is going to be fine. Vote accordingly.

>Is it our fault?
If you people didn't exist, we wouldn't have this problem. So it is your fault. Someone could rob a store to feed his family, but it would still be his fault the store was robbed.

REMEMBER GOYIM YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO KILL YOURSELVES
EVERY LIFE IS PRECIOUS
SO LIVE IN THE STREETS LIKE THE FERAL RATS THAT YOU ARE UNTIL WE SET UP MORE AUTOMATED HOMELESS REMOVAL SQUADS

>Don't pretend to be an oblivious boomer who thinks the people that are getting laid off are going to be okay.
One thing I wish society and politics would come to terms with is that no matter what we do (or refrain from doing), some people ain't gonna be okay. You can't save everybody and its pointless to try. You save the ones its feasible to save and shrug when the rest fall through the cracks.

im sad you didnt get a (You) because this is accurate

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yeah but UBI will be after a big war
Countries economies collapsing will force it before a big NWO finally takes control and can actually do UBI without failing cause everything is owned by those in charge

RISE COMRADES!
youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs

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UBI will never be a thing

UBI will never be a thing because you dont want the population to stop working.

if robots take over jobs then probably lots of food stamps and section 8.

Nothing unethical about automation. If its used to drive layoffs instead of better working conditions that not on you. I personally work semiconductor manufacturing, if one of my chips is used to guide a missile into a hospital that's not on me. Same if a doctor heals a person who goes out and murders someone.

How far away do you think true "intelligent" automation is? We use a lot of automation at my work, but its mostly good for replacing very low skilled jobs or allowing high skilled workers to do more work faster. I have a hard time seeing it actually displace people who think for a living.

oh yeah lets behead all the rich

and everyone opposing the new rich )))

dont you get it man ? you are LITERALLY worthless: cant produce anything, cant consume anything. you have been replaced by robots. youll starve

No way. People would sooner get arrested for some petty shoplifting crime than starve. Expect to see A LOT of people in prison in the future.

Look at the state of Brazil today. Basically communities of the rich surrounded by favelas.

Shoo leftypol shoo!

I think full human level intelligence is still quite a ways away. There are a few reasons for thinking this. For instance, we have no unified mathematical theory of learning. As you would well know, complex systems like this are difficult to develop without a strong guiding mathematical framework backed by empirical data. The AI community is beginning to put some more serious work into this, but its a long way away. We are also bottlenecked by hardware technology, as the computational load of AI is significant, and we need better and faster hardware in order to build bigger more intelligent systems. All in all, I would guess we are maybe 15-40 years from human level AI. I know, thats a huge range, but really, its very difficult to guess how the field will evolve.

ok you wont starve. theyll give you "soup" alright. you just wont have children. or a house. or a car

A lot of UBI proponents seem to assume that relatively few people will drop out of the workforce completely when they start getting UBI checks. They'll just pick different, possibly lower-paying, jobs that suit them more, feel less pressure to take the first thing they get when unemployed, or maybe work fewer hours. This assumption is necessary if you're to have a snowball's chance in hell of generating the tax revenue to pay for UBI.

I think they're wrong, and that large numbers of people will, even if UBI is pretty bare-bones, say "Fuck this job bullshit, I quit!" And the UBI system will have to come up with its many trillions of dollars from maybe a half to a third of the tax base that had been planned for. And the more people who choose not to work, the more likely the people who are still working will say "And why should I have to pay much higher taxes for this again?" UBI will be like what happened to Detroit, but on a much larger scale - the people who stuck around were the ones getting payments from the system (public workers/retirees, the disabled or poor who couldn't move) and as their demands got proportionally heavier and heavier, more and more of the people who were paying into the system got fed up enough that they left. Hence the downward spiral.

You're all retarded socialist parasites who don't know how economics work.
UBI would just cause more jobs to be taken up by automation because it would price humans out of the market.
What happens when new technology takes up lower labor is that people's lives improve. Objectively more resources enter the economy and the world gets richer. The standard of living increases.
"Oh but the poor people are too stupid"- We live in the fucking age of information. You can learn engineering skills for free if you know where to look. And if it means for some people either educating themselves or dying, they WILL educate themselves. And the ones who don't? Fuck them. Money isn't a human right, they aren't entitled to the fruits of other people's labor.

come on. socialism isnt the answer. but there cant be 7 billion engineers dont you think

True. And in the case of AI its complicated, because there are enormous potential benefits to humanity by developing systems to help us solve hard problems. People being laid off is just one small component of a very complex system of potential benefits and deficits.

people don't understand that in the long term, ever single labor can potentially be automated

the only seemingly permanent job is the administration and maintenance of AI and related appendages

You don't have to have a 4 year education in engineering to get a job managing a group of robots in a factory. There are lots of careers you can enter that won't be automated any time soon. Take truck driving as an example.

economics is saying that some years from now, everyone will be a khan academy web dev software "engineer"
this sounds absolutely retarded, economics can shove its crystal ball up its ass