Strength then Size? Or Size then Strength?

>SS touted as being great mass builders
not really, it's just a beginner strength program.
anyway, size comes from FATIGUE. strength comes from adapting to higher loads.
you can easily work up a ton of fatigue at high reps AFTER having worked with high loads/low reps, can't you?
you won't recover as quickly, but that's ok. you just need to understand what you can recover from (without getting too fat), how fast your strength goes up, and keep lifting shit up.

Literally anything with linear progression. Just keep adding weight each week.

There is actually so much wrong with your post that I want to throttle you against a fucking wall.

I'd just give up already if I were you

Feel free to actually explain what's wrong instead of sperging out

>when it's hypertrophy focused programs that build muscle?
>when it's musclebuilding focused programs that build muscle?
This is literally what you are saying

What is there to explain? Your post has nothing good in it. You know nothing about the topic, build upon a foundation that is incorrect and yet you come here with your stupid theories instead of asking a humble question.
The reason people don't care to respond to you is because you talk out of your ass

>Strength then Size? Or Size then Strength?
Those are the same thing early in your lifting career. Just do some simple newbie program with emphasis of the compounds, then once you stall on that add on more volume and accessory exercises while being really fucking meticulous with tracking your calories and weight. Increase your weight slowly.

What is a "hypertrophy" focused program?

Progressive overload is the only way to consistently make gains as a natural.

If you're not actively trying to get stronger in the gym you are not making progress.

He's right actually.
A beginner should start with a high rep high set moderately low weight scheme.
They'll be safer, get the movements down, and won't be tied to a handful of exercises that have a hard limit to how far they can progress on them.

General weight lifting/fitness is an all encompassing lifting schema that includes everything from high rep low weight to high weight low reps and machines and cables and free weight and bodyweight.

Trashcan babby's first powerlifting is just a way to get dumb ass noobs into powerlifting and to normalize everything deeply fucking stupid and wrong with the lifestyle.
DONT WORRY ABOUT INJURY LIFT HEAVY
JUST SKWAT PUZZY
and shit like that.

It's trash.
Best part, it's trash for peak mass gain.

He's not though and neither are you.

>They'll be safer
They wont. You can injure yourself with bad form with high reps as well as low reps. Form breakdown also tends to be worse when going to failure on high reps than on low reps.
>get the movements down
Will also be done with low reps. Especially if you practice the movements with just the bar before a session (as you should)
>and won't be tied to a handful of exercises that have a hard limit to how far they can progress on them
No set/rep scheme is inherently tied to specific exercises. All exercises have a limit for how far they can be progressed with but there is zero (0) reason a beginner should fill his program with isolation exercises when a better result can be obtained with a relative minimalistic program that focuses on linear progression on compound exercises.

>General weight lifting/fitness is an all encompassing lifting schema that includes everything from high rep low weight to high weight low reps and machines and cables and free weight and bodyweight.
Congratiolations. You said something that were actually factual. Must be fun for you to try.

When all comes to all you need to get your numbers up when you start out. That is best done in the lower rep ranges and with a focus on compounds. You can do a million reps on a trillion exercises but if you're too weak to even bench 1 plate you'll never make it

Honestly this

>instead of asking a humble question.

Which is exactly what I did. The question I asked is why are programs like SS so often recommended to beginners who want to build muscle rather than hypertrophy programs?

Like someone else mentioned here, generally the more muscle mass you have, the higher your potential to lift heavy weights and progress linearly, no? So in a hypothetical scenario, if you have a twink dyel with barely any muscle, wouldn't it make more sense to have him do a high rep/low weight program first, to get bigger, and then start focusing on a full body program to get stronger?

My main question is this: why is it that SS and programs similar to it are the conventional recommended first step for a beginner, and not a high rep/low weight program?

>When all comes to all you need to get your numbers up when you start out. That is best done in the lower rep ranges and with a focus on compounds.

No one's talking about super specific isolation exercises for beginners here, compounds should of course be the main focus. If you have almost no muscle on you and no prior athletic experience, your linear progress will stall out quickly, unless you go on some rippletits type diet where you'll end up fat as shit.

You can progress just fine on LP at a small surplus though.

Back off sets? What does that mean?

>Like someone else mentioned here, generally the more muscle mass you have, the higher your potential to lift heavy weights and progress linearly, no?
This is just a weird question. You have more muscle mass because you are stronger. You don't have muscle mass that is just potential for getting strong.
>So in a hypothetical scenario, if you have a twink dyel with barely any muscle, wouldn't it make more sense to have him do a high rep/low weight program first, to get bigger, and then start focusing on a full body program to get stronger?
No it does not make sense to have him curl and do triceps kickbacks with 5 lbs for 3x12. It makes sense to have him get stronger because he can get stronger even if he is small.
>My main question is this: why is it that SS and programs similar to it are the conventional recommended first step for a beginner, and not a high rep/low weight program?
Because it's the quickest way to become stronger and you need to be stronger to be bigger more than you need to be bigger to be stronger. Generally speaking a muscle only gets bigger if it gets stronger. If you can lift a heavier weight you have become stronger. If you can do more reps you have become stronger. If you can do with less pause you have become stronger. In the end nothing you do will make you look good after 3 months but some things will make you stronger and thus give you a better opportunity to become good looking in the long run

But what if i trained in the past? (4 years ago i trained for 3 years) so i got the movements down. Have watched probably weeks worth of videos about exercises in total, so i know how to do the compounds with proper muscle activation and form and just want to become stronger because i believe strength is equal to muscle building for a natty?

Conjugate method with high rep accessory work

You're talking out of your ass. Linear progress will take you a long way if you push yourself and eat a sensible surplus. But no you will not have a year of LP. Noone recommends to run LP forever. You run LP as long as you can and then you don't run it anymore.
Are your argument against LP really that you stall out quickly and can't run it long enough? Holy shit you're stupid.

Reg Parks 5x5 is the best for beginners who want aesthetics

As long as you eat adequately and have a balanced routine you should gain both.

Strength gains come first though, if you're a true newbie to weight lifting your nervous system should see the most immediate change in the first few weeks. Size takes time to build it's not as fast of a process.
That being said SS is not a balanced routine imo but it's good for strength if that's your focus.
Honestly new lifters should do push/pull/leg or a 4 day split with 2 upper days and 2 lower days.
Also accessory lifts are fine for new lifters, especially if strength isn't the only goal just don't spend too much time on them.

>My main question is this: why is it that SS and programs similar to it are the conventional recommended first step for a beginner, and not a high rep/low weight program?
Because for beginners those programs have enough exercises, sets and reps to give them the progress they need both in terms of hypertrophy and strength. As you get more advanced more volume is added trough more sets, reps and variations and accessory exercises.

...

>talking out of your ass

I'm not writing a thesis you fucking moron, I'm asking a question. Goddamn you're retarded.

They come hand in hand
This doesn't mean only doing singles will make you ronnie coleman, it means that if you want to be at least decently strong you'll have to do a ton of volume work, which will get you pretty jacked

Go through blocks of both. A couple months of building muscle, then a couple months of refining that muscle and optimizing it for strength. Then repeat. This is the cycle that most powerlifters go through, and as long as you don't go buckwild with your bulk you'll get the best of both worlds

>"I'm asking a question"
>No questionmark
Yeah I'm the retard

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