This triggers the ketofag

This desu. This shitflinging on both sides is getting tiresome.
If you try to push yourself you'll see you just do better with carbs, but for recovering fat fucks keto is a good way to lose weight.

>t. lost 90 lbs on keto and got into powerlifting

When I was doing keto and lifting weights I felt like i was on death's door. I personally believe that Keto and Fasting are the way to lose weight, but not while doing weightlifting and working out. If you're sedentary, fine. Do Keto or fast and you'll be perfectly fine. But while your weightlifting, eat healthy but make sure to have at least a little bit of carbs throughout the day.

>Entire fucking video is talking about low carb high protein

So the fucking doctor is talking about aikens and not keto. Ree.

>muh everything i dont like is sugar

>keto
>powerlifting
lol, almost as gay as the paleo-crossfit pipeline

ketocel detected
there is virtually 0 difference between atkins and "keto" diets nowadays, the actual true ketogenic diet is virtually 90% fat and 10% protein, the less fats you eat in percentage the less ketogenic it is, most keto niggers on the online fitness community are eating like 70% fats 25% protein 5% fat, that's basically atkins

70% fats 25% protein 5% carbs*

"weight loss" is an irrelevant vague term, no one should care about weight loss unless they are a fighter or some shit like that, what matters is body composition, and keto is fucking trash garbage pushed by TRT and coffee addicted retards mostly from america, canada and the uk.

>he is ketofag
lole

they're not the way to lose weight
I am recomping rn after doing a retarded low carb diet for months straight, I'm eating like 10x the carbs and less than a third of the fats I was eating, my muscles are fuller and I am dropping fat, because I'm eating less fat.
Since I train a lot and do a fuckton of volume the carbs are mostly used for muscle repair.
Since I don't eat fucking candy all day my energy levels are consistent and I can't even feel any dips.
Keto is shit for anyone with athletic goals.

>my muscles are fuller and I am dropping fat, because I'm eating less fat.
Full retard.

I've gone semi vegetarian for about three weeks now and I feel great. I only eat meat maybe once a week. My shits have never been cleaner, and I never get that disgusting bloated feeling. I never feel sick from eating a huge meal, I just feel nice and full. Plus I don't feel tired after eating anymore. Mind you I'm sticking to whole foods, fuck that processed vegan "meat" shit or onions and double fuck anything with added sugar. The only processed shit I've been taking is protein powder on gym days and my lifts have been steadily progressing.

Yeah I get my protein from a supplement. How many "Supplements" are in that beef you're eating? Those aren't pecs growing on your chest anons.

Fat is literally directly stored as fat, carbs though are used for a variety of things besides storage, like replenishing muscle glycogen, blunting gluconeogenesis(which boosts muscle protein breakdown) and also takes calories to even assimilate as fat.
This is why every single olympic athlete eats plenty of carbs.

>Fat is literally directly stored as fat
Yet all the people who adopt a high-fat diet suddenly start losing all their fat, even without counting calories. Can we say the same about people on a high-carb diet?

Yes, if we only count the people who deliberately go high carb diets and know what they're doing and not the people who are incidentally on high carb because their big mac comes with extra large fries.

So you admit that someone can lose fat accidentally on a high-fat diet, but someone on a high-carb diet actually must know what he's doing to lose fat.

Nobody goes on an idiotic keto diet accidentally so we may never know.

You didn't refute anything I said, fat is literally stored as fat and that's an undeniable fact of reality in mammals.
The reason why people on low carb diets manage to lose fat is because they are burning more fat, since they have virtually no carbs to burn off.
In the absence of carbs and protein fat oxidation is highly increased, so even though you are eating the most adipogenic macro nutrient you are also burning off more of your own fats stored so you always achieve a balance.
Doesn't change the fact that high carb diets are way more flexible for humans.
And yes, high carb diets allow people to gain muscle and lose fat without even tracking calories, that's why it has been the norm in bodybuilding circles for decades.

My friend knows nothing about nutrition, and I just told him to check packages and online nutrition facts for food with high fat content, and told him to make it so he eats only 20g or less of carbs a day and the majority of his macros as fat. The result is that it's only been a few days and he already looks better, feels more energetic, and his physical performances have increased.
>And yes, high carb diets allow people to gain muscle and lose fat without even tracking calories, that's why it has been the norm in bodybuilding circles for decades.
The norm in bodybuilding for decades has been to constantly do bulk/cut routines because all of the carbs makes them fat despite the fact that they pump themselves full of hormones that build muscles.

>Fat is literally directly stored as fat,
Patently false.
It is first broken down and circulates the system being used in necessary areas then is only stored if the body has not sufficiently utilized liposys to impliment all of it. This is also dependent on the type of fat as well as some forms (mct, and sct) are immediately used as energy and are unable to be stored by the body

The high carb moderate-high protein diet has been the norm in steroid circles and natural circles alike.
>inb4 all of them are on roids and anyone that isn't on keto is a steroid user
Dave palumbo pushes for retarded low carb diets and he's a jew high on test injections.
Steve Reeves was on a high carb diet during his prime(before any anabolic steroid was available to the american public).
Appreciate the anecdote, I experienced the opposite myself, sure the first week or two everything is nice, but then you get constant zombie state of being after training and low grade headache 24/7 for months on end and your muscles start to deflate.
Sure for fatties this might not be a big deal since they're used to feeling like shit all the time, but for people that are fit and lean already it sucks ass.

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Some dumb motherfuckers in this thread. Mindblowingly dumb and I don't even do keto, I do low carb however. If I was doing keto I'd be triggered, holy shit. Dumb motherfuckers

I eat tons of veggies and some meats with a fuck ton of olive oil and ranch. I'm closer to being a betatarian than on keto.

Stop being dishonest, fat is literally directly stored as fat, the fat you eat only has that destination, but your body is on a constantly low key or significant level of fat stores being released into the bloodstream, meaning that all of the fat that is available for your own organs is derived from the fat you ate and stored in your adipose tissue.
No one is getting even half of their fat intake from fucking MCT oil lmao.

I did keto to lose weight, worked.

Now I'm not so strict, but I still avoid plenty of carbs.

>fat is literally directly stored as fat

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idk what any of this shit means. i just eat some eggs and fruit in the morning, a grilled cheese sandwich for lunch, and pasta with vegetables for dinner then call it a day. works for me

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>fat is literally directly stored as fat, the fat you eat only has that destination

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how can someone unironically reach and stay in ketosis? do you niggas not have a beer from time to time?

lmao

It is.
youtube.com/watch?v=PQaHTdnNB2o

Dumbasses who have studied literally fucking nothing about the subject.
Yes, the fat you eat is stored, that's its only destination retards, you literally have ZERO arguments against this undeniable fact, you're delusional, absolutely delusional.

youtube.com/watch?v=tbutiVOebro

>listen to this fat guy who's on a high-carbs diet telling you that fat makes you fat, he obviously knows what he's talking about
Meanwhile in reality, no fat person has ever gone from high-carbs to high-fat and stayed fat. This is because insulin is mandatory for storing fat, and carbs always make you produce a ton more insulin than fat and proteins.

i feel that cutting back on carbs, like avoiding bread rice and grains, was easy to manage. i would have a granola bar or banana before lifting and id feel fine

That fat guy has actually studied biology and human biochemistry and coaches lifters and bodybuilders alike, unlike your anonymous dumbass.
High carb diets are superior for achieving a better body composition, carbs are not essential for human survival, but they allow us to be at our peak.
High fat diets are a retarded fucking meme spread by retards that have no idea what they're talking about.
Insulin is not required to be spikedin order to store fat dumbass, you really don't know what you're talking about and it REALLY shows.
>no fat person has ever gone from high carbs to high fat and stayed fat
according to who? you?
>carbs always make you produce a ton more insulin than fat and proteins
reason why bodybuilders and people interested in actually building muscle eat carbs, because they elevate insulin levels, and insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the human body, bar none.

>reason why bodybuilders and people interested in actually building muscle eat carbs, because they elevate insulin levels, and insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the human body, bar none.
Right, because insulin promotes growth, both in good and bad ways. It promotes muscle building, but also fat storage, whether you like it or not. Insulin (and thus carbs) also promote bad growth of cells such as tumors. You seem to be arguing against me on the basis that I think that high-fat is superior in every ways. I never claimed that. I also never denied that carbs build muscles. The only thing I'm saying is that it's bullshit to claim that the fats you ingest immediately get stored as fat. In reality, fat is more likely to get used as energy than carbs are due to the whole insulin thing. It's the reason why people will simultaneously lose fat and feel more energetic on a high-fat diet, no matter how much they exercises. Meanwhile people who eat a ton of carbs NEED exercise to feel good and not get fat, and those who don't turn into the typical obese American slob. It's sad that people like you still believe in the anti-fat propaganda spawned decades ago by studies promoted by the sugar industries.

Ketotards are dumbest, most delusional motherfuckers on earth. They walk around with sky high cortisol (all the time) due to lack of carbs, lowered testosterone, electrolyte imbalances that give them low grade headaches all the time, and zero fucking glycogen in their muscles. And so many of them were obese, metabolic dogshit that they actually prefer that state to what they were at previously. Of course, the Keri trade that weren’t previously obese have to rely (heavily) on stimulants, and many of these keto preachers are middle aged men on TRT.

Ketotards cannot think. A ketotard correctly identifies that foods like cake, cookies, pizza, and donuts have contributed in making people fat as fuck, and the ketotard (being brain dead) then makes the logical jump that the problems with these foods is that they’re “carbs” and they should stop eating oats, potatoes, and corn.

Keto is the most disgusting fad diet I’ve ever seen and its proponents are the dumbest motherfuckers on earth.

>Go out to lunch with a group of friends
>One of them is on Keto
>At one point he's screwing off the cap of an oregano jar and just eating it out in scoops
That was my first and only experience with someone on Keto and it was kek worthy from start to finish.

>good and bad ways
insulin is always present in your body regardless of your diet, and again insulin is not required to spike in order for 99% of the fat you eat to be stored in your adipose tissue, there's literally 0 need for insulin to be raised, insulin does indeed promote growth all around, the problem is that you always have insulin in your body, and spiking it doesn't do anything when it comes to fat storage from the fats you ate, even at an insulin baseline in someone who's been on a ketogenic diet or fasting for weeks straight the fats they eat are directly stored.
And no insulin is not the only thing that "blunts" fat burning, even fat intake itself blunts fat burning.
Insulin surpresses hormone-sensitive lipase and so does the mere act of eating fat.
>typical obese american slob
does not eat a low fat diet
>anti fat propaganda
which almost no one falls for because almost every american is eating a balanced ratio of fat/protein/carbs, they're simply eating way too many calories for this macro ratio to be healthy
>insulin promotes bad growth of cells
both protein and carbs increase insulin levels, I guess we better start killing ourselves on low protein low carb high fat diets
>The only thing I'm saying is that it's bullshit to claim that the fats you ingest immediately get stored as fat. In reality, fat is more likely to get used as energy than carbs are due to the whole insulin thing.
This is exactly the kind of shit one would find in a low carb keto zealout blog post.
Guess what, fat is so eficiently stored in mammals that you can even check what they fucking ate years ago by just looking at their fat composition in their adipose tissue.

>no one should care about weight loss unless they are a fighter or some shit
literally dementiaposting

weight loss is easy, what's hard is maintaining and building muscle while losing fat, that's literally the only thing that's worth worrying about, weight loss is a term for women and middle aged boomers that's meaningless for anyone with any actual body composition goals.

>>typical obese american slob
>does not eat a low fat diet
the typical obese person doesn't eat a low anything diet except for low in leafy green vegetables and healthy lean protein options.

>low grade headache

stop samefagging & maybe it'll fix your headache shakespeare

Y i k e s

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Yep, they think that the problem with those huge, greasy fast food burgers is that people were eating them with buns. It’s just pathetic.

the burger without the buns doesn't make me sleepy

>acting like highly refined and processed carbs aren't bad for you

lol

Bread IS the problem with burgers.

healthyeating.sfgate.com/consumed-fat-converted-fat-body-6862.html
Yeah not quite you retard

even if it was the case (it isn't) then by being in a state of ketosis you would be using it as fuel faster than it was stored or at least at equilibrium, how doesn't that sound awesome?

I eat about 100g of carbohydrates a day. Having tried everything, this seems to work best for keeping me lean, keeping my strength up, and overall health. I posit that there are many healthful diets, but they all have two things in common:
>low GI (often shorthand for low added sugar)
>low in omega-6 PUFA

The rub is that different people can have wildly different responses to various carbohydrate sources, so a serving of rice that causes a bump in blood sugar for one person may cause a huge area under the curve for another. Figuring out your optimal carbohydrate intake takes some trial and error. Congratulations if you can eat 70% of your calories from CHO and not have blood sugar/insulin issues, but it's unreasonable to think everyone can and should.

As for omega-6, they're a poor energy substrate, and pernicious in excess due to their readiness to oxidize in unhelpful locations (such as your bloodstream or in your mitochondria). Vegetable oil was a mistake. This one I think is a bit more cut and dried, I think these should be

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Nothing in that dumb article disproves the notion that fat you eat is stored.

renaissanceperiodization.com/case-high-carb-massing/

The more protein and carbs you eat the less fats you burn, but the fats you burn are fats that you already have stored, you don't simply use up fat you are eating as energy, they are stored first because they're already in their pre packed state, this is true in all mammals.
So in the end of the day, an energy balance still matters, UNLESS you have a very small ammount of fat in the diet and a very high ammount of carbs+protein, in which case this diet would be less fattening than a high fat+protein diet and would promote better body composition.

>in which case this diet would be less fattening than a high fat+protein diet and would promote better body composition.
Better body composition like all of those ripped fruitarians, right?

>even if it was the case(it isn't)
it is
>by being in a state of ketosis you would be using it as fuel faster than it was stored or at least at equilibrium, how doesn't that sound awesome?
No you wouldn't, it would depend on your energy balance.
The problem is that this is only looking at fat loss, high carb+protein diets are superior in this aspect, because not only do they allow u to get away with higher caloric intakes but they're also more anabolic overall.

>allow u to get away with higher caloric intakes

jesus christ what am I reading?

Yeah all those ones that don't even lift and eat fuck all for protein and a grant total of 2g of leucine a day from the 30 bananas they eat daily.
Great argument.

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words
renaissanceperiodization.com/case-high-carb-massing/
here are some more in case you are interested

>reading a link linked by someone who literally denies thermodynamics by saying you can eat more calories if they're this special kind of calorie that is worth less energy somehow magically

nnnnaahhhhh

We can all be right here, the best diet is the one that makes YOU lose fat and YOU can stick to.

I lost weight on balanced carb-protein-fat (40-30-30) because I stuck to it every day.

what if my diet is eating nothing but 1000 calories of hydrogenated trans fat and fibre

Try it, see how long you can stick to it without cheating or ending up in a hospital.

>We can all be right here, the best diet is the one that makes YOU lose fat and YOU can stick to.
I'm not okay with this. You can lose fat with any ratio of macronutrients, but some are objectively superior to others.

I'm not denying thermodynamics you absolute brainlet.
Energy from dietary fats is just not lost nearly as much in its metabolism as energy from carbohydrates and proteins, this is undeniable.
The more carbs you eat the more carbs are oxidized in their own metabolism.
The same isn't seen with fat.
Laws of thermodynamics still aply.

I'm not the guy you quoted but CICO is an oversimplification of digestion, which is quite complex.
You should learn a little bit about digestion and gut flora before spilling "LMAO CICO IS SCIENCE".

Petrol has tonnes of energy. Drink it and see how you go.
Your assumption that the human body extracts energy from all foods equally is ridiculous and idiotic. And if you really believe that then why do you give a shit about low carb anyway?

What about respiratory quotient? The fewer carbohydrates you eat, the easier it is to burn your own fat at a substrate level. Who cares about thermic effect if you can just burn your own body fat more preferentially?

Or adjust your calorie calculations of carbohydrate based on %intake, dial them down to 3.4/kcal/g or whatever. It's just better bookkeeping.

If you do it and it helps you achieve all your goals then it's a good diet for you.
Remember, if it's stupid and it works, then it's not stupid.

>why do you give a shit about low carb anyway?

switching to a state of ketosis reduces hunger pangs and provides a more consistent and smooth level of energy throughout the day as your fat stores are always there, no insulin spiking

>Yet all the people who adopt a high-fat diet suddenly start losing all their fat, even without counting calories
Yet when you do count calories and therefore have an accurate account of what is going on, low-fat diets burn more fat than high-fat diets
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4603544/

Yeah, you can feel like shit all day. By the way, what is with the obsession with insulin?

>what is with the obsession with insulin?

fat people are often insulin sensitive or even prediabetic you ignorant fucking tard.

also ever heard of being "hangry"? yeah that's from low blood sugar.

When you count calories on a high-carb diet, you're about 90% likely to fail because the constant hunger and low energy will be too painful to handle.

Eating primarily whole vegetables takes my hunger down for longer than keto probably thanks to my high fiber intake. I've never measured my insulin but I can tell you that personally I feel consistently better throughout the day on primarily whole vegetables. I don't keep track of my carbs but I'm sure I'm getting a ridiculous amount. Not saying keto doesn't work for you, but it's not a silver bullet that works perfectly for everyone. Sure if I had better willpower I'd probably be better off on keto, but I could also say if I had better willpower I could just jog my carbs off anyway.

That would depend on what you mean exactly by a high-carb diet. "High-carb diet" is as descriptive as the term "food." Frosted flakes aren't filling but barley flakes are. Candy isn't filling but lentils are.

just curious, what vegetables?

Are they prediabetic or do they have low blood sugar when fasting? You’re not making sense and have an oversimplified view of what insulin does. Likely you just have an emotional reaction to the word spike, and your angry response tells me your cortisol is high because you don’t eat carbs.

Don’t worry user. I got it.

I just had a peanut butter sandwich for breakfast, so..

You mean insulin resistant. Insulin sensitive is a good thing.

Not him, but I get very upset when people deny insulin's influence on things, because I'm aware that it's causing more health issues in society than anything else currently. Insulin is a worldwide threat by now and almost nobody is doing anything about it.

whoops

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> I'm aware that it's causing more health issues in society than anything else currently.
Because 100% of the information you get about disease and the human body comes from youtube Keto speeches.
>Insulin is a worldwide threat by now and almost nobody is doing anything about it.
The release of insulin is a normal human response to feeding and occurs even if you eat 0 carbs. You can say that chronically elevated insulin levels are bad, which is usually the result of insulin resistance, but you can become more insulin sensitive and thus bring down insulin levels by losing weight, eating less fat (particularly saturated fat), eating healthier carbs that are higher in fiber, exercising, and eating vegetables.

Zucchini, tomatos, cucumber, bananas, broccoli, cauliflower and cabbage are my staples.
I also eat carrots, eggplants, beans, oats and potatoes a few times a week (But cutting back on potatoes the last few weeks).
Then maybe once or twice a week I eat a steak or some rice or pasta. Have the occasional apple or pear once or twice a week. And usually take a bit of whey protein on workout days.
That said I still occasionally have fast food or drinks when I'm out with friends.

A few tidbits that jump out as I read:
>RC was >10% energy from PUFA (too high)
>RC was 29% energy from CHO (not what most low-carb dieters practice)
>the "isocaloric" diets aren't really isocaloric since they fail to account for TEF from CHO (-200 kcal difference, intothetrash.jpg)
>significant reduction in HDL in RF group
>nonsignificant rise in cortisol in RC group
>better satiety hormone profile in RC group, though nonsignificant

Interesting study with plenty of devils in the details, but always remember that metabolic wards ignore the variable that's most important in the real world: adherence.

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> (too high)
Too high for what? It doesn't matter if the diet they used was the perfect diet for health as determined by you, the study is about macro ratios and fat burning. Low fat diet burns more body fat.

>>Zucchini, tomatos, cucumber, bananas, broccoli, cauliflower and cabbage

just saying other than bananas and the last 3 things you said all of those are incredibly low carb and calorie for how filling they are. wouldn't be surprised if youre in a near ketosis state if that's really how you eat on most days.

Ratio isn't the only thing that matter when it comes to omega-6/omega-3, absolute value matters at a certain point - though the LF group also had a better 6:3 ratio.

Even ignoring that, you failed to address my other points, such as the fact that this study was not isocaloric and therefore utterly invalid.

>Ratio isn't the only thing that matter when it comes to omega-6/omega-3, absolute value matters at a certain point - though the LF group also had a better 6:3 ratio.
Again, the study is about fat burning and macro ratios. Neither diet was healthy, that's not the point of the study.
>Even ignoring that, you failed to address my other points, such as the fact that this study was not isocaloric and therefore utterly invalid.
You only other point you had that was relevant was your claim about a large metabolic advantage of carbohydrate metabolism, to which I say "okay"? If it's true, that further proves the point. Carbs > fat for burning fat.

Well maybe, but I'm definitely well over the 20g keto recommends. I eat two or three bananas a day and that alone kicks keto macros in the dick.

>two or three bananas a day

eh it really depends on the individual, some people can maintain a level of ketosis with 100 or less carbs a day, though I imagine that's pretty uncommon.