What's the general consensus on using the smit machine for all available lifts? I'm doing SL 5x5, and my current gym doesn't have a squat rack or deadlifting area. I'm thinking about just using the smith machine for all lifts.
The only problem I've heard in the past is "stabilizing muscles". Are these the type of muscle that get bigger with heavier lifts, or is it just gym talk for "being able to balance an oly bar"?
All discussions and hate speech is welcome
>I'm doing SL 5x5,
Read the fucking program before you do it.
Follow up question: has someone experimented with only using the smith machine before, and then went on to see if their barbell lifts were comparable?
you will die using this, somebody post the webm of the dude failing a 2pl8 squat in a hotel gym
I'm more than familiar with the program. The lifts are Squats, Bench press, OHP, Rows, and Deadlifts. These are all doable on a smith machine.
What does the routine have to do with my question about the smith machine?
If you had actually read SL, you would have found the part where he says not to do it on a Smith machine.
Don't just download the app, read the actual program. You're just like the retards who do SS without reading the book, except you're even more retarded since SL is only like 2 pages of reading.
I'm interested in seeing that. Did they forget to put the safety pins/ bars in?
The main issue I have with the smith machine is that the one in our gym is slanted, which seems off. But I just adjusted my stance, and the squats were no problem. It's also easier for me to go ATG.
This might be a bad thing though. I always felt off balance going ATG in the squat rack before. I don't want the smith machine turning me in to a bitch.
>What's the general consensus on using the smit machine for all available lifts?
Not to do it but your gym only has that so train with what is available. Maybe include dumbells if you're concerned about stabilising muscles.
Do it for a couple of months and see what happens.
>I'm more than familiar with the program.
No you aren't, see
Now read, nigger, read!
I've read the program. I have the webpage bookmarked on my computer.
What does this have to do with the smith machine?
Don't lie on the internet when it's obvious. Like that other user is saying, the author very clearly says not to do it on a Smith machine.
Like I said, I don't have a choice at my gym. The whole point of this thread is to dissect why we shouldn't. All I've heard so far is issues with stabilizing muscles.
However, the smith machine makes it easier to push/ lift more weight, which has helped many people break plateaus and build a bigger chest/ shoulders than they were able to with a normal barbell.
I've read many comments about people who were unable to build a big chest until they incorporated the smith machine into their routine.
>I've read the program.
No you fucking haven't, but since you're going to insist on bullshitting to save face on an anonymous image board, here's the large section you would have seen if you had so much as glanced at the table of contents.
>Smith Machine
>The smith machine is not a Power Rack. Don’t use a smith machine for StrongLifts 5×5.
>The bar moves freely in the Power Rack. But with the smith machine it’s attached on rails. That means you don’t decide where the bar goes. The smith machine does. It will force you into fixed, unnatural movements. This can hurt your knees, back, shoulders, wrists, elbows and shoulders.
>There are newer 3d smith machines that attempt to fix that by allowing horizontal bar movement. But the bar is still attached on rails. So the machine is still balancing the weight for you instead of letting you balance it yourself. This takes work away from your muscles and is thus less effective.
>The smith machine looks safer since the bar is attached on rails. But it has no horizontal safety pins to catch the weight. If you fail, you have to quickly rotate your hands to rack the bar. It’s easy to miss the pins. If you do, you’ll get sandwiched between the bar and the floor – like this guy.
>One common mistake is to start with the smith because you can’t balance the bar. But this doesn’t teach you to balance it since the machine does it for you. When you switch to free weights later, you’ll still have trouble balancing the bar. You’ll have to take weight off to train your balance.
>This is like using training wheels to learn how to ride a bike. Sooner or later you have to remove them. And when you do, you still have no balance because you didn’t practice it. You’re just building bad habits. This is why kids now use balance bikes instead of training wheels.
There's more, but it's too long.
Then do a different routine or go to a real gym.
>I'm doing SL 5x5
>no squat rack or dl area, only smith
No, you are not doing SL 5x5. and you cannot do it with a smith machine. smith machine is horrible for you long run, the extremely limited barpath will leave a lot of muscles underdeveloped and can damage your joints. Make sure you watch videos/read on how to properly perform the lifts with barbells after you get a better gym than Planet Fitness
You won't get as strong as if you used barbell or dumbbell, and it can also get kind of annoying with the bar being totally fixed if you are trying to move a bench in or something, with centering. I think you can grow muscle with this, as I have seen some guys who do most, if not all their routine in smith machines that are pretty well built, it's just not optimal. I myself have only really tried smith machine exercises once for like a few months or so when I was like 18-19 and I saw no carry over what so ever to my regular barbell and dumbbell movements. Obviously it was a short period, but I did flat and incline bench, seated shoulder, and squats, and none of it carried over at all. I should add, I was already trained in barbell movements first obviously and I didn't start from the Smith machine.
The only thing I'm doing in the Smith machine now is I'm trying RDL's there, and that's only because I read on TNation (yea some fuck is going LOL at that) that doing RDL's and Hip Thrust in the Smith Machine can help you control them better and can help your glute contraction. We'll see. I've only been doing it for like almost 2 weeks, and it feels so freaking weird.
I did SL on Smiths machine for almost a year and switching to real barbell was hell. I progressed a lot faster when I made the switch though. Don't do Smiths, avoid it like the plague
>However, the smith machine makes it easier to push/ lift more weight
>push/lift more weight
No it doesn't. It may look like more weight, but the actual load is probably less.
As others have said, you can't do SL on a Smith machine, and using one for anything except maybe bench and OHP (in the perfectly vertical one) will injure you eventually.
I'm telling you I read it, and I've already addressed what I've gotten from the passage.
>it forces you into unnatural positions when lifting
No, not really. If you already know proper form, you'd be doing it this way regardless. The slanted smith machines are weird, but they follow the direction that most lifters recommend anyways.
And yes, the balancing issue is the biggest problem. My question is "do the stabilizing muscles get bigger with heavier weights? Because I've done ppl for a year at my old gym, and have no issue with balancing/ stabilizing. I know proper form. How much am I missing out on, really? if I use a regular bench press later, would I be able to assimilate and jump over easily with similar weight?
And yes, my smith machine has adjustable safety pins. I just have to find out before each lift where the pins need to go in case of an emergency.
As the first user said, read the program.
Mehdi explicitly states why you shouldn't use Smith machines:
The smith machine is not a Power Rack. Don’t use a smith machine for StrongLifts 5×5.
'The bar moves freely in the Power Rack. But with the smith machine it’s attached on rails. That means you don’t decide where the bar goes. The smith machine does. It will force you into fixed, unnatural movements. This can hurt your knees, back, shoulders, wrists, elbows and shoulders...
...If your gym only has a smith machine but no Power Rack, switch to a real gym or build a home gym. Don’t risk injuring your joints by forcing your body into fixed movements with heavy weights.''
Another point to make, don't be egotistical and think you know what the best thing to do for strength routine. Learn and build knowledge for sure, but until you are an expert, listen to them. Smith Machines are a waste of time, and disregard all thoughts of using them. Godspeed.
>No, not really.
Yes, really. If that's your form normally, your form is shit.
Alright, I got the point. And no, I don't go to planet fitness. It's just a small town gym thats right next door to me.
Unfortunately, the smith machine is all I have in terms of squatting. I have a bench press here, and can probably find a spot to deadlift with the bench press oly bar when the gym is empty. When it comes to OHP, I can either use The bench press bar, or Dumbbells. But there is no way to squat here without the smith machine.
>>it forces you into unnatural positions when lifting
>No, not really. If you already know proper form, you'd be doing it this way regardless. T
I don't want to hurt your feelings, but your form is not proper if it looks like a Smith machine. Why even come here for advice if you're just going to tell everyone that they're wrong and that you, a brand new lifter, know better?
New gym or new program, pick one.
You have dumb bells? How heavy are they? You can do DB versions of both squats and deadlift if it comes down to it. I don't know if it exactly works for 5x5, but you can still get a workout with them.
I am in no way new to lifting. I did ppl or a year, as well as lifting all throughout high school. I just got over a broken neck and back injury, and am starting again at a new gym.
I'll find the post if you wish that shows the best way to push more weight is to push the bar up and slightly over your head, instead of towards you toes. The only difference is the slight movement you make to unrack and rerack the bar.
Reading these posts I've determined OP is a bitch nigger
If you aren't new, don't do a beginner program.
>I'll find the post if you wish that shows the best way to push more weight is to push the bar up and slightly over your head, instead of towards you toes.
>some retard on Jow Forums said it so it's true
wew
Dumbbells only go to 80 here, and I'm deadlifting 380 and Squatting 150. Squats are low right now due to aforementioned injury.
Why are you trying to do linear progression at your level? That's dumb as fuck.
It wasn't fit, it was a lesson on powerlifting. And the only reason I'm on this program is to get back to my old lifts, while seeing how much weight I can handle. Like I said, I broke my neck and back, and lost a lot of my lifts while I healed.
If you aren't new, don't do a beginner program.
>one single source said the opposite of what literally everyone else says
>that means it's right
It's not a single source, buddy. It's the very core of what they teach for powerlifting. Like I mentioned; I'm not new. At all. While my knowledge of the smith machine is limited, it's starting to sound like I know a lot more than you do in terms of form and lifting in general.
I don't like not having a power rack. But I'm making due, and right now it seems like only my squats will suffer. It's not ideal, but I'm pretty sure I'll do just fine.
As I stated, I've lifted before using barbells and Dumbbells, so I'm no stranger to being able to stabilize.
Are you stuck in this town long term? There is no other gym around? I mean you could try a faux 5x5 in the Smith machine I guess, it just wouldn't be as optimal as free weight. You can still get a good workout with DBs up to 80 too if it was a short term type thing.
Also curious on the injury. What happened, car accident? You take a fall or something? If anything, DBs could be a could thing for that with little pressure on the neck from no barbell up there. Could be DB squats, goblet squats, split squat(rear leg elevated or not) stationary or walking lunges, etc.
It is a single source, which disagrees with the vast majority of other sources. If you want to fuck your shit up, go ahead.
>They suck
>It's all Planet Fitness has
>Just do your program but pay special attention to your spine
>n00bs almost certainly quit
>get a proper gym arrangement when you start to feel guilty for missing a workout
>which is not yet
I'm in your boat. Less optimizing; more lifting.
There's a gym about 5 minutes away, by it does not have a squat rack either. The gym I was going to before, which I have a free membership for since I helped put it together when they first came to town, is 20 minutes away. It has everything, but it doesn't have a shower. It's in the town I work though. I just don't want to go to the gym smelling like shit from work, and I don't want to drive home, shower, drive back to the gym, and then back home. The gym I'm goin to now is literally one block away.
And I broke my neck and back in a car accident. Seatbelt broke my back and airbag broke my neck. Luckily I was the only person involved in the wreck.
I'm pretty sure I can do the squats just fine with my injury, but I have to start of light since I don't know my limitations yet. I'm already in constant back pain, and I don't want to aggravate it unnecessarily.
> I just don't want to go to the gym smelling like shit from work
What new level of autism is this?
I work construction and landscaping. I don't want to go to the gym right after work smelling like dirt, sweat, and testicle juice. I'd have to drive 20 minutes to my house, take a shower, drive back, workout, and then drive back home to shower again. That's some bullshit.
Just smell bad at the gym like everyone else.
>my current gym doesn't have a squat rack or deadlifting area.
Find a better fucking gym
How much would you smell? I mean honestly, do you work construction or something? If it's not a job where you are getting dirty and you are just sweating normally at like an office thing or something, I wouldn't worry about it. You're going to sweat anyways.
On the car accident, god damn that sucks. Like you say, good think only you were involved it sounds. More people involved, the more complicated obviously.
I guess you do work construction. I don't know. I guess just bare through it at gym? Are you planning on picking up chicks or being social there? If not, really don't worry about it. If yes, I guess just spray on a little bit of body spray or something, just not too strong?
You know what? Fuck it. Now I'm only going to use the smith machine. For every lift. It's already proven that the smith machine WILL allow strength improvements and growth. The downfalls aren't that bad as long as my lifts progress. I'll see you guys in a few months with results/ updates.
Bro, you are going to do what you are going to do. I just hope you don't cost yourself gains to spite anons on Jow Forums that you'll see or hear from again. Smith is better than nothing at least.
>hate speech is welcome
Fuck you nigger.
good, eat shit faggot
>getting so mad that you'll fuck up your gains to spite Jow Forums
>all because you don't want to take advice
We can't stop you, but you aren't really getting back at us this way.
*never see or hear from again
GL bro. Don't listen to these newfaggots ya know bro?
So what if no physical trainers have ever recommended a smith machine, ever.
Who fucking cares bro, what do they know anyway?
And ya, so no professional weight lifter, even a vegan, would recommend a smith machine, so what...
I mean ya, maybe they are dangerous because the human body was never meant to do assisted 'on track' lifting.
I mean ok, so our bodies evolved to lift without a perfect track. What does nature know really? I mean, it didn't invent the microwave.
I'm with you bro. Smith it up every dahyuh dude. I regularly use a smith machine and my gains are tremendous.
pic related.
nigga u dum