Why do fat people always gain it back? How to break the vicious cycle?

If youve never been fat before you wont know what its like, there is this insatiable hunger that comes with having been fat before.

Don't get me wrong, I track my macros/calories and can cut down, it's all science and numbers, but I can only do it for so long before the insatiable hunger takes over, it's always there lingering.

I go to sleep hungry every single night, I toss and turn in my bed non-stop thinking about food, only falling asleep when its too late. Waking up even more hungry, hopefully it is temporarily satiated with filling foods, but the hunger always comes back hard.

The lowest body-fat I have been was around 12%, it was impossible for me to maintain, I was suffering the physiological symptoms a normal person would get at 5% bodyfat. Imagine feeling like you're in bodybuilding contest prep 24/7 despite not even being single digit bodyfat.

>TLDR
Imagine feeling like you're in bodybuilding contest prep 24/7 despite not even being single digit bodyfat, that's what having been fat before feels like when you try to cut.

dr fung says start doing three day fasts to reset it

JONAH NO

This sounds like some Karl pilkingron shit

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did you use any stimulants?

Unironically most of these sudden and frequent hunger pangs are most likely due to your blood sugar being completely fucked and having huge swings throughout the day. I used to be a guy who would be hungry after dinner (~6 pm) and have to have two (usually rather large) snacks, which really sometimes were meals between dinner and going to bed, which was like a fucking 5-6 hour period. Snacking throughout the day too.

Im not even saying go keto, but if you want to get rid of those feeling of hunger then your are really gonna need to cut nearly all simple sugars, and ideally bread/pasta too. Only get your carbs from potatoes/sweet potatoes and some fruit here and there. Also stop eating before bed, set a certain time, and start moving that time back weekly (by 20,30 minutes an hour if you are ambitious). If you can get to the point when the last time you eat in the day is around a normal dinner time, I can almost guarantee that a lot of those hunger pangs will go away.

I still drink milk and eat fruit in amounts that pretty much guarantee im not in ketosis, but I'mj pretty sure I could go nearly a whole 24hrs without eating now and feel fine. I usually eat my last meal at dinner (a little later than regular 7-8) and not eat or even notice hunger unitl 11-12 the next day.

we are addicts user, i say it in a bad way not in a boggie "give me sympathy" way.
makes me even more proud to lose weight tho.

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Once your body begins to replicate fat cells they continue to replicate at a faster rate than they die off.
Because of this you drain a little energy from multiple fat cells instead of a lot of energy from a few fat cells.
Fat cells require a set amount of energy per day just to survive and this energy requirement is what makes fatties prone to staying fat.
How to overcome this you must stay at a healthy body weight for years and years to prevent fat cells from continuing forced replication. Eventually they stabilize and die off to meet your new bodies new needs.
It's a long process, a very long process.

Imagine if you will having an extra 50 billion fat cells more than the average human and the utter hunger that comes with those new cell needs.
The average healthy human only has 30-35 billion fat cells.

It's a big fucking deal.
Easiest way to prevent this is to just never become fat. As each few billion fat cells is that much more that will be eating at your willpower when you try to lose the weight.

Beat off whenever you get hungry
It will lead you to associate hunger with feeling good, and you'll begin to enjoy those hunger pangs
Is it healthy? Probably not, but it worked for me

This is all true.
I went from 280 to 160 and I've maintained that for over a year now.
I'm constantly hungry, even when I've just eaten I'm hungry. It takes a huge amount of willpower just to maintain.

insulin

No. Stimulants make it even worse. If I so much as have a energy drink I WILL end up binging on thousands of calories. I have to stay clear away form any kind of stimulants.

I also read a little bit more into this OP.
According to all sources children who are obese have an even further accelerated growth rate of fat cells than adults who get fat.

So fat kids later in life will in fact have a harder time losing fat and keeping it off than adults who get fat and try to lose the weight.

gtfo with your mom science you fucking retard

>insulin resistance and blood sugar fluctuations aren't a thing
>blood sugar drops won't make you hungry
>eating sugary shit hasn't been shown to make you have a much larger appetite the next time you eat

Lmao, shut the fuck up you big butterball.

Jonah does it for movie roles though, he loses it easily

> Why do fat people always gain it back? How to break the vicious cycle?
Ok, lets look at this rationally. The most popular form of diet is "eat less, move more", i.e. eat at a daily 500 kcal deficit and at the same time go on the ergometer for an hour or something like that. This has been the default "weight loss" recommendation since the 60ies and it's coincided with everyone getting crazy fat.

The reason it doesn't work is because it erroneously assumes that a) the body's ability to burn calories is fixed and b) jogging or whatever light cardio burns calories.

We know a) is not true, the body can burn +/- 1000 kcal if need be, simply by heating the body to a lower (or higher) body temperature, cutting off the heating to the extremities and such. And if in doubt, the body can piss out 10'000kcal extra a day through urine.

b) isn't true because, again, you're saving the calories heating your body through your liver and let it get warm through skeletal muscle activity. The calories you're "burning" through jogging simply get saved on the heating bill. Furthermore, you'll be exhausted afterwards and move less, be less active throughout the rest of the day, and most importantly of all: Even if you ignore all of those effects, the calories you burn on an hour of daily jogging are at most only 10% of what you burn throughout the day (for heating, organ function and such) anyways. You could build yourself a calorie-counting bed, lie on it, and watch the calorie counter go up. It'd still be inaccurate as all fuck of course.

My Pavlovian response is fucked. All throughout college I would get high, jack-off, then eat.

Now after I jack-off I'm super fucking hungry.

that's a tumblr pasta, right?

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>it's coincided with everyone getting crazy fat.
This is because of fast/junk food companies creating addictive salt/sugar/fat profiles in food you fucking mong.

So what we need to do is identify the true cause of obesity, because it's obviously not "eating too much" or "moving too little". Luckily this has already been done. The primary cause of obesity is hormonal. You have hormones that tell your body to store fat (or burn it) and people who are fat thus have an overabundance of hormones that tell them to store fat vs hormones that tell them to burn fat.

There's a bunch of hormones involved, but, especially considering there's been an obesity epidemic since the 70ies, we can pretty much focus on just one single hormone as the cause for the majority of those fat fucks you see walking around every day.

That hormone is insulin. Insulin tells the body to store fat, and conversely suppresses the burning of fat. So why do we have too much insulin? Because we eat too many highly refined carbs, such as wheat flour, and sugars. And furthermore, we eat throughout the day. Each time we eat something, insulin is excreted into the blood stream. If we eat 6 times a day, we have a constantly high level of insulin. Conversely, if we eat only once or twice a day, the insulin levels are going to be elevated for 2-4 hours after eating and drop back to a baseline afterwards. So by drinking sugary soda all day, and eating and snacking every few hours during the day, we tell our body all day long to store fat instead of burning it.

The nutritionists advice of the last 50 years - eat carbs (because fat is bad for you) and "eat many times a day" is exactly what's causing the obesity epidemic. And the suggested remedy (eat less, move more) doesn't work, and we know it doesn't work, and we know why it doesn't work, yet this shit is still being propagated. Because people want to sell you gym subscriptions, more meals, weight loss supplements and all that.

FAST SHILL INCOMING

SO MUCH THIS

But the solutions are pretty obvious, really. You don't need to eat fewer calories. You need to eat things that don't spike your insulin like crazy, and you need to eat only once or twice a day, and avoid "snacking", and especially avoid drinking sugary sodas all throughout the day.

That means, instead of carbs, you eat fats. And the healthiest fats for that purpose are saturated animal fats. They satiate you, and they're about the only thing that you can eat that lowers your insulin. (Another thing that lowers insulin when consumed is vinegar, but that's a bit obscure) so it's not hard to only eat one or two meals in a day and get your necessary calories.

Without insulin being constantly elevated in your blood stream, without glucose in your blood stream, your body will start burning its own fat. A ketogenic diet is nothing else than forcing the body into fat-burning mode. And the body takes some time to get used to this. But it works. You can spend months and years in ketosis if need be.

The next step is simple: Fasting. Don't eat or drink anything with calories in it. At most, you should eat a properly made bone broth once a day to get those micronutrient minerals. Depending on how fat you are, you would be able to fast for weeks or months at a time without ill effects. And if you're already in ketosis, and if you're already only eating one meal a day, you barely notice the difference, because you've been burning fat and eating nothing 23 hours per day already. You now just increase your daily fasting period to 24 hours. Voilà. You're now losing body fat the fastest way possible.

"But user will I not lose all my muscle mass?" The opposite is the case. When you're fasting (instead of just eating with caloric reduction) your body produces CRAZY amounts of human growth hormone - precisely so the lean mass is preserved. You're in a fasting state, you need to burn the surplus fuel, not the furniture.

It's not, I just wrote it especially for you

You called it. But "shilling" suggests someone pays me for my opinion. My only payment is making user less ignorant. The people who want to sell you weight loss programs, supplements, gym subscriptions - those are the real shills. What I'm selling here is you literally spending no money on food for a while.

it's really a combination of everything in this thread to some degree

>malicious advertising by fast food companies
>growth in the ease of nihilistic and hedonistic lifestyles
>consumer culture and "body positivity"
>a waning population of strong and healthy heroic or fatherly/motherly figures
>hormonal and metabolic complexities that run deeper than calories in/out
>a lack of serious national drive to be healthy and enforce healthy lifestyles
>a lack of standardized beauty
>a general lack of awareness of the science behind diet and health in the public
>a general ignorance in what the public puts into their body
>lax FDA standards
>increased portions for less money
>an economy that benefits unhealthy eating
>etc etc etc

all of these things entangle people in a web with no end, each symptom being able to be a cause and each cause being able to be a symptom - when you step back and try to take it all in you see it's a lifestyle shift wrought through a myriad of other social, economical, and health choices made on a scale ranging from personal to international - people are a product of their environment, and the environment has been soured in part by the people who came before us, and before them, and before them - it's a long-coming issue whose basis extends down unfathomably deep and stems from many, many things and simply trying to understand it or "break the cycle" would require first advanced knowledge in many aspects of western life and then a level of effort on par with getting everybody on the earth to all jump and hit the ground at the same time to see if you can cause an earthquake

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>making user less ignorant
>literally lie and spread nonsense

> Claims I lie
> Doesn't offer any actual counter arguments
Yeah that shit doesn't fly

Damn conor mcgregor really let himself go

In case anyone is intrigued, these three posts are basically a tl;dr summary of Dr. Jason Fungs blog, which you can find googling "idm program"

There's even more shit going on that Fung doesn't even know about. The whole heating thing for example - If you overheat your body, such as with HIIT-cardio, you will start losing subcutaneous fat because the sheer overheating forces your body to get rid of the thermal insulation in your skin - which is a large part of the body fat. The other part is the visceral "organ" fat, and fasting gets rid of that first, because the subcutaneous fat actually conserves the energy needed for heating.

But yeah. If you're fat and you don't want to be fat (yes, there's good, healthy reasons to want to be at least somewhat fat) you need to know what's going on and why the "orthodox" weight loss program has never worked, why people always bounce back, because they don't change their hormonal profile and continue to eat things that make them fat.

Being a fat fuck is simply a consequence of being misinformed, and too stupid to notice that the orthodox advice doesn't work. Seriously, if you fat fucks had a lick of brains you'd notice at least after your second diet that this is bullshit, and that there has to be another reason why you're fat.

He literally looks like the jew meme

Well then, time for pain conditioning
You ever seen the movie Dodgeball?

Interesting theory, problem is all the credible research has found that carb restricted diets and fasting are no better than conventional diets for long term weight reduction.

> People eating a particular diet and then going right back to donuts and coca cola are gonna get fat again
No fucking shit Sherlock

Holy fuck. He's literally turning into white Charles Barkley

>carb restricted diets and fasting are no better than conventional diets for long term weight reduction.
Or short term either.

webmd.com/digestive-disorders/news/20151209/diy-fecal-transplant#1

>She took his stool out of the training toilet, “mushed it up” with some saline solution in a plastic baggie and then squirted it into her rectum using an empty enema bottle.

Because they try to “diet” instead of making meaningful and sustainable changes to their eating habits. They mean good and take the steps to eat better but usually start too aggressively, end up feeling deprived, and eventually fall off the wagon

Karl's always right tho he just sounds retarded. Infinite wisdom low intelligence

Liar

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vox.com/2018/2/21/17036004/do-low-carb-diets-work

>slacks
>basketball shirt

???????

> Vox is some sort of reliable source
> "But what’s often lost in all the boosterism around the low-carb approach is that it is still an unproven hypothesis in science."
Right. We only use "proven" science here. Proven science such as.... ummm... Ok we only use "science1" approved by the board of agriculture. HFCS IS HEALTHY AND CARBS ARE GOOD FOR YOU!!!! THOSE LOW CARB GUYS ARE FRAUDS AND CRAZY PEOPLE!

1 may not actually contain science

being fat is more of a mental illness than physical illness, not even being sarcastic

>THOSE LOW CARB GUYS ARE FRAUDS AND CRAZY PEOPLE!
Well you're certainly starting to sound pretty crazy, just take a breath and calm down a bit bro.

It's a "reverse schizophrenia" - Normal schizophrenia has bullshit coming out of your mouth. Reverse schizophrenia, i.e. fatness, has bullshit going into your mouth.

You sound like a 100% shill, not even kidding.

retard

Old fag here - who the fuck is he?

That article has in it mentioned the meta-analysis from the lancet
> low-carb diets outperform low-fat diets

That means to the best of current science, from what we know, low carb diets are statistically significantly better than low fat diets at losing weight. With all scientific certainty that you can have at this current point.

That means that anyone arguing that low carb diets are not better than low fat diets, is, scientifically speaking, a fraud, liar, or a moron. Because the biggest scientific analysis has show that this is exactly the case.

If you're an obvious industry shill like Hall you can whine about how the difference isn't THAT big or that you can always go back to eating donuts and soda and get fat again. But then you're not talking science, you're not someone who edumacates people. You're a lying fraud.

But the article cites multiple credible sources whereas you've posted a single out of context, possibly shopped graph from one minor 15 year old study.

Seriously you need to calm down dude you're going to give yourself a stroke.

The sources it cites, including the most credible source of all, the lancet meta-analysis, clearly show low carb outperforming low fat diets for weight loss.

The article focuses on one bullshit study designed by an obvious shill to hand wave that away. That tells you not only is the shitty study it focuses on bullshit (Just look at its details) but also, that the entire article is designed to mislead the reader.

And you're an IQ89 moron who fell for it.

Go eat a bullet, lying low IQ moron. The world does not require your opinions on things.

If you allow an obvious troll to make you this angry you're not going to last on Jow Forums for very long my friend.

If you think that's a guy being angry, then you've not been on these here chinese basketweaving boards for long.

I could eat a knob at night.

Can be fixed through poo transplant

Best thread on Jow Forums in a long time. Thank you

A lady squirting doo doo water up her butt is not what I would call a trusted source.

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The problem with a low carb diet, as someone who's been doing keto for almost two years, is water weight. You could cut down to a normal BMI through low carb, but then only to find when you return to a moderate carb diet that you balloon up 10 pounds in water. Typically these are the first 10 lb you lose on the keto diet just being returned to you. So in the end his graphics of higher weight loss through keto diet is skewed a bit because the initial two months consist of mostly a water loss, and then subsequent moderate fat loss equal to the lower fat calorie restriction diet.

The real benefit to keto is the ability to do longer daily fasts, reaching OMAD, or potentially 2-3 day fasts over time with relative ease. But everyone should understand that anyone cutting on keto is essentially 10lb fatter than the scale says, because a diet is temporary right? For severe cases like myself, I won't regain 150lb that I lost if I switched back. But it does hinder my theoretical overall progress by ~10lb because you have to consider your water weight regain.

I do OMAD+Keto/zerocarb 5 days a week, always 24 hour fasting between meals.

During the weekend I always have 8 hour eat window Saturday and Sunday, unlimited calories and eat as much as I want (usually clean foods though) and the water weight gain is something like 3 lbs that is gone by after few days of OMAD.

Still losing weight this way, even though I am in my goal weight like 0,5lbs a week. If I go 3 days of week cheating my weight stays exactly the same.

fucked leptin levels for life, this is what and overweight childhood/puberty gets you
also a victim and gotta be hungry all the time and don't even have fully developed abs yet

>keto
>two years
So your testosterone levels have dropped to the levels of a little girl?
How large are your breast now?

They used to be huge when I was 350 but now they're almost gone. They just sag a lot. I think my nipples are at least an inch lower than they should be with a fit chest.

I'd rather have low test than be a 400lb monster though, wouldn't you?

i thoughy calories in calories out are all that matters

Because once you lose control even for just a day or two, it snowballs out of control and you start eating more calories again while thinking that you are gonna just burn it with working out then the old habits come back and you are again at step 1 after months/years of pushing yourself to change.

> Best thread on Jow Forums in a long time
t-thanks user

I can confirm this, in 1 week on keto I lost 10 pounds of water. It's just when you lift and you're a guy, you lose all that glycogen, that also binds water. And I 100% agree with you that the main purpose of keto is to transition into OMAD and full water fasting.

However one thing you have to take into account is that even when you do a carb-loaded, but calorie-restricted diet, you're going to deplete your glycogen stores. So regular diets also experience this "water loss", it just takes about a week, as opposed to a day, with Keto, when transitioning from a carb loaded, full-calorie diet.

Keto is a quite extreme diet anyways, in terms of restrictions. OMAD is probably more important, and going a soft "low carb" where you focus on fatty foods but don't have to be the asshole at the family dinner refusing to eat cake, is much more sustainable in the long term.

Once you figured out how to lose weight, none of that matters anyways. You can binge for a week on donuts on soda and just fast the next week, because now, you're used to it, you know you can do it, and you know it's easy.

No, since low test causes obesity.

Keto can not be maintained without serious bodily harm.
You're playing a dangerous game there.

How about instead you eat less and stop doing meme diets.

Are you still trolling? It's don't

If i ever get those feelings and I’m over my calorie limit I just pretend I’m on a fast

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> Keto lowers test
Keto means eating tons of cholesterine, which is the basis for test. What are you on about?

Even if this is true, the holy grail, the answer to any and all questions regarding weight loss is

F A S T
A
S
T

Life is hard as fuck dude. Either be fat or don't be fat, but no one is ever going to "understand" and cut you slack. It's not how the world works. What do you think you're going to gain by trying to persuade anonymous people on a messaging board that they should feel sorry for you.

Imagine a dude who wakes up in constant, mind-numbing pain every day. Everything works normally for him except all of his nerves are on fire, just blazing, 24/7. Dude still has to get up and live his life. If he bitches about it people will pretend to give a shit and not really give a shit like people do.

Will you fight? Or will you die like a dog?

You have to fast.

It is not only weak character, it is also in part because of the amount of Perfluoroalkyl acids you have in your body. They fuck up your hormones and makes you fat. And they are in fucking everything!

ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/ehp.1104034

Everything he's saying is dead on. If you disagree, then find a disprove his claims.
>inb4 CICO screeching
He's not disagreeing with CICO. No one who advocates fasting does.

at least he can get a script for medical weed

>Why do fat people always gain it back?
because once you've created fat cells they are there forever. Cutting down only shrinks them so it's easy to regain fat when you start eating too much. Liposuction permanently removes fat cells but you can't "gain" them again (from what iv'e heard) so excess calories will turn into fat in some other place on your body

>Karl's always right
I hate this, no he's not, shut the fuck up

sounds interesting, mind linking the gut bacteria transplant thing?
i don't think it's everything but i do believe bacteria has a lot of "power" in our bodies

You're suggesting that you wouldn't lose more weight fasting than you would on a conventional diet? Certified retard.

How does keto lower test?

Smartest and realest post on this fucking site for real. People don't understand how this works. You cannot grow new muscle cells but you can grow new fat cells. That's why it's exponential. It just keeps piling on and damaging your body permanently.

The answer to OP to keeping it off, is absolutely positively never let it slip. You can't just burn the fat and switch off. You're never done. For the rest of your life you have to weigh in weekly and track different measurement points like hips waist and neck. If the fat starts coming back, start cutting again. If it's back to a normal level, live a little and try to keep it in check. That's all you can do.

Mom, stop posting on my Armenian gymnastics forum.

>grew up obese
>been thin for about 5 years
>can still easily eat 5000kcal in a single meal if I don't count calories

WHY ISNT MAKING YOUR CHILD FAT A FELONY?!

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Mouthbreathers like him are all doomed

This this this

>being this fucking new
Low carb/no carb diets are directly linked to testosterone drop. Shits not fucking new kids.
You need carbs, you physically need a set amount for your body.
Numerous, quite possibly thousands of sources exist that state high protein/low carb diets cause testosterone to lower in the body.

You need to do research before you believe memes.
Keto is a survival mechanism that is meant for short term living in seasons of drought or snow when carbs are more scarce.
It's not meant to be maintained long term and literally every society on the planet that eats a keto diet dies decades before normal humans die with a ton of health problems.

God damn just do some fucking research.