redpill me on (cow) milk Jow Forums
>estrogen occurs naturally in cow's milk
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
>"The collected data from other researchers and our own data are indicating that the presence of steroid hormones in dairy products could be counted as an important risk factor for various cancers in humans."
If we are to avoid onions-based products because of phytoestrogens why wouldn't we also avoid cow's milk?
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ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
thehealthyhomeeconomist.com
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trips get
I drink milk for every meal and i have so much body hair people would probably shoot at me if i walked around shirtless. Maybe focus more on actually lifting then whether or not fucking milk will give you bitch tits. Protip: it wont . Just stfu, quit being a little bitch, go lift some fucking weights for once and actually eat some god damn food and quit being so picky. Im tired of these god dam threads
We have the sticky
You know how to get big
So knock it off with the shit posting and just do what you know you have to do. Jesus fuck
>onions bad
>milk good
I know how to get big, I want to discuss wether estrogens in milk will fuck my shit up since I am a male. Discouraging discussions about diet in a fitness forum makes u fkn gay u lil cunt, I bet ur an incel manlet who recently read the sticky and think ur hot shit, well I've got news for u kid, people laugh at ur 1pl8 compound lifts and ur acne won't get better till u stop sucking dick u gayass nigger.
It depends when the cow is milked. Know when your farmer is inpregnating the cow and take a milk break till a month post calfing. Wala. The hormons in modern milk are only harmfull when taken during the late pregnancy.
If you're drinking milk without working out its bad, but if you do the opposite its fine.
We don't know that, the time of the milking matters indeed you're right, but there are only 2 studies done on this, one was published, mongolian cow milk failed to show any estrogenic effects in mongolian children, while western imported cow milk did show some,that study was not published though. Mongolian cows are not the same as western cows, they are much smaller and have smaller tits and their hormonal balance is much different from that of western inbred cows.
It's actually alarming how there are only 2 fucking studies on this, and only one was published, in fucking japan.
In this study cow milk shows estrogenic effects in adult males, children and adult females, testosterone is suppressed and estrone, estradiol, progesterone all go up as a response to milk consumption.
semanticscholar.org
I haven't found a single person that is pro dairy debunk this study, it's the only one that was published and actually put cow milk's estrogenic effects to the test on human subjects.
this just proves that there are estrogens in the milk, it doesnt prove that it does anything to you
there is no evidence on food doing anything bad to your hormones. Also the reason why the onions meme thing is a meme
We do know that. And even if we that into account that milk is not part of the japanese diet and therefore they will react differently than europeans which had milk and the second food source after meat for millenia.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
I'm not saying that there aren't any hormons in properly made milk eitherm, but if you are fit and cut your exposure to artificial endoctrine disruptors you will not have any problems with the normal intake of milk. It's not the milk which is fucking up the western world.
>I never ever did any research but I know how things work
Why would they react any differently to the very same hormones we have, steroids survive digestion they're not like insulin and growth hormone peptides.
Keep in mind this is the only published study that puts this to the test, there is no published study that disproves the estrogenic impact of cow milk in humans.
And no, we do NOT know if cows are kept pregnant only for a small portion of their lives and they're only milked way after pregnancy that their milk won't expose humans to any estrogenic effects, there are 0 studies on this, we only have assumptions looking at the hormonal concentrations in cow milk during pregnancy cicles, but that's not a study done on human subjects.
>It's not the milk which is fucking up the western world.
How would you know?
All the big dairy consumers are experiencing extremely fast declines in sperm count and testosterone, all of scandinavia, british isles, usa, canada, australia and germany are good examples.
Asians and africans have much higher consumption of persistant organic pollutants, plastic particles, pesticides than white westerners do.
>wala
le 56%
>Why would they react any differently
Because, you know, evolution is a thing and the races aren't build equally. While northern europeans can drink milk intoa dulthood most of the world can't. This means that we have evolved and that it was an evolutionary benefit to consume milk. So the only problem can be found in the way in which we produce it.
If mik hasn't feminished men in the past couple millenia, it wont do it today. But japanese never had this evolutionary pressure, so they might very well react differently to it - just like they react differently to alcohol.
You are blaming a product which we europeans have drank for before agriculture in the caucasus. 'm with you about studying this topic, but we realyl have more important food safety things to bother about than milk. Just think about PFC, PVC and BPA plus all the other plastics which actually do massive harm to your health.
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Done on overweight, infertile males. Their onions consumption was based on a questioneer Lmaoo
debunked bro
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Lmao did you even read this? it even says they dont know if it has any effect
>The biological effects of onions isoflavone exposure as a result of SBIF consumption are controversial and inconclusive. In summary, only one retrospective study has reported effects of feeding SBIF on health outcomes at adulthood and few studies have examined infant health after exposure to SBIF. While studies using a variety of animal models report negative effects of onions isoflavones exposure during development, it is unclear whether these data can be extrapolated to human infants
Here is says effect on humans is unclear
Debunked again
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
>but whether phytoestrogens in onions formula are biologically active in infants is still an open question
Destroyed yourself again
Eat onions nothing will happen, there is no proof against it. Its a huge meme
>being this new
I'm an austrian, I just like to trigger sensitive frog eaters.
>We did not find significant correlations between isoflavone concentrations and the levels of certain hormones in children fed onions formula. Our results, based on much larger numbers of infants, strongly confirm previous reports, but whether phytoestrogens in onions formula are biologically active in infants is still an open question. We plan further longitudinal studies focusing on physical and developmental findings reflecting the effects of estrogen exposure.
you also posted a correlation study, there are plenty of those, including fatty dairy being associated with infertility in males.
Also, here's a funny one.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
both onions formula and cow formula show estrogenic effects, but cow formula much more so.
>debunked
I don't think the word means what you think it means. Maybe drink some milk and eat some meat, vagine.
>semanticscholar.org
Just read the entire article
Estrogens go up by miniscule amounts
No control is listed
They dont list the amount testosterone goes down. Newsflash test goes down after consuming food anyway l m a o
Another one debunked
>vagine
Projection
>because evolution
provide a theory based on mechanisms not just on conjecture, asians metabolize onions's isoflavones differently from westerners, but in a negative way, their gut bacteria feed on these isoflavones and produce equol which is far more estrogenic than onions's isoflavones, equol producers are far more common in asia than in europe.
This is an example as to why "evolution" is a shit argument.
There is no difference in the hormonal metabolism between the races, the steroids we consume are metabolized the same way, they survive digestion the same way even pigs and rodents are the same as humans in this regard, again why would humans be any different even if they are of different races?
>they might very well react differently to it, just like react to alcohol
except we have mechanistic data that shows this, we have none that shows that any race or even another different species of mammals metabolizes mammalian hormones differently, it's dependent on total body mass and gender.
>You are blaming a product
I am not blaming a prodeuct, I am providing evidence that it isn't safe, I haven't found any actual evidence that dairy is safe for human consumption.
I am also not blaming dairy for the decline of fertility in western men, although I think it is a significant factor just like obesity and sedentary life.
>europeans have drank milk before agriculture
agriculture predates pastoralism
also it doesn't AT ALL matter for how long we have been consuming cow or goat milk, what matters is if we suffer from it in some way, dairy was a valuable source of protein and calories for us so ofc we consumed it, and ofc it was advantageous to us, but is it now? That's what I'm getting at.
That's literally after consuming a single dose of milk, so the "miniscule ammounts" aren't really that miniscule, furthermore it's not just "estrogen", but also progesterone which is an issue.
Now have that "miniscule" raise in "estrogens" every day for years straight, assuming this is not doing anything bad to us is mere assumption, and as such I can also at the same time assume the effects are far worse with chronic consumption of cow milk.
>They dont list the amount testosterone goes down. Newsflash test goes down after consuming food anyway l m a o
Yeah except they litearlly listed the ammount of testosterone before and after milk consumption
Also estrone and estradiol and progesterone do NOT go up after consuming a meal unless that meal is estrogenic.
Also, the other factor that you are ignoring is that the hormonal change in the human subjects correlates with the hormonal composition of cow milk in the first place.
You didn't debunk anything, and in fact no one has been able to debunk that study.
I have drink no less than a liter of milk a day or years. Still a stallion.
>That's literally after consuming a single dose of milk, so the "miniscule ammounts" aren't really that miniscule, furthermore it's not just "estrogen", but also progesterone which is an issue.
its 10 picograms on average in that study when they had a total of like 220, thats less than 5%
link me a study that says small doses in increase in estrogens have any effect on you
>Now have that "miniscule" raise in "estrogens" every day for years straight, assuming this is not doing anything bad to us is mere assumption, and as such I can also at the same time assume the effects are far worse with chronic consumption of cow milk.
you dont know this
>>They dont list the amount testosterone goes down. Newsflash test goes down after consuming food anyway l m a o
>Yeah except they litearlly listed the ammount of testosterone before and after milk consumption
i read the full paper its not in there
>Also estrone and estradiol and progesterone do NOT go up after consuming a meal unless that meal is estrogenic.
Source
Asians metabolize many things differently, like the example with alcohol. I don't need to make a fucking hypothesis on 4chins. Either you understand such basics or you don't.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
And the fact that most of them can't even drink milk without shitting themselves should be a warning.
>I am providing evidence that it isn't safe
>one study clearly stating that it's about the late preggo milking shows that food which has been consumed by the most intelligent and warlike race in existance is actually stealing T
Yeah, lmao, whatever dude. Drink your basedlatte.
>agriculture predates pastoralism
Wrong again, desu. Look for the studies yourself, I'm too lazy to spoonfeed yet another brainlet.
thehealthyhomeeconomist.com
user, ffs, we have so much other hormon disruptors out there that it is hard to find actual edibe food and you chimp out on of the safest historical foods we have. Get your priorities right you fucking laughable cunt.
>source
where's yours?
>link me a study that says small doses in increase in estrogens have any effect on you
I guess s o y is fine then
>you dont know this
I know that cow milk consumption raises estrone, estradiol and progesterone levels and impacts menstural cycles in adult females, and thus cow milk is indeed estrogenic.
>where's yours?
you made the initial claim, so the burden of proof is on you
>I guess s o y is fine then
It is, cannot disprove this
>I know that cow milk consumption raises estrone, estradiol and progesterone levels and impacts menstural cycles in adult females, and thus cow milk is indeed estrogenic.
Source
>Sidenote
how do you know any other foods, like meats and grains(just a rough example, since the're consumed a lot) dont increase estrogens aswell?
>I don't need to
yeah you really don't, because what you claim is makes no sense, and thus it would just be a waste of time to try and give a sensible explanation for it.
> Either you understand such basics or you don't.
Do you understand that there's 0 evidence of sign that there's a difference in steroid metabolism in all the different races and not to mention all of the different mammalian species other than bodymass and gender?
I know this might shock you, but alcohol is not a steroid that your own body secretes.
>And the fact that most of them can't even drink milk without shitting themselves should be a warning.
Of what? that asians handle lactose differently?
Ok, so what? They still metabolize steroids taken orally the same as whites.
>Yeah, lmao, whatever dude. Drink your basedlatte.
I sense a bit of aggression here, you ok dude?
Just because we did good while eating a specific food group does not make that foodgroup essential specially now.
I also clearly remember telling you why looking at concentrations ofh ormones in the milk is a waste of time unless you put milk to the test on human subjects, which we have now, there is 0 evidence that cow milk does not produce estrogenic effects in humans, but there is one study now that shows it does.
>wrong again
you mean wrong in one topic I touched on, which is irrelevant anyway considering we are not caucasus steppe niggers but europeans, unless you are one in which case I apologize for projecting.
>hormonal disruptors
Provide evidence that these are stronger than the very hormones we ingest
As of now we have data that clearly shows that africans and asians are exposed to those the most, yet show no signs of suffering infertility in epidemic proportions like westerners are.
So, what gives? Why do you defend a fucking product so much? Do you sell milk or something?
>you made the intiial claim
to which I have evidence for, you on the other hand do not, cow milk has shown to be estrogenic in human children, adult males and adult females.
You have nothing to "debunk" here, because you have no source.
>how do you know any other foods, like meats and grains(just a rough example, since the're consumed a lot) dont increase estrogens aswell?
Because theyh don't have estrogens in detectable high enough ammounts, and don't have estrogenic like compounds in detectable high enough ammounts, and because grain consumption is associated with higher fertility rates, and becausae meat consumption is not particularly associated with either infertility or vigor.
Oh and because there's research done on dietary interventions where people are given meat rich diets or plant based diets, and test levels not changing significantly, so there's that.
>evolution doesn't make sense, milk is dangerous for the european
Thank your for this public anouncment, Mr Shekelstein. BTW when are you going to publish the official NWO diet guidelines? I'm asking for my wife bull, he wants to know what to avoid.
Stay mad.
you do know men need estrogen along with test, right?
And I to associate not knowing how to write with burgers, my dear Schwager
>Discouraging discussions about diet in a fitness forum makes u fkn gay u lil cunt, I bet ur an incel manlet who recently read the sticky and think ur hot shit, well I've got news for u kid, people laugh at ur 1pl8 compound lifts and ur acne won't get better till u stop sucking dick u gayass nigger.
>to which I have evidence for, you on the other hand do not, cow milk has shown to be estrogenic in human children, adult males and adult females.
Strawman. Link me a study that says that a less than 5% increase in estrogens has any effect on you
We know that test goes down after consuming food due insulin going up, this is basic metabolism. We also know that test levels in a person can vary wildly hence why the normal test range is such a huge range (300-1000 ng/dL), so a small dip in test is irrelevant. Hence the thought behind me saying 5% increase in estrogens is probally meaningless aswell
Oh. look
Its the football cuckypasta faggot
Way to prove his point.
Evolution doesn't follow straight lines, it often contradicts itself, yes, you don't know this?
Why do you even feel like you have the right to talk about evolution then lmao?
For example rodents on their "natural" diet always die of heart attacks. Humans have an undeveloped tail and also an organ that is essentially useless.
Does this make sense? No, it's evolution, you don't just obtain an optimal effective genetic adaptation out of nothing, many adaptations are also not objectively positive, as is the predisposition of diabetes in african populations despite living in environments where food is more plentiful naturally.
The rest of your post is just you sperging out because you were called out on your bullshit "muh evolution" argument lmao.
>less than 5%
not total though, they clearly individually categorize each steroid analyzed, stop being dishonest
also don't ignore the progesterone changes.
>show me the evidence that increasing various forms of estrogenic steroids is estrogenic
lmao
imagine being this defensive over a fucking product
>We know that test goes down after consuming food due insulin going up, this is basic metabolism.
Do you know that estrone, estradiol and progesterone all go up at the same time when eating anything? Do you know that menstruation is impacted by eating anything?
You don't, lmao.
Because I have a fucking degree in fucking microbiology you fucking brainlet zyd.
You are talking about shit you don't understand and than flip out like a fucking facebook mom when you learn that there are scary bacteria everywhere, starting to go around spraying isopropanol on everything. Get a grip nobody is interacting seriously with you because your claim are either made out of ignorance (yet certainty that you have the truth on your side) or due to a subversive intention - which gets more common by the week on here.
Go stay away from milk, like the nonwhite you certainly are, and shut the fuck up.
Yet you are so fucking stupid to the point of claiming steroid metabolism is different between the races while it isn't between different mammalian species
You also have 0 evidence of differences in sex steroid metabolism between different races.
Keep coping "muh evolution" poster.
more whites on average are lactose intolerant than non whites. A lot of people don't even know they are and even more confusing is that some even have an allergy to milk. But go ahead and keep slinging the "ALL WHITE PEOPLE DRINK MILK" bullshit when pseudo philosophical bullshit with no correlation.
>Jow Forums is now defending testosterone lowering and estrogenic foods
Don't get angry, Zyd. Your next subversive meme might get better. believe in yourself.
>le ebin "pretending to just be a retarded pol poster" move
How will I ever recover after destroying your ass, mr evolution?
Also, daily reminder this is what you're defending.
>more whites on average are lactose intolerant than non whites
The brown butthurtbelt reporting in I see, now you prolly going to show me all those non-white which consume cheese, not understanding that most cheese is lactosefree, like you did a coupl weeks back.
>estrogen occurs naturally in cow's milk
Good thing Testosterone occurs naturally in weightlifting. If hormones in food are disrupting your fragile test ratio you aren't lifting enough or you are naturally low T beta and will never make it.
>pretending
Oh my sweet little chosen one, if you only knew.
not him but I think he meant in terms of total numbers not in percentage.
Man, I fucking love drinking whole milk.
based dairy defense force ITT shitting on the fucking incels who don't wanna drink estrogen juice
Well, in which case it's trying to be dishonest because he's not account for unequal representation. White are already a global minority. But than again, I didn't really expect anything else from someone getting butthurt that others can consume something more efficiently.
>If we are to avoid onions-based products because of phytoestrogens why wouldn't we also avoid cow's milk?
I drink at least 2 litres of whole milk a day. My mates drink milk out of carton when hungry. So does my dad. Everybody I know that drinks milk is masculine. The men I know that drink onions milk and have a vegan diet have the lowest amount of muscle mass ive ever seen and are very feminine and emotional.
These are just my observations.
Onion don't have estrogen.
I drank cow's milk from child and I grew up to be 6'3" 235.
Worth all the risks.
It'll make you fat and maybe give you UC and make you shit blood but just stop drinking it when you start shitting blood and you'll be fine.
>Cancer risk
Everything is a fucking cancer risk give me a break.
Literally a waste of time to turn into an edgy Pubmed fuck about it. Your time would be better spent preaching how poisonous sugar is.
The amount of estrogen in a litre of milk is less than 1/1000th of what a male body produces in a day. So yes it contains estrogen but the amount is insignificant. If your goal is to consume ZERO estrogen you can't eat any animal products whatsoever.
The estrogen in onions thing is a meme. The embarrassing part is that the vegans lashed back with their own unscientific claims about estrogen in cow's milk and you actually bought it.
>redpill me on cows milk
Depending on what you get and where from, it can vary from “oh shit nigger, what are you doing?” to “that’s good shit right there.” The worst kind of milk is gonna be that cheap shit from Walmart, stay the fuck away from that crap. If you can afford it look for grass fed raw whole milk, that shit is more or less kino. But in total, cow milk pales in comparison to horse milk.
you type like a meme oriented AI or something, it's really creepy dude
We’re on Jow Forums and your complaining about some my stupid faggot speak? That’s understandable.
no seriously, it's next level shit you're on here. you actually cannot communicate without memes.
If you say so.