I'm starting to see this new trend among fitness experts that back pain is actually normal, herniatied discs aren't a big deal and everything is in your head
what the fuck is wrong with these people, why can't they just adress the fact that deadlifts and squats will fuck up your back
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the rate of herniation between lifters and none lifters is pretty similar.
yeah source it faggot
You're misunderstanding. The thing you need to realize is that like 90% of the normal adult population has herniated discs. This is actually a big problem with people that just want to get MRIs taken all the time, because anyone can go in, then the docs see on the MRI a herniation and say "hurr durr gotta snapped back gotta do XYZ blah blah blah".
In the vast majority of cases of disc herniation, there are no symptoms, so just going off an MRI is stupid and is overtreating non-problems. And as previously stated, the incidence of herniation is just as high in the nonlifting population as it is among lifters. Your bitch-tier "hurr don't do scary compounds" might carry some weight if it weren't for the fact that lower back pain and herniations weren't common as fuck within the normal unlifting population anyway.
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educate yourself
>why can't they just adress the fact that deadlifts and squats will fuck up your back
nobody who sells coaching or lifting programs is going to be completely honest with you about the injury risks of squatting and deadlifting, there's a direct conflict of interest
plus they've spent years telling you how great squats and deadlifts are, they can't go back on this now, they have to die on that particular hill
i don't think it's as high as 90%, iirc it's like 50% of the population has asymptomatic bulged/herniated discs and the incidence rate is only marginally higher among athletes
but there's no denying that the vast majority of acute, symptomatic disc injuries caused by lifting weights come from squatting and deadlifting, that's just how it is, and it happens even at the highest levels where lifters have the most experience and near perfect technique
not saying people shouldn't squat or deadlift, just that they should be better informed about potential risk instead of people just pretending its totally safe and only catbacking your deadlifts on a bosu ball could actually lead to injury
That's a strawman and nobody has ever said it takes catback on a bozu ball to go to snap city.
>90% of the normal adult population has herniated discs
would you mind not pulling big fat shit out of your ass in public like that
9 out of 10 times someone says they herniated a disc from lifting they're full of shit
Ppl like perfect form like matt wenning has no injuries.
Oly lifters have them.
Sports competitiors have as much injuries as normal lifters. Some are birn weak. Many users skew injury ratios cause they get stronger than their frame handles.
Yeah sure, I'll do that when you develop a new set of punctuation I can use so that autists who don't understand general concepts without worrying about exact numbers don't get their panties in a twist. The point is herniations are common as fuck.
browse Jow Forums you'll see that all the time here
guys like Wenning are anomalies, has nothing to do with his form
Candito has good technique, hurt himself pretty bad squatting and has not really returned to form on that lift since, Mike Tuscherer has amazing technique, has had some real bad hip and iirc back issues, and then you have wormchad who actually tries to hurt himself each rep and somehow never does, dumb luck and genetics plays a massive role in all of that
no, you're hearing what you want to hear.
Lads I just started lifting last month and I think i have this. Apparently it heals by itself, anyone have any experience with this?
It happens.
Squatting and deadlifting will lead to back injury.
I don't give a fuck how perfect your technique is.
Of course the retards around here will deny it.
SS and accompyaning powerlifiting programs and shit like crossfit needs imbeciles who'll think the former is bad ass and working through the pain makes them real men and the latter to think that pain is good and means that they are one of them, you know in a cult like brainwashing environment.
I do.
It won't completely heal.
If you seriously snapped your shit up you'll have it for the rest of your life.
It will come back eventually.
And it will slap your shit.
This coming from a guy who just wrecked his back so badly he was mostly crippled for a near year. Also, It will come back and only stretching and light exercise and being good to your back for weeks will help.
L5S1 herniated here, 5mm with sciatic nerve conflict when diagnosed
Right now, I'm living two years without pain. Herniated discs are not the end of the world. It's not that big of a deal. Does it require treatment? Definitely, go to physical therapist right now.
Lifting with bad form can put you at risk, no doubt, but you know what's even worse? Sedentary lifestyle. The older you get the greater risk of having spinal problems there is.
Also, I fixed my sciatica with heavy deadlifts. I know, anecdote evidence. But don't blame the heavy compounds, blame people and shitty PTs who don't know what a good form is
>The point is herniations are common as fuck.
People herniate their shit buying groceries or bending to pick their kids from the ground. At least if you deadlift you can increase the muscles around your spine to rienforce it so you prevent herniating yourself doing mundane tasks.
is my shit snapped? they will only give me the result in a month, but this doesn't look good.
So you can simply bypass the lifting and just be active eat well and do something like bodyweight exercises and be 100% healthy strong and safe?
Okay good.
>what is progressive overload
>bodyweight exercises
They will only get you so far, look at the best calisthenics athletes, most of them incorporate weights into their regiment
Something that you can do with every form of resistance training period?
>cope
How does it feel to have shit form? And be weak?
The place that moderately advanced calisthenics can get you is further then the average person.
You don't have to ever touch a weight ever.
I mean, "get you so far" where on earth do you have to go other then being perfectly fit relatively strong and healthy into old age with minimum injuries?
Ripps back is fucked.
How are we telling people to listen to a guy who fucked up his own back with piss poor form.
Question to everyone with herniated disks here:
How heavy did you lift for that to happen?
>I mean, "get you so far" where on earth do you have to go other then being perfectly fit relatively strong and healthy into old age with minimum injuries?
Xenophon's Memorabilia [3.12.7] .... kαίτοι τῶν γε τοῖς εἰρημένοις ἐναντίων ἕνεkα τί οὐk ἄν τις νοῦν ἔχων ὑπομείνειεν; [3.12.8] αἰσχρὸν δὲ kαὶ τὸ διὰ τὴν ἀμέλειαν γηρᾶναι, πρὶν ἰδεῖν ἑαυτὸν ποῖος ἂν kάλλιστος kαὶ kράτιστος τῷ σώματι γένοιτο·
[Socrates has listed the disadvantages of poor physical condition.] [3.12.7] ... And surely a man of sense would submit to anything to obtain the effects that are the opposite of those mentioned in my list. [3.12.8] Besides, it is a disgrace to grow old through sheer carelessness before seeing what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit.
Okay. That has fuck all to do with fucking health.
That's exercise as a hobby, not for health.
And if you do it as a hobby then you have NO problem sacrificing long term health for ego stroke and for fun.
I grabbed a bucket full of grain on my grandpas farm. In order to get better, I had to start lifting and develop my core muscles
Were you fat?
no, skelly mode
Are we really going back to the
>stressing your back is bad uwu
bullshit? Really?
>implying all hobby lifters are egolifters
I get the feeling there's projection involved here.
you are correct, but only if lifting heavy
which is
200+kg bench (low change of injury still)
250+kg squat
330+kg deadlift
with recreational numbers, like 100.0% of Jow Forums lifts, there is basically zero chance of injury with mediocre or better form
Heavy is relative.
You can't claim that people can snap their shit by lifting a bag of rice at the local grocery store then in the same breath say that you can ONLY hurt your back if you reach some arbitrary weight from lifting.
It's fucking retarded.
Yeah, they are.
If they aren't lifting for health or for their job/sport then they are ego lifting.
Period.
No it isn't.
Stressing your back while doing heavy deadlifts or squats holds the possibility of quite honestly snapping your shit forever.
This isn't a fantasy. This is reality. And in some cases an inevitablility.
Anyone ANYONE who tells you otherwise is either a noob, a keyboard lifter, or a shill.
>If they aren't lifting for health
Do you not have any hobbies for health? Maybe that's why your back hurts.
Also what is heavy? How do you determine that?
Lifting is the least injury prone sport, besides chess.
If your worried about your back, more damage is done from pole vaulting and sprinting/marathon running.
The only way your back can get fucked up from squats is if you do the meme lowbar good morning squat, or deadlift stifflegged, with a significant amount of weight.
The most injury prone lift is the bench press, it’s the only lift that death is actually possible. Not only that but shoulder issues are common, which can be fixed to an extent with form.
>back is fucked
youtube.com
Man was in his late 50s when filming that.
And yet he's stronger than much of the younger population never mind 99.99% of people his age
yeah dude just because you bought the one way ticket to snap city doesnt mean that everyone is a raging retard brah
Of course you can talk about average numbers that will start to become dangerous. There is a well known average physique for a human male.
Of course you can snap your back "randomly" (by living most of your life lifting bags of rice in the wrong way, and being otherwise really unfit). But, this seems 100% unrelated to discussing the risks with recreational lifting (which are basically zero, in terms of back and knee wear).
Nobody cares if there is some certain (extremely low) percentage of outliers wo are really weak and small, who would hurt themselves at lower weights.
If you are one of these you would know. If you are not, you don't have to worry about anything before you approch 300kg on your lifts.
Like everything else in life its relative.
I expect a certain amount of discomfort during training cycles back included.
Generally speaking dull nagging pain is good. Shape shooting pain is bad.
Finally most people are bitches suck it up buttercup.
Yeah, heavy use of drugs and not giving a fuck about agravating old injuries tends to do that.
ego lifting really only applies if they are doing it for the room bonus points for shit form.
I lift heavy for fun. I enjoy bending the bar its an amazing feeling.
As to stressing your back during heavy lifts ... Duh Form and Safety pins negate snapping shit up/ The problems always happen when pushing the form against the bodies frame.
There are hundreds of documented cases of experienced high level powerlifters who' snapped their shit on warmup sets.
Look, let's not pretend that fucking powerlifting of all things is perfectly safe because they aren't lifting heavy enough weights.
That's just fucking idiotic retardation.
So you are ego lifting and you think that form and pegs are going to protect you from injury forever.
Okay, have fun.
Just don't fucking lie about.
George Leeman, one of the strongest fucking men on the planet says you people are full of shit and is upfront about how potentially dangerous the sport is.
I'd rather believe him.
>man who devotes his entire life and body to pushing the bounds of human achievement says doing so is dangerous
No shit.
that's completely, 100%, unequivocally wrong and you are totally retarded
the vast, vast, vast majority of people sustaining disc injuries from squatting and deadlifting or shoulder injuries from benching are well below those numbers that you pulled out of your ass based on your 1 year of lifting experience, you should never ever get complacent because a weight is "light" relative to some instagram powerlifter you follow or even light relative to your own 1RM, that's usually where injuries happen
>The only way your back can get fucked up from squats is if you do the meme lowbar good morning squat, or deadlift stifflegged, with a significant amount of weight.
bullshit, plenty of weightlifters who don't even know lowbar exists have back injuries, there is no arbitrary variant of a lift that is perfectly safe and impossible to hurt yourself with, you're like one of those retards who claims it's impossible to hurt your shoulders benching with DBs instead of a barbell
besides the amount of shear and compression on the lower back between highbar and lowbar is not even that different, very marginal differences that are probably offset by highbar having a little more ROM and a little more tendency for buttwink because people try to ATG meme
>Duh Form and Safety pins negate snapping shit up
proper form minimizes risk, but does not eliminate it, and safety pins are irrelevant since you don't need to fail or even come close to failing a rep to get hurt, stop posting until you deadlift at least 500lbs then you get to have an opinion (goes for everyone else too)
>why can't they just adress the fact that deadlifts and squats will fuck up your back
..if you don't have proper form, yeah.
Why the fuck are you so assmad over the fact that you are unequivocally wrong?
t. DYEL
Post body.
> (You)
>>Duh Form and Safety pins negate snapping shit up
>proper form minimizes risk, but does not eliminate it, and safety pins are irrelevant since you don't need to fail or even come close to failing a rep to get hurt, stop posting until you deadlift at least 500lbs then you get to have an opinion (goes for everyone else too)
Lol ... You do realize that is like the lamest of responses right.
If you cant lift X bro you don't know what you are saying.
As a person who does lift over 500. The most dangerous weight IMHO is actually 2.5 plates to 3 plates. Its heavy enough to bite you and light enough to be disrespected.
Safety pins are much more about the lifts you think you can make. Pure retard if not in place when going heavy.
People snap shit up getting out of bed of course they can do it in the gym get your head out of your ass.
>So you are ego lifting and you think that form and pegs are going to protect you from injury forever.
>Okay, have fun.
>Just don't fucking lie about.
>George Leeman, one of the strongest fucking men on the planet says you people are full of shit and is upfront about how potentially dangerous the sport is.
>I'd rather believe him.
I must be the worst ego lifter of all time. I don't post PR's or videos. I prefer to workout with minimal people around. I follow a workout plan and do not alter weight when people are around.
News flash nothing is going to protect you forever. Everything in life has risks.
The safeties are in place to reduce risk.
George Leeman opinion on what I do is irrelevant because his opinion is relative to becoming the strongest on the planet. Which is not even relative to the conversation.
So does it hurt to be as stupid as you?
You're litterally stating that that if you don't lift an arbitrary amount of weight then you're completely immune to injury.
Which is deeply fucking retarded no every fucking level imaginable.
I say it's retarded because the alternative is you knowing that it can lead to injury but you lying about it for your own reasons and benefits.
Also George Leeman knows more about the sport and has coached people who've actually gone on to do something.
You are some cocksucker on Jow Forums who is pushing the FORM PROTECTS YOU FROM INJURY idiots.
It won't.
If you're not sure about or don't want to risk injuring your back doing squats or deads then there are tons of safer alternatives.
So you're agreeing with me.
Okay.
I don't see a snap. The disc is herniated, but not too bad. You might have some weakness in your glutes from the nerve compression.
I have four herniated discs and vertebral fragmentation (L5) which basically put me out of commission for close to a year (it ended my senior high school season and almost put me in a wheelchair).
This wasn’t an instantaneous injury (although the vertebral fracture may have been), disc herniations require some time and repeated structural damage. But I digress.
I have never, EVER hurt my back in the gym using proper form. And I perform a majority of the compounds (OHP, bench, low-bar squat, conventional deads). Like somebody else has stated, this is entirely anecdotal evidence. But as somebody that suffered through years of frequent back pain as a teenager, it should hold some weight (pun intended). Performing weight lifting exercises with proper form will not murder your back.
Oh, almost forgot, here are my e-stats:
>6’0”
>23 yo
>205 lbs
>225 OHP
>335 Bench
>405 Squat
>530 Deadlift
God fucking dammit.
These two physical therapists need to return to basic pathophysiology. They fucking conflate a bulging disc (which may be asymptomatic) with a herniation (see OP's picture) which is a completely different phenomenon and results in symptomatic radiculopathy.
That's an L5-S1 herniation. It's, by far (>90%) the most common site of herniation. Are you symptomattic? Spitbalilng, but you'd probably have issues with ankle dorsiflexion (walking on your heels) or hip abduction (moving your legs apart against resistence).
Most patients will recover completely (about 88% from a recent meta-analysis) with non-operative care. Even so, that region is actually very amenable to surgery if your Ortho thinks it would be beneficial. You really tend to get into trouble with traumatic herniations or as you move up the spine.
You do not have an associated fracture from this image. Your injury is well below the conus, which is good.
So I'd probably recommend: 4-6 week trial of rest+PT. If that fails you could discuss with your doctor either a microdiscetcomy or selected nerve root corticosteroid injection.
The fitness industry is not known for intelligence. The fact is deads and heavy squats are really bad for you period.
I was unfortunate enough to have a herniated disc...and when I was diagnosed I had never lifted before. And I was unfortunate that it was symptomatic too. I had sciatica and postural problems as a result and pains in my upper thigh/hip area, and weird nerve-y feelings In my foot. its horrible guys, very bad time. sitting a lot is what makes it much worse btw. I did 3 months of physical therapy. (dont trust chripractors or acupuncturists or bullshit, tried em all did nothing, find a good physical therapist at a good hospital). now heres the shitty part. I got into lifting, but I obviously can't squat/deadlift or do bent over shit(per rec of physical therapist), so its really hard to design a program for myself. I would really love to do something simple like 5x5 or SS which are easy and consistent for a beginner to follow, but I can't because they involve squats and deadlifts. Now Im thinking of just doing 3x a week, 5x5 bench, 5x5 military press, 3x10 curls, and maybe like tricep extensions. idk. for legs and core I have exercises that my physical therapist assigned that I do on my own. every time I ask for help for making a program I get the same "dont be the standard gym retard and skip leg day", but I have to due to medical condition. Please help me design an upper bod only routine.