KETO

Yeah I plan to do 40 hour fasts in between eating so this might work out for me.
I thought it was easier to get into ketosis the longer you fast?

Found it easy for me to lose weight on keto, however after 6 months closer to my goal weight my libido and lifts suffered quite a bit. That was fixed after reintroducing carbohydrates

Look up peer reviewed articles. A lot of the research I’ve seen is done on mice or rats for the sake of high control.
Keto works based on what I’ve read, but do your own research.

>I'm researching keto on leddit right now. Is it a good source for accurate information
r/keto is an echochamber of idiots

Here's some human research

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27385608

Calorie for calorie, Keto has no benefits for fat burning

>In summary, we found that a carefully controlled isocaloric KD coincided with small increases in EE that waned over time. Despite rapid, substantial, and persistent reductions in daily insulin secretion and RQ after introducing the KD, we observed a slowing of body fat loss. Therefore, our data do not support the carbohydrate–insulin model predictions of physiologically relevant increases in EE or greater body fat loss in response to an isocaloric KD.

You don't have to do keto, but the low carb aspect of the diet really does limit how many calories you would normally take in. Factor in that high protein will satisfy your hunger better, and it should be easy to lose excess fat

>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27385608
A four week study is honestly somewhat dogshit desu.

Do it yourself and you'll not the difference between week 4 and week 20. You feel totally different. Also, CICO is for brainlet carb-addicts and is baseless in the real world.

It's 4 weeks long because of how precise the measurements are. 20 weeks is not feasible for a study like that. An anecdote about "feeling totally different" is not a valid response to that study and cannot be taken as evidence for anything.

Well YOU

And if the study was 20 weeks long, he would say it's dogshit and it needs to be a year long. If the study was a year long, he would say it's dogshit and "some of the most amazing keto weight losses cases I know happened over 5 years" etc

If keto didn't work we wouldn't stick fatties on it to make them lose weight and burn fat before allowing them to have gastric bypass surgery. No need for any controlled studies over short periods of time, we've already made thousands of lard asses do it and it works when they follow it. Under 20g by the way, not fucking 50g.

Keto works if the diet contains few enough calories to allow weight loss, just like any other diet

When given directions one of the big reasons it works is because we give them caloric shakes with no carbs/sugars/gay. Very high in protein and vitamins. We specify what type per individual. So calories are taken into account by a type of control through these shakes, making them very full without a ton of sugar calories. The shakes still have calories themselves and the individual's eating is not controlled by us. The fact of the matter is, when they follow the steps we give then we'll enough, it works great. A controlled environment over a short period of time doesn't give them psychological freedom, which is huge to weight loss.

you're pretty slow, huh

That's cool, but it doesn't change the fact that CICO is still the phenomenon in play and, calorie for calorie, keto has no fat burning advantage over other diets.

If your objection to that is just to say that it's more filling than a sugar-based diet, okay. You can avoid sugar, eat plenty of filling carbs, and not put your body through ketosis.
I don't know what you mean by psychological freedom either if you're also telling me you work with obese clients and have total control over what they eat, restricting them to just premade keto foodshakes. How sustainable is that?

It helps because being overweight can lead to insulin resistance, and the best way to cure insulin resistance is to chronically reduce insulin i.e. eat less carbohydrate

You're correct but you ignore the fact that spiking insulin, while maintaining a calorie deficit, is more catabolic to muscle than lowering insulin and allowing the body to more easily access fat stores. Calorie restriction with a high carb diet can increase cortisol and inflammation. Of course CICO holds but the question is about where does the weight come from, how easy is it, what other stress is your body put under.

Keto is a low inflammation, low insulin, highly satiating diet which is why people find it much easier to lose weight.

Having total control over what they eat is restrictive. We provide the shake mix or let certain patients know the brand and make so they can purchase it and inform their insurance. When we restrict through controlled means, we create stress. We simply give them guidelines or meal plans. Whether they do it or not at their own home in comfort is up to them. We don't control a thing. Far better results that way. That's why controlled human testing, especially over the course of a single month rather than 10-12 weeks in an uncontrolled environment is a terrible idea. When people are left to their own devices, we also see that they want to succeed more to get the surgery and begin to change habits. What a short control does is give them an expectation that doesn't follow through. Mind over body is one hell of a drug.

Please tell me this isn't a tranny.
Kinda looks like Baily Jay but I don't think so.

>you ignore the fact that spiking insulin, while maintaining a calorie deficit, is more catabolic to muscle than lowering insulin and allowing the body to more easily access fat stores
Any study you can cite for this? The 4 week study posted earlier refutes that claim already.
>Calorie restriction with a high carb diet can increase cortisol and inflammation
Any study you can post for this, preferably one that doesn't use refined sugar as its primary carb source? It seems an odd claim to make when most anti-inflammatory foods are high in carbs, like fruits and whole grains

>We don't control a thing.
So there's no way of knowing if the person you're giving the meal plan to is even following keto. Any example of "look how well keto works" could just as well be an example of how well a non-ketogenic diet is working.
>That's why controlled human testing, especially over the course of a single month rather than 10-12 weeks in an uncontrolled environment is a terrible idea
It's not a terrible idea, it's just testing something different. If there is a claim that keto has special fat-burning properties that make it more effective at burning fat than other diets, regardless of calories, that's easy to test and is provably false. The thing you seem more interested in is how satiating and easy to follow keto is, and it may be, but it doesn't seem that keto advocates are interested in testing keto versus anything but junk food.

Im not a keto lover, but youre missing the point. KETO makes it easier to eat fewer calories, thats its magic. Or at least thats their claim. It makes attaining a cal deficit easier.

>youre missing the point. KETO makes it easier to eat fewer calories
Easier than what? Any decent diet should make it easier to eat fewer calories. It's not a unique feature of keto.

>It's not a unique feature of keto.
Except it is, fat is more satiating than carbs. Also most people have some form of sugar/carb addiction so cutting them out makes abstaining all together easier. And when your body is used to running on ketones you get hungry less.

Ketosis occurs when your liver has depleted its glycogen fully. The liver becomes acidic and is breaking down fat which it uses for energy. Prolonged fasting puts you into deep ketosis, the kind of ketosis where you can’t sleep because you have excess energy from ketones. A lb. of fat has 3400-3700 calories. Imagine your body burning lb of fat a day. Your pissing out almost 2000 calories as your resting metabolism is low during a fast.

>t. doesnt believe in metabolic rates or that a body adjusts its metabolism

>Except it is, fat is more satiating than carbs
You can't just make a general statement like that. You don't eat macros, you eat food. There's a spectrum. Some carb sources are very satiating, while others aren't. Plain white potatoes for example have one of the highest satiety scores of any food
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7498104
That same study found that, while protein correlated well with satiety, fat didn't.
>Protein, fibre, and water contents of the test foods correlated positively with SI scores (r = 0.37, P < 0.05, n = 38; r = 0.46, P < 0.01; and r = 0.64, P < 0.001; respectively) whereas fat content was negatively associated (r = -0.43, P < 0.01).
The three main factors in satiety are protein, fiber (a type of carbohydrate), and water. Keto foods have protein, very little fiber, and little water. Something like beans or oats are a mix of all 3.
> Also most people have some form of sugar/carb addiction so cutting them out makes abstaining all together easier.
I think you're talking about refined carbs specifically, like soda, cookies, snack foods, etc. I don't know many people that can't stop themselves from gobbling down lentils, boiled wheat, and peas.
It's a non-sequitur to say "I eat too much candy, so I'm going to stop eating oatmeal, kidney beans, and sweet potatoes" and I disagree that the best option to fix an addiction to sugary processed foods is to become addicted to salty, fatty foods. That's just going from one extreme to another.

You can find supporting research for anything. That don’t mean shit. It works because it works you dumb nigger.
Just listen to people who do it.
CICO with carbs wasn’t working for me, keto did. Idgaf what you say BECAUSE IT WORKED FOR ME AND THE OTHER DID NOT
write a bibliography response if you want. It’s all BS. Keto and IF works, period. It’s catching on BECAUSE IT WORKS.

>You can find supporting research for anything.
Just not in support of keto apparently, because everyone tries to just say "this is how it works, it definitely works, I don't have any research or references, you just gotta believe it-- and also not believe the research that outright refutes keto"
I just can't do that, Chip

just do intermittent fasting, keto sucks you will have no energy and your lifts will go to shit

Keto raises estrogen levels higher than a pregnant girl. You'll get gyno in the first week and your gains will disappear

>Keto raises estrogen levels higher than a pregnant girl
Source? I believe you id just like to read it.

He's trolling you

>trolling
Grandma people dont say that anymore

keto is better for weights, carbs are good for sports and cardio

I love her so much

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I only do keto because I get acne from carbs and sugars

Who is this goddess?

Whats this cuties name??

Her name is "my waifu"

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just eat less calories. unless you have a rare medical condition that it helps, like seizures, there is no reason to do keto vs just counting calories

you wont be hungry enough to eat that much. it's so easy. I don't count calories I'm down 60lbs

Thank you, someone who understands what the point of keto is. It's not some magic diet where you'll lose more weight faster at a certain deficit compared to another diet with the same deficit, its benefit is that becoming fat adapted (i.e., body going into ketosis) helps people feel more satiated throughout the day, resulting in less of a chance of that person over-eating. There's a big difference between eating a meal that makes you actually feel full for a couple hours vs a meal with the same amount of calories that only makes you feel full for 30 minutes. You're more likely to succeed if your meals leave you satiated longer. That's what keto does, as well as bringing the other benefits some people report (steady energy levels throughout the day, reduced inflammation/bloating, etc).

This study has no relevance to the discussion of the practicality/effectiveness of keto vs traditional diets. It would need to be conducted vs a different group that's in ketosis to measure the differences in food satiation between them. This is a weak study in the context you're trying to present it, and rather disingenuous.

Does your diet have a special name with strict yes and no foods and schedules rather than simply being a healthy lifestyle change? If so, It's memeshit.

Dude what are you talking about? The only way to make a healthy lifestyle change is by having strict yes and no foods and schedules.

Keto helped me lose 50kg its awesome. There's always someone bashing keto in these threads not sure why. I think people should just try it for themselves and see. Keto works really fast you'll see results within a month if done right. If it doesn't work just go back to your carbs or whatever, nothing lost. Been doing OMAD keto first time seeing abs definition it's great

You'd have lost that weight so much faster if you just fasted like a normal person

Low carb in general is just good. You eat more protein, more healthy fats if you aren't retarded, and less carbohydrates. Most people in western countries eat too much sugar and bread and shit. Just try it for a month and see if it works.

But the really important part isn't some magic diet. Any diet with a calorie deficit will help you lose weight. The important part is finding a diet you can stick to long term.

If you're a meat and cheese and egg type guy, keto/low carb is great. And it's plenty healthy as long as you are also eating vegetables. It's also great for insulin sensitivity.

But if you really can't give up bread and pasta and keto just makes you miserable just try something else. You can eat moderate amounts of bread and pasta and still lose weight on a regular diet. Really eating more healthy fats, more whole grains, and more protein is just good advice for anyone's diet. Most murricans eat a lot of garbage.

This is a retarded question but will I be able to tell if something is a healthy or unhealthy fat based on the nutriton facts? Also this keto "bread" doesn't look too bad, only 1.5g of carbs per slice. I could honestly see myself doing keto since they have substitutes like this

Attached: best-keto-bread-sliced-straight.jpg (600x400, 42K)

>This study has no relevance to the discussion of the practicality/effectiveness of keto vs traditional diets.
Of course it does. The main reason people are interested in keto and the main thing being shilled about keto is that it's particularly effective at burning fat, beyond what a measure of calories would predict. When you put that claim to the test, it turns out to be false.

The last thing keto fans are trying to hold onto in light of that now is that keto is more satiating than at least the standard American diet, disregarding that many other non-ketogenic diets are as well.

The reason why this is important to bring up is that the fat-burning advantage claim was touted as a unique benefit of Keto that put Keto above other diets. If all it has is the generic effect of satiety, then there's little reason to bother with it over other, healthier, more balanced diets.

Oh, my bad, you're talking about the study of food satiety, not the fat burning study.

Even so, you're again making a claim that even though some carb-heavy foods are more satiating than protein and fat heavy foods, and that fat itself when separated from protein isn't very satiating, that keto magically changes everything, and that needs to be accepted without any evidence. For all the claims people want to make about keto, there doesn't seem to be any research that validates it.

>the average ketard doesn't know what beta-oxidation

pathetic

>muh key tones means I'm in fat burning mode

Count calories. You'll have to do it on keto too faggot.

Look for monounsaturated fat and avoid polyunsaturated fat. It usually says it on the label underneath total fat. But you can look up foods high in monounsaturated fat on the interwebz. Think nuts, olives, and avocados. Also saturated fat is pretty benign so don't worry about it. And yeah i never looked too much into low carb bread or anything but as long as you dont exceed your carbs goal you're fine. Keep in mind that carbs add up quickly and you want to make them count as far as in the most nutrition per gram.

anybody interested in keto should be forced to watch this video:

youtube.com/watch?v=G4_HLyxQly8&list=PL5Lb4uA3Y0JeeshPef_Ln4v91yAhvvRgw

stop listening to reddit's broscience.

Keto is a fucking meme, you will lose all of your muscle. Your body needs 2-3 g of carbs per lb of body weight to maintain/gain muscle.

Move along, brainlet. Name dropping shit you skimmed through in some pop sci article doesn't make you look smart.

>all it has is the generic effect of satiety
this is the conclusion I came to after reading up on keto
enlighten me

meant

>all it has is the generic effect of satiety
this is the conclusion I came to after reading up on keto
>other, healthier, more balanced diets
enlighten me

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This is your brain on sugar addiction

>generic effect of satiety
That's a pretty fucking significant effect when it comes to dieting my friend

How do I get to this stage? It sounds great.

still waiting for even a hypothesis on how keto increases metabolic rate. unless you're saying it violates energy conservation, in which case kys

yes but the other user is saying there are better high-satiety diets, which I'm curious about

You're assuming that burning protein, fat, and carbohydrates are equally efficient processes.

He probably means high fiber which helps you feel more full and carbs from whole grains digest slower which is better for your blood sugar.

biochem major, fuck off

Ana de Armas, i believe. Spanish actress. Was in Blade Runner 2049.

Damn if you wanted to waste your money you could have at least bought penny stocks or crypto.

Do you desire a qt gf to love and hold? Cells

European too ;) and I hold plenty of crypto from airdrops

>enlighten me
Just going by the basic principles of what is accepted as a healthy diet, the food groups most widely considered healthy are
>vegetables (allowed on keto for the most part)
>fruits (not allowed/severely restricted)
>whole grains (not allowed/severely restricted)
>legumes/beans (not allowed/severely restricted)
>nuts/seeds (allowed on keto)
(who.int/dietphysicalactivity/diet/en/)

So keto virtually eliminates 3 out of 5 of the healthiest food groups, and, although people may argue and say there are nut and fish based keto diets, most keto diets that are recommended are high in meat and cheese, and therefore saturated fat rather than unsaturated fat, which is also universally considered unhealthy.
(heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/fats/saturated-fats)

The only time keto seems to make sense is if you preface the diet with "sugar is bad for you" and hope that the person listening thinks that sugar and cheese are the only foods that exist, and so if sugar is bad (easy to convince people of) then cheese and bacon and butter by default are good (well it must be, that's all that's left to eat, right?).

Meanwhile there are diets like the Mediterranean Diet, the DASH diet, Nutritarian, etc that center around healthy foods, exclude unhealthy foods of both the sugar and saturated fat variety, are satiating and weight loss promoting, nutritious, widely endorsed and have well documented health benefits aside from weight loss.

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Post one actual study showing saturated fat is bad

One actual study

bmj.com/content/314/7074/112.long
There's the results of 395 individual experiments

Of course anything I link, you'll find a reason to deny. "It should be 400 studies-- no, 500!"

This response makes me really happy, because to an average American it's incredibly well written and even profound. This means that this shit is more ahead of the curve than I thought so I won't have much competition chasing QTGFs.

>keto zealots create straw man with sugar
>all keto people eat is chuck roast and cheese

>heart.org and who.int without any studies

Holy shit! That's actually a lot of studies user. Damn I'm going to start adding more double bonds to my fat intake.

Thanks user :)

If you're being sarcastic, it's not a strawman to say keto is heavy in meats, cheeses, even butter. That's what the vast majority of keto books recommend, that's what the vast majority of keto speeches recommend, that's what the vast majority of people in this very thread recommend.
>If you're a meat and cheese and egg type guy, keto/low carb is great

On the other hand, to act like all carbohydrate containing foods should be avoided because pure white granulated sugar is unhealthy, IS a strawman argument. Refined sugar and other processed carbs are actively discouraged by everyone. It's a universal point of agreement. The argument that keto promoters need to make then is not against sugar, but against whole food sources of carbs. They rarely try that though because there's really no argument you can make. The diet is built on that strawman.

OOF

Imagine watching a 1 hour video filled with bullshit. Bottom line is fasting+keto is the fastest way to lose weight.

Source?

Source: Every fat person who easily lost weight on keto and IF

I said picking a diet you can stick to is what's most important. Go about it however you want as long as you get the nutrients you need and it's something you can maintain long term.

That's not a source, that's an unverifiable anecdote of what isn't even an experiment to begin with.

healthline.com/nutrition/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets
Not him btw

>fatty spends long stretches of time consuming no food, then eats a keto meal
>I lost weight, it must be the magical properties of the keto diet that science has yet to discover

Nigga the absolute fastest(but retarded) way to lose weight is from an extended water fast that’s like 30-60 days. Guess what happens during the fast. K E T O S I S

I have been on a psuedo keto diet 80% protien 20% fats 0% carbs for 5 weeks now eating 1000 calories a day and so far have been losing close to 4 pounds a week. What makes this sort of diet so great is that I never feel hungry at all. If I were eating this low and filling myself with carbs I wouldn't last as long as I have.

You don't need to keep keto up once you have lost the weight. It is something temporary. I would hate to eat like this forever because I love carbs.

Does anyone have any decent, preferably cheap keto recipes? I'm an absolute brainlet, during a manic episode last week I decided I'd do the whole keto thing and just threw 5 lbs. of chicken, a couple bricks of cream cheese, and a bag of spinach for good measure into my slow-cooker. I gave to admit I didn't eat for a long time after, but it's mostly because choking down that slop made me kind of want to fucking die.

Keto lowers your metabolism because it's a fast mimicking diet, a carb based diet doesn't.
What's your point again?

>spiking insulin is catabolic
>insulin
>catabolic
Dude, insulin is more anabolic than fucking testosterone lmao.
There's plenty of evidence showing that just the mere act of raising insulin PREVENTS in large part the breakdown of muscle proteins for gluconeogenesis.
Growth hormone which is elevated on a fasted/ketogenic state on the contrary doesn't show such a thing, and it also is not anabolic at all for muscle tissue even when injected.
Insulin on the other hand is anabolic if injected and even in natural physiological ranges but also lowers your hunger if you're healthy, it's a satiety, anabolic, anti catabolic and nutrient storing hormone, it literally promotes the transfusion of amino acids into your muscles but also promotes retention of minerals and vitamins.

Whole grains are empty calories. You might as well replace them with leafy vegetables.