Why do almost all humans in their natural state eat meat if vegans/vegetarians claim humans are naturally herbivorous?

Disclaimer not a vegan
Evolved tendencies and "natural state" might provide indication towards the suitability of a meat component to diet, but that doesn't really say anything about the moral implications

This and also suitability doesn't imply necessity

it is a very strong argument, because if you have the data on which diet is natural to us, you can claim to be on the side of biology

Because vegans don't have an issue with hunting, they have an issue with the way the majority of animal 'products' are produced.
7/10 got me to bite

everyone can eat meat, just some ppl cant eat factory farmed meat with a gallon of coke on the side

>Because vegans don't have an issue with hunting
Bait that dresses up as a refutation of bait
I'm shocked in all honesty

The ones who argue that are retarded. The fact that we dont need to eat meat anymore is 100% true tho

No, it's the side of history that you can claim, and that's worth almost jack shit. If you can be healthy only eating plants then that is also a fact of human biology and it isn't one that is only knowable by examining what our ancestors ate. The nature argument only wins points with the dumb who believe natural (historical in this context) = superior.

>fallacious argument
>strong argument
Are you lacking of frontal lobe function

vegans are a mix. Some fully accept that veganism can only exist at all due to modern society and things like B12 synthesis. Others are even more delusional than usually and will unironically try to claim that eating meat is the weird aberration.

B12 isn't an animal product and neither are animals needed to consume it, and they never were in any point in time. "Modern society" has jack shit to do with anything to do with food besides the surplus of it all. It's not that eating meat is weird but eating as much of it and daily on top of that is weird. Your diet especially if you're living "traditionally" should either be 90% meat or 90% plants and the portions should be about 200% smaller than modern ones.

Where does the B12 in vegan-approved B12 supplements come from, and is it a source that could feasibly be utilized before modern times?

Boy are you dense. The appeal to nature is valid in this argument because what is most natural to us is healthiest to us

And still others are dangerous fringe loonies who think their strictly carnivorous pets should be fed vegan diets as well.

my cousin is one of those fringe loonies. She just had her first child and she's feeding the poor boy onions-based meat substitute shit instead of breastfeeding. Do what you want with your own body, but ffs don't feed that shit to a baby still undergoing development. Hopefully he doesn't grow up to be a tranny or faggot.

Please enlighten me how being on the side of hundreds of thousands of years of evolutionary history backed up by archealogical findings is worth jack shit. Based on history we can find innumerable tribes and societies that thrived on nothing but meat and were the epitome of health, but once we start looking at societies with grain and fruit in their diet we start to see a shorter populace with missing teeth

It's worthless because that doesn't trump the scientific consensus that eating a plant-based diet can be nutritionally complete. Show the data that people raised vegetarian are shorter than average or have poorer dental health. Then show how the cause was that they lacked animal products, specifically, as a food source. It would be scientifically groundbreaking. You keep looking over your shoulder because you seem to think there is some as-of-yet undiscovered property of meat that is vital to optimum human health which is why our ancestors ate it and why we should continue to eat it.

Maybe it's simply the case that meat was once needed as a calorie source, but since the invention of agriculture, more and more, eating meat is purely to satisfy our craving for it.

>what is most natural to us is healthiest to us

Lol no, that is an appeal to nature.

The fact that many things which are natural is healthy is not evidence to conclude all natural things are healthy or the most natural things are the healthiest

FPBP

Nah not how evolution works. Traits are only selected up until breeding age, so between 20-30 now days. People gernerally die from heart disease later in life, much after thet have procreated.

The most absorbed form of B12 is cyanocobalamin, which is synthesized, and that is why modern cyanocobalamin supplementation of livestock and milk makes B12 deficiency practically unheard of. Wild B12 are two other forms I can't remember off the top of my head and it's found in pond and "wild" water and other places where it can be produced by its bacteria. As far as I know B12 ironically largely came from well water and rivers. Your entire question is retarded and irrelevant. If I'm a modern person, speaking to you on the internet, eating a modern diet, and having a relatively new philosophy on how to view animals in terms of how popular it is, why the fuck am I suddenly supposed to be a traditionalist Amish cunt for one single fucking rock? How about you write me your response on paper and send it by snail mail by a guy you've paid to deliver it on horseback? Dumbass.

B12 in older times basically everywhere. It's bacteria. Any pond or natural water source will naturally have a good amount of b12 in it.

>just like we did with drinking milk
You make it sound like the world is comprised of nordcucks and britbongs.

Even if there was they're not worth mentioning

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So are you trying to say that our ancestors got their daily requirements of B12 by drinking pond water? Come on now.

based schizo poster

>baby boy of breastfeeding age
>so no teeth
>onions-based meat substitue
>meat substitute
Meatshills are the absolute shittiest fucking liars on the planet.

if they existed they would've told everyone they are vegan by now

It was some ground up shit, I'm not an expert on your shitty soimeat bullshit. They were feeding it to the 7 month old baby

Mmhmm

>Vegans are deficient in vitamin A and D both of which are only found in animals
>youtube.com/watch?v=4nf7wAMwfrw
>youtube.com/watch?v=p7x8XtDBljU
>youtube.com/watch?v=p6JBICT9OQ4
>youtube.com/watch?v=ZDS_th9WPLE

Which one of you fucks has been larping for this whole time

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>boy are you dense
>is determines ought

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Those hunters in your pic did not kill the turkey to eat it, but to pluck its feather and wear it on their head.

Retarded meatcuck

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Is there anything unnatural to us that is healthier than a natural counterpart?

As far as scientific data is concerned, we can both pull up studies supporting our position, so that leads to a dead end. What is left is anecdotal evidence and principal. If you want a nice mountain of anecdotal evidence, check out weston a. price's book. Tribes that remain on a primarily meat based diet have good health and proper bone structure. Those that switched to a carb based diet look deformed. As for principle, that is what i was referring to earlier. If we as a species evolved to eat a specific type of food for hundreds of thousands of years, switching it all of a sudden doesnt make sense. Remember that food isnt just calories in different forms; each different plant and animal product effects our body in a different way, holistically speaking

>As far as scientific data is concerned, we can both pull up studies supporting our position, so that leads to a dead end
An attempt was made
Anyone can produce studies

Up till recently we ate a meat based diet. So according to you that doesnt amount to much of anything, even though our biology is dependant on it

We don’t. We claim humans are naturally murderous, slaving, heirarchial, rapists with a lifespan of 30 and a taste for all the major components of heart disease. The Vegan philosophy is that these natural traits are all negative and eating meat should be disavowed by society like the rest of them.

>P is associated with Q
>therefore Q is required by P

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fpbp

Up till recently a large number of the population smoked. So according to you that doesnt amount to much of anything, even though our biology is dependant on it

>avoid all the shit that's being pumped into them
it goes the same for plant foods though, with pesticides and filthy mexican hands picking your fruit

buying organic (and/or grass fed, wild caught, pasture raised, etc etc) is as good as it gets for both plants and meats/dairy, unless you own your own farm

Early stages of humans were not herbivores but focused more on a fruititarian diet. Eating nuts and tart fruits while yes - eating meat and other foods as a necessary energy source but no way were humans full on carnivores.

t. vegan

There is one that eats 90% plant diet, but thats about all.

NPC response, holy fuck this keeps on happening

omnivore, nigger

Humans are omnivorous. As a doctor, who had to go through university (not american, so we actually learn things) listening to teachers systematically verbally wreck every single vegan student who tried to argue with them, I can only laugh at vegans. They're always dumb and uninformed, but arrogant to the point of thinking they're "the authority".
Bonus points: watching a vegan/libcuck who defended abortion getting rekt so hard she left the class in tears and only showed up for finals.

>Early stages of humans were not herbivores but focused more on a fruititarian diet
I think you mean hominid not humans. Humans have always eaten meat. I mean we didn't hunt the turnip into extinction.

Hominids have constantly evolved to eat more and more meat, culminating in our current dominance of the planet.

In the most primeval state, humans were living off fruit gardens. then came agriculture, and then subsequently came pastoralism, animal husbandry, and nomadism

I don't know how you could be more wrong.

I'm right.

how do vegans explain human teeth?

Dude, you're american. Fuck off with your typical ignorance.

>Why don't you stop eating meat?

Because I don't want to become a sickly anorexic vegan?? Humans have one stomach, same as other carnivores like lions and wolves. (Not four like sheep and cows)

Go against nature and eat like a sheep, with the stomach of a wolf??? Ends badly.

youtube.com/watch?v=EFF30jfTubU
youtube.com/watch?v=1HwBtRlyxPs
youtube.com/watch?v=PJnPZgLHHWQ
youtube.com/watch?v=4nf7wAMwfrw

No. Some explorer at some point traveled the world trying to find one, and he found none. He found plenty of cannibal tribes, though.

History was faked it's a huge conspiracy

Are you actually retarded?

We haven't been in our 'natural state' for before recorded history, we don't really know what our natural state is. Maybe when we started hunting is when we stopped being 'natural'

Prove it.

Based Vegan user. I'm not a vegan, but this is probably the main reason why I'd potentially swap to being a vegetarian. My girlfriend hates meat so I'm probably gonna be living relatively close to the vegetarian diet if we move in together, since we've agreed we'd split cooking.

Its quite obvious that we evolved our intelligence because of hunting.

Only after agriculture came along, and we needed to feed vast hoards of peasants did we start to introduce grain into our diet. Meat has always been the primary food for humans.

>Fuck off with your typical ignorance.
Ignorance that butchering tools predate harvesting tools by about 3.4 million years?

Because hunting and eating meat is an easier way to get calories than foraging. However when humans began to farm, eating carbs and plants became the easier way to sustain themselves

Given that veganism is literally completely impossible in literally every single environment on earth, no of course not.

>. If you can be healthy only eating plants then that is also a fact of human biology
Well, that's not true so I guess vegans are shit out of luck.

These are freaks that eat all raw or no grains or some other rubbish, theres plenty of nutrient dense foods that aren't made from animals.

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>So are you trying to say that our ancestors got their daily requirements of B12 by drinking pond water? Come on now

Where do you think humans got their water for tens of thousands of years before modern plumbing?

>Vegans are deficient in vitamin A and D both of which are only found in animals

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Springs lol

Very likely mostly from water contained within the flesh of animals.

BASED

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reddit hates vegans so maybe you belong there lol

cause vegans are retarded

Organic doesn't mean shit, don't bother. The amount of pesticides on both organic and non-organic fruits and vegetables are the exact same because they're stored and shipped in close proximity to each other.
By the time that shit reaches the store they're almost identical other than the fancy tag and higher price.

poor argument. how's that diet of raw, freshly killed and unsanitized meat going for you?

we are omnivores, not like wolfs or sheep. more like ... raccoons. we were mostly scavengers before the neolithic, and even then we were eating whatever we could find (ie.: neanderthals ate more mushrooms and roots than meat by recent studies)

Nice

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>neanderthals ate more mushrooms and roots than meat by recent studies
Post LITERALLY even ONE (1) single study backing that up. LITERALLY every single historical anthropologist EVER agrees that non-sedentary Eurasian cultures ate a diet of up to 90 (NINETY) fucking percent meat.

You really like allcaps EMPHASIZING. I forgot to add "in some regions" to that part. As you can see diets were very vast depending on the regions the groups were inhabiting

nature.com/articles/nature21674

I'm not going against that we evolved to eat meat (omnivore point) or that we got much more into hunting after the inventing the tools for it (neolithic point), that would be dumb and inaccurate. All I was saying is that the "carnivore" crew gotta chill when they think of themselves as lions and wolves (muh wolf stomach), once again, our dietary needs are closed to small omnivore mammals - which in hindsight we were since our stature was significantly shorter at the time.

Humans thrive on pretty much ANYTHING because that's what we evolved to do. It's not an either/other thing like some idiots like raw vegans or Sv3ridge (and their retarded minions) like to think. That's my point

>dental wear and microbiome
>did not even perform isotope analysis on bones
Into the trash it goes, there is also the fact that this reflects one (1) community in a subtropical zone. I do agree that we are omnivorous, but with a seasonal pattern and an emphasis on meats.

People who claim that have never tried to live off the land.

In the thumbnail I thought the indians were trying not to laugh, like they were pulling a dumb prank

Humans are not meant to eat meat or drink milk.

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Humans in their unnatural state still eat meat.
Humans might have been doing a multitude of different things concerning their diet since humans have "became" a thing, but that doesn't mean we are 100% adapted to them or that we are even able to thrive.
most of the pesticides bioaccumulate very well in the fat of animals, specially DDT.
there's actually very little difference between organic and traditional plant products in most cases except maybe fruits, because organic products are subjected to organic pesticides lmao, and even worse the concentration of those organic pesticides aren't as regulated.
That's like asking for a tribe that ate animals, there has never been one.
Furthermore even if there were vegan gatherer pocket populations it doesn't mean that's what our health would be best on.
Humans more meat adapated than chimps and gorillas are, but it doesn't mean we maximize longevity with a meat based diet.
Look at the traditional inuits, fatter than average danes, severely shorter, and life expectancy was low, they had the most animal based diet in the entire planet, and their health was terrible, their bone density was atrocious compared to that of westerners, specially vegetarian westerners.

that ate only animals*

this might shock you but soil on which plants grow on contain b12 producing bacteria, there are cases of vegans who grow a good portion of their own food in their own gardens and their b12 status coming up good even after severeal years of no supplementation or animal products.
No there has never been a tribe or society that thrived on NOTHING but meat and somehow managed to be the epitome of human health.
Even the most animal based hunter gatherer populations like the eskimos suffered greatly from their diet, no single population or tribe has EVER thrived on nothing but meat, that's just paleo retard fantasy.

Continuing the circle of life is moral as fuck.

>born with lactase permanence
> not meant to drink milk
Pick one, tardo

> If we as a species evolved to eat a specific type of food for hundreds of thousands of years, switching it all of a sudden doesnt make sense.
Why not?
A lot of people are more than happy to cease the consumption of certain food groups such as grains or legumes, even though we have clear adaptations to these since we have been eating those since before homo sapiens.
We have the most starch adapted digestion in all the great ape family, does that mean not eating starches doesn't make sense? A lot of people would argue that it does make sense.
I agree that food isn't just calories, even comparing micros and macros doesn't tell us the whole story.

Because even obligate omnivores/carnivores like polar bears manage to almost double their maximum life expectancy when given a diet that is unnatural to them in captivity.
Anyone that claims a "natural" diet is healthy is completely disregarding the very fact that no society had a fucking clue about what foods optimized their health, most of them were so clueless that they literally had meme shit like feeding children nothing but highly concentrated sugar in order to make them healthy, and not to mention all of those hunter gatherer tribes that suffered copper and vitamin A toxicity from over eating the organs of animals in their delusion that eating them would provide them with more "life giving spirit".
Don't believe me? Check for yourself.
Bears fed fucking fruit and vegetables live longer than bears eating a more natural diet.
You literally cannot make this shit up.

>captive polar bears are fed fruits and vegetables
lmao what