Hate doing rows

U stupid or what, you do rows AFTER you diddly (and squat). Doing them before its like doing skullcrushers before the bench press

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>still doing full body

Fuck off noob. Doing them after deads/squats and your lower back is guaranteed to fail before upper back moron.

Dont Egolift retard

Rowing is so fun. Rowing 176 for reps and watching these other basedboys using the cable row mirin me is fucking great.

Do them in a squat rack

Yes my dude, rows are great

Lol nice rebuttal, you should just admit you're retarded and have no clue what you're on about.

>Literally everyone does Rows
>HURR DURR THEY ARE SHIT

Great exercise, but the dude’s lumbar angle is too steep. A little less than 45 degrees is optimal

>he still deadlifts
deadlifts are truly a meme

Not even remotely my reason for arguing why BB rows are shit, basically just ignored all my reasons lol retard. I don't need (You)s if they're from some dipshit.

You don't know what muscle he's targeting, BUDDY

m8 people dont do shit exercises for years

>putting effort and concentrating on improving something makes you like it

Whoa crazy

>deadlifts are a meme
right. name a better exercise that not only fills out your lower back, but hits a group of muscles (posterior chain) that rarely get the adequate attention needed in lifting.

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It's not too steep. 45 degrees is not optimal because you will involve less of the mid-lower traps and train MORE of your upper traps.

You can either:

Switch to a chest supported row
Switch to a pendlay row where you wont exhaust the lower back.
Continue but train your core to handle the load

I agree doing normal rows isn't the best exercise for the upper back - think of yourself like a crane but without a counterweight. Instead of a counterweight, you end up putting the lower back under a lot of stress. Because of this, it is likely to receive a heavier beating than the upper back (though both will get trained). My preference is to just switch to an exercise which focuses on beating the upper back hard like a dumbbell row where you use your hand to support the weight. You can do pendlay dumbbell rows to really test your pulling strength, then add weighted pullups ontop of this.

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I'm arguing they suck dick compared to DB rows, not necessarily it being shit. If all you have is a BB then ok. Look up Wendler/Candito's videos on this .

Rows desu

Rows and squats/good mornings are as good for posterior chain. the only reason to deadlift is if you want to be good at deadlifts

T.b.h deadlifts are the best exercise for pure strenght gains. If you have a great deadlift you will have automatically good anything else

SLDL is a far superior lift. Even back extensions are better lol posterior chain wise.

>Doing variations of the DL when you probably dont even DL 4pl8

Rows are good for your lower back but not hams and glutes.
>squats
If squats are frying your hamstrings you aren't squatting right. They can't both hit your quads and hams (to a significant degree) at the same time. Inb4 someone argues Deadlifts can, no they don't, your quads are in a quarter squat position which ain't gonna grow your quads.

How does it feel to be wrong?

This, you will see gym guys with big chest and arms that are piss weak. I've never met a guy with a big back that wasn't strong as an ox.

have literally only done squats and SLDL and could easily deadlift 4pl8

How are you guys exhausting your lower backs before the upper shit? My lower back is weak as shit and I don't have that problem at all.

Th3y have shit form but wont admit it

Because pointing their flabby beer gut towards the ground directly strains their lower back

>Pendlay row 3x5
>weighted neutral grip pullups 3x5
>t bar row 3x8
Perfect back workout imo

i mostly lift for looks and don't find deadlifts to be worth it
1. they cost alot of energy and don't give too much in return
2. i don't care about my hamstring size

All you have to do is drop the fucking bar when you fail, don't waste the rack

You aint gonna look too great when you break your back cause it will be weak as shit

>working out your lower back

for what purpose

All you have to do is literally to lower the bar like if it was a deadlift, if deadlifting doesnt hurt you neither should rows at all

enjoy your injury in 4 months

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Jfyi pic related is a rear delt row

>interfere with lower back recovery for SQ/DL.
Use them as a dead lift accessory

Why 2 rows?

>his favorite exercise is an optional accessory

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The more rows the better

most of the people using them as a dead accessory do them Pendlay, which is very different to what OP is talking about.

Rows are as optional as squats or OHP

BB Rows aren't even in pure SS or TM. Hell, not even in 5/3/1

Rows are literally a fucking deadlift at the start and end, people saying they aren't a replacement for DLs are stupid, yes you aren't gonna lift the same amount of weight OBVIOUSLY but you are gonna train the same freaking muscles

Barbell rows are one of the dumbest exercises in existence.
>watched billions tutorials on youtube how to activate back more
oh ok this explains it op is so retarded he needs a billion tutorials to understand how to use his back so he likes rows too

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how do you activate back more then?

Try to break the bar. Sounds stupid, but works wonders, and thumbless grip, also do full ROM and cotract your triceps at the start of every rep so you don't use your biceps

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to activate your back better during bb rows you drop the bar and head over to the cable row station.

>Using anything other than Barebells and dumbbells

Never gonna make it

Phil Heath literally only trains with machines

How do you know if you never do them?

>does barbell rows
>TO ISOLATE BACK FROM BICEPS
ahahahahahahaha

>Rowing low weight is so impressive you guys

>tfw so fat can't find my lower chest while rowing

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Did them to see the carryover from SLDL. Near 3 plate SLDL and 2.5 plate high bar = easy 4 plate dead for reps.

Kys retard legit kys

Do them at 45 degrees or so, it doesn't work quite as well but it helps with a lot of the problems people have with strict bent over rows.

The clean
RDLs
High pulls
Reverse Hypers

Too much weight or you arch your back

Low bar squat. Only thing you don’t get is grip strength.

they don't work your hamstrings to a signifgant degree dumbfuck

Lmao how fucking retarded do you have to be to think this. Use your brain dumbfuck. Think about what the bottom position of a low bar squat looks like and compare that to the setup position of a deadlift.

you can't work both your quads and hamstring to a signifgant degree you absolute retard. That's like saying you can work both your biceps and triceps properly in 1 excercise..

Setup for dead should aboslutely not look the same as a low bar at depth unless you squat high fag. Deads don't work you quads properly as they're in a quarter squat position, hence why deads are able to work your hams.

you''re either a retarded dyel or parroting rippetoe/alan thrall

god your so fucking retarded. u should work out at the library instead cause ur so fuckin dumb. idiot

nice counterragument. it's ok to admit you don't know or you were wrong dumbass.

Any tips user? Always feels like I'm just activating my biceps...

I alternate seated cable rows and T-bar, are they good replacements for barbell/dumbebll rows?

Muscle ups

>you can't work both your quads and hamstring to a signifgant degree you absolute retard.
Oh really? so that must mean that you don't use your quads during a deadlift? Interesting hypothesis.
>That's like saying you can work both your biceps and triceps properly in 1 exercise
Wow you've identified the existence of compound movements! Maybe since the deadlift and squat involve knee flexion and hip flexion at the same time that muscles associated with both are used?
>Setup for dead should aboslutely not look the same as a low bar at depth unless you squat high fag.
Look at pic related and imagine the guy on the right moves his hands down to his sides while staying in the same position...looks awfully similar to a deadlift. It's not exactly the same but it's close.
>Deads don't work you quads properly as they're in a quarter squat position, hence why deads are able to work your hams.
Quarter squats actually predominantly do work your fucking quads which is why dumbass bodybuilders do them over full depth squats.
>you''re either a retarded dyel or parroting rippetoe/alan thrall
You are beyond fucking simple and forget that squats and deadlifts are compound movements. Knee flexion involves the quadriceps and hip flexion involves the hamstrings and glutes. Squats and deadlifts both to some degree involve both. You can tell how much a muscle is recruited from the angle of the flexion. If you look at a low bar you'll see that since the torso is angled more horizontally that the hip is recruited more and also the knee angle is reduced meaning that the quadriceps are recruited less. The same is true in reverse. No need to thank me for this basic anatomy lesson but my advice to you is to fuck off and die retard.

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Shut the fuck up faggot and do heavy yates rows

Your Point 1: A couple inches in knee extension is not an effective range of motion.

2. During the beggining of dead your hams are stabilizers until your quads extend a couple of inches at which point your hams and glutes do the rest of the movement. Once again a couple inches knee extension will not grow your quads.

Point 3
if you're hips are starting the same height in the photo in deads you aren't doing deads, you're doing a BB hack squat. Alan himself will tell you he make exagerations to prove a point. Active insufficiency is a very basic concept you retard.

Point 4. Once again not an effective range of motion JFC, show me a video with a bodybudler worth his salt doing legit quarter squats.

> knee flexion involes quads, hip flexion involves glutes and hams

Lmao it's the other way retard. The absolute state of Jow Forums if people think quarter squats will grow your quads.

Muscle ups combine 2 lifts, they aren't being work the exact same time.

phil heath pumps his ass full of enough roids to kill an elephant, what's your point

>Your Point 1: A couple inches in knee extension is not an effective range of motion.
never said it was
>2. During the beggining of dead your hams are stabilizers until your quads extend a couple of inches at which point your hams and glutes do the rest of the movement. Once again a couple inches knee extension will not grow your quads.
Again my original point was that the low bar squat is similar to the deadlift in terms of body position and muscles used. Both the low bar squat and the deadlift in my opinion are not effective quad builders I literally never said otherwise
>Point 3 if you're hips are starting the same height in the photo in deads you aren't doing deads, you're doing a BB hack squat. Alan himself will tell you he make exagerations to prove a point. Active insufficiency is a very basic concept you retard.
Once again I said it was similar but not the exact same. Please stop strawmanning me for the love of god.
>Point 4. Once again not an effective range of motion JFC, show me a video with a bodybudler worth his salt doing legit quarter squats.
THAT'S WHY I SAID DUMBASS BODYBUILDERS FUCK ME. Quarter squats give you a quad burn but obviously full ROM is better. Jesus christ dude I know that quarter squats aren't effective. fuck.
>Lmao it's the other way retard. The absolute state of Jow Forums if people think quarter squats will grow your quads.
No it fucking isn't holy shit. If you're sitting down take your leg and point it straight, do feel it in your glutes and hams? Now stand up straight and hinge at the hips without bending your knees and stand up straight again, do you feel it in your quads? No? Of course not. Once again, please kill yourself.

even athlenex says deadlifts are a leg exercise, and the first part of the lift is the same as a leg press
youtube.com/watch?v=hCDzSR6bW10

skip to 10:03

break the war which way? /-\ or \_/? up or down

my comment was on about how you can't work both your quads and hams siginifagntly at the same time. Your comment "Oh really? so that must mean that you don't use your quads during a deadlift? Interesting hypothesis."

Vs your current comment: "Both the low bar squat and the deadlift (which is a couple of inches knee extension ya dumbfuck) in my opinion are not effective quad builders I literally never said otherwise" and "never said it was
" Nice back tracking.

On my point 3: How am I straw manning when that was literally what you said, "imagine the guy on the right moves his hands down to his sides while staying in the same position...looks awfully similar to a deadlift." Once, again that would turn into a BB hack squat. I included the Alan Thrall comment because that is 100% where you got this retarded notion.

Also, I literally said quarter squats won't properly work your quads, and then you bring up that they will?? (read your own fucking comments)

You're making a trillion points then backtracking, it's extremely confusing/
Gonna be spending all night arguing with you. Seriously consider kys so I can get some sleep.

Once again you can push the leg press a couple of inches. Involves your quads yes, significantly work it? Absolutely not.

I never argued dead lifts weren't a leg exercise, nice straw man.

So you don't strain it picking up an 8lb gallon of milk when you're 70

Great thread
Rows are only worth doing if you are too weak for pullups by the way.

>implying cable rows aren't superior in every way

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I was saying that you do work your quads and hams at the same time because it's a compound movement. Whether it's significant or not depends on the particulars of what kind of squat or deadlift you happen to be doing. The more you use your quads the less you use your hamstrings and vice versa. So yes you do use your quads in the deadlift see . I notice that you didn't quote any of my posts where you claim that I said that quarter squats are good quad builders, I said that they do involve quads but I said that only dumb bodybuilders do them because...I think it's dumb.
>Quarter squats actually predominantly do work your fucking quads which is why dumbass bodybuilders do them over full depth squats.
See I said "predominantly" because a quarter squat does only involve quads. Notice I didn't say "effective" or "best". Also if the guy on the right in pic related brought his hands directly down they wouldn't fall behind his feet like they would need to in a BB hack squat, they fall in front of his feet, like in a deadlift. So once again, no. No, no, no, you failed to understand and you continue to disappoint me. Also if this is what you think counts as a "trillion" points then you must have a hard time in the real world.

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Careful, you could be getting a hernia.

Back at it again.

My comment: Deads don't work you quads (keyword) properly as they're in a quarter squat position

Your comment and argument: >Quarter squats actually predominantly do work your fucking quads which is why dumbass bodybuilders do them over full depth squats.

If you didn't disagree with that comment then why the fuck did you even argue/comment on it.

> "trillion" points then you must have a hard time in the real world.

Excuse me if don't meticulously read this heated Jow Forums argument, it's about 12 in NZ right now and I'm frankly quite tired, but not wanting to give you the idea you won if I sign out.

You didn’t address the fact that you don’t know what predominant means and that my original argument was actually about how low bar squats and deadlifts are similar and yet you’ve gone on this insane tangent about quads. As I said before low bar squats and deadlifts aren’t the best quad builders which actually bolsters the argument that they are similar Also you didn’t address my pic which I went to the effort of drawing a big fucking red arrow but I guess you’ve realised that you were insanely wrong and now have to fall back on the excuse that “oh you guise it’s so late, that’s why I’m stupid I’m actually sleepy xD”. Since you don’t want to argue in good faith then please get some shuteye for all our sakes.

I'd been doing pendlays and getting weight added to them easily. Yes, without cheating too much apart from maybe the last rep or two.
Improved power but noticed no full feeling of working the entire back or getting a pump.
So I've been trying bent-over rows instead and fuck the pump is insane. Admittedly I was doing a few extra sets each day to get the form down. But the activation through it all, and the eccentric component must be important.

So, which is better? Or should I just do both. Pretty weak btw; 85kg x5 Pendlay rows, 65kg x8 bent-over rows.

ice cube told me to put my back into it

Oh and let’s not forget the part where you unironically tried to argue that knee flexion involves glutes/hams and hip flexion involved quads. In case you’re so sleepy that you’ve forgotten
>knee flexion involes quads, hip flexion involves glutes and hams
>Lmao it's the other way retard