Why aren't we all on vegan diets?
nutritionfacts.org
>Vegan men tended to have significantly higher testosterone levels than both vegetarians and meateaters (see graph here), which can be a risk factor for prostate cancer, the reason plant-based diets appear to reverse the progression of prostate cancer may be due to how low their IGF-1 drops (see Cancer Reversal Through Diet?).
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>nutritionfacts.org
>.org
Yeah nice try
Post actual study cause I ain’t giving that cancer more clicks.
>higher test
I have seen studies that show the direct opposite. So who fucking knows.
>how low their IGF-1 drops
user, do you know what makes your muscles grow?
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
13% higher T in vegans
I know what i'm eating today
Is this due to lower body fat, and because vegans are more health conscious with their foods?
I would think a body builder who eats high protein meats + veggies would be higher test than a vegan.
>I would think a body builder who eats high protein meats + veggies would be higher test than a vegan.
Why?
Meat is better quality protein than beans.
Also I don't see a lot of vegan power lifters/ mma fighters
>don't see a lot of vegans
FTFY
There aren't many vegans period.
That's weird, seeing as meat consumption lowers testosterone
What's the link between protein and test here?
Ok listen up faggots. Going full vegan is retarded. There are a myriad of vitamins and nutrients you won't get enough of if you are full time vegan, take vitamin B12 for example. HOWEVER, going vegan for short periods at a time can be very beneficial and reverse known negative effects that consuming meat has, like de-calcifying the blood vessels. Most people eat way too much meat at levels humans would never have had access to before modern times, it is unnatural and unhealthy
Why eat any meat at all when you can take a B12 supplement for the one vitamin you're missing and not suffer any of the ill effects of eating meat?
>vegans in this study are ten years younger, as well as 10kg lighter on average compared to their meat eaters sample
So this study so far has proved that younger and healthier men have more testosterone, who knew.
Less of some kind of cancers
More of other kinds of cancers and neuro degenerative diseases
Also, the high test comes from their bodies not being able to adequately use the testosterone.
High test that you can't use is actually just useless.
I mean...there is no DHT being produced in their bodies for the most part and they have lowered fertility and athletic performance overall.
>one vitamin
Kek
They’re healthier because of their vegan diets
>Vegan
Or maybe because they are younger and slimmer? Maybe if they'd chosen a meat eater group of similar ages and weights this study wouldn't be worthless?
richard stfu
And who cares about cancer anyway? Half of Jow Forums is on fucking steroids.
This just doesn't make any sense.
WHAT THE FUCK DO I EAT?
How do I feel satisfied, be healthy, have energy and enjoy my life??
Nutrition is such a fucking rabbit hole. Veganism is clearly the healthiest thing, but most long term vegans look like shit. Dr. Greger should look like he's 30, not 60.
I might just do keto + OMAD. This is getting ridiculous.
Eat nutrient dense foods and cut out foods that harm the body, so no bread, grains, and if you want to get intense with it, cut out most veggies. Eat more organs, fish, fish roe, raw dairy including cheese, kefir and yogurt, and plenty of fat.
There is no "we" I repudiated you and your whole faggotry species vegan starveling.
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unironically this. I lost 30 pounds by going no bread no sugar, stay away from processed carbs and eat healthy fats
But look at Neal Chadnard .
>grains
But grans have nutrients, wheat is the less nutrient of all grains, plus most of it is always refied .
>nutritionfacts
Cock?
> veganism is clearly the healthiest thing despite everyone who does it long term looking like complete shit
Sounds very healthy user tell me more
Can I live off only red meat, eggs, and broccoli
I'm almost 100% sure this is just because of dairy. Milk has tremendous amounts of actual oestrogen in it, not the phyto- or xeno- analogues. And it's not even because of synthetic growth hormones or something, it's just because of how frequently modern dairy cows are inseminated.
Are you guys in Ketosis?
I want to drink Kefir but it's high in carbs.
I mean in the context of studies.
Pretty much all research shows that veganism (or at least "plant based" is super healthy) but all the vegans I see on YouTube look really bad, and tons stop doing it after a while.
Someone like Dr. Greger, he shouldn't look so bad at 46. His antioxidant count is probably through the roof. It really makes no sense from a science standpoint.
My heart beat speeds up and chest hurts, and I've been eating more fat recently. I'm probably not in Ketosis yet. If I have a heart attack it's okay though. Having butter black Tea is more delicious and I don't have to worry about my teeth being all yellow and sensitive like many vegans.
looks like a healthy radiant guy who is loving life. How is this an argument against veganism?
it doesn't its a fucking scam from the top to make you buy their shitty plants why they eat bloody raw steaks and laugh at anyone who falls for it. yes they use studies for this
>frail as a fucking toothpick
>balding
>bad teeth
>wrinkles
this is the face of the vegan dietary movement
>Alcohol (% energy) meat eaters 5.83; vegans 3.96 (3.22–4.70)
>BMIb26.1 meat eaters; 22.7 (22.3–23.1) vegans
Holy shit, it's like being a fat drunk lowers your T levels.
The problem with these studies is that "meat eaters" means your average joe, who lives on hot dogs and fries while the vegan eats lots of veggies (surprise!)
What I'd like to see is a study, where the omnivore diet is "perfect" and the vegan diet is "perfect" as well.
I'd like to see 10 top carnies tested against 10 top vegans ( that don't use steroids )
Sv3rige, Frank, Primal Something... you know
vs
V3gan gains , etc etc
>I mean in the context of studies.
The problem with all these studies (in addition to the "meat eater" categories being filled with average joes that are living off hot dogs, french fries and beer) is that the Vegans usually have only been Vegan for a few years, so they haven't been hit hard by all the issues the diet causes. There is an initial benefit from the diet as you detox and cut out processed food. after a few years your body becomes depleted of vitamins and minerals and Vegan health starts to decline rapidly. Some can do it sustainably but it requires lots of supplements and factory made foods.
this would be unironically epic
>Gaunt hollow face
>Preaching a starvation diet
All vegans have that empty-soul look. (Long term vegans)
they didn't test meat eaters
they tested vegans against the general fucking population who eats mcdicks
Yes.
Dr Shawn Baker is living just fine on red meat alone. Other carnivore advocates recommend including milk, eggs, organ meat, even citrus, mangoes.
Follow your own path!
>Pretty much all research shows that veganism (or at least "plant based" is super healthy) but all the vegans I see on YouTube look really bad, and tons stop doing it after a while.
You have reached cognitive dissonance. Your observation, which is the same as mine. Suggests that the "studies" are all fraudulent bullshit peddled by vegan activists, pushing their agenda at the expense of truth and our health.
Do some real research into who is conducting these "studies" and you find most of them are vegans, vegetarians, 7th day Adventists, and other fraudsters literally pushing an agenda, which is their starvation diet.
>Someone like Dr. Greger, he shouldn't look so bad at 46. His antioxidant count is probably through the roof. It really makes no sense from a science standpoint.
>My heart beat speeds up and chest hurts, and I've been eating mo
See a Dr about the chest thing Bru.
> What I'd like to see is a study, where the omnivore diet is "perfect" and the vegan diet is "perfect" as well.
Here you go
nutritionfacts.org
Test for what? We already have had many of the carnies reluctantly post their blood work (reluctantly after a lot of pressure) which has come back terrible.
Then they and their cult start spinning the results, claiming high cholesterol is not a bad thing.
disgraced former doctor shawn baker is prediabetic and on track to a heart ataack
> starvation
Weight is a matter of calories in, calories out. How is it a starvation diet? Because there are some underweight vegans?
>Middle
My grand uncle lives with a 60yo woman that otherwise looks the exact same, but 20 years younger jesus
>Posts a "study" conducted by emaciated professional vegan shill Dr Michael Gregor.
>Fully paid off by Jewish big money donors
Anyone who falls for Veganism has to be retarded, and the obviously far left wing. Please note I want you to stay vegan and starve yourself into sickness while you post about how "healthy" you are, then you..... can go like Nathan Pritiken, who pretended outwardly he was healthy, promoting Veganism, right up to be suicide at 69 lol
Weasonable Wob, are you nutritionally deficient? You seem to be cognitively impaired.
Gregor didn't conduct the study in question, he discusses it in the video.
If eating meat is good for you mental health then why does sv3rige frequently end up staying in mental hospitals?
Veganism is a starvation diet for humans. Healthy for cows and sheep, who have four stomachs and are designed to live on plants like grass.
We have one stomach same as Lions and wolves, if you (cruelly) force fed a lion grass, he would sicken and die just like human vegans do
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I would literally leave my health in the hands of mental asylum patients and disbarred doctors, before I listened to a word of my enemies who want to kill me.
A mental asylum patient and a disbarred doctor is not evil and or does not automatically hate me or want to harm me.
You do, end of story. I am far safer in the hands of mental asylum patients, than around (((you)))
Honestly because the culture of it is so fucking gay.
If this had been approached entirely from a nutritional and economic standpoint from the get go we might actually all be vegetarian by now (there are no vegans in first world countries).
Unfortunately the concept is so deeply associated with outright faggotry that even if all the self-proclaimed "vegans" died tomorrow for reasons that couldn't be attributed to their lifestyle it would still take a couple hundred years for the stigma against it to fade enough to make it a socially accepted option.
Fuck hippies, fuck fags, and basically fuck the whole of the West Coast.
>(there are no vegans in first world countries
I think vegans only exist in first world countries.
If you are third world poor, it's a struggle to just have some food on the table. Veganism is basically a first world vanity.
Hungry people aren't turning down food for silly fads and political preening
Ah yes
We have one stomach like rabbits and beavers as well bro.
A diet of grains, fruits, and veg will not starve you if you consume the appropriate number of calories.
> want to kill me
Eat meat (subsidized by the government for some reason), get sick (lose independence and ability to resist), and depend upon big pharma (more money for (((them))) whoo).
Sure, the vegetarians/vegans who want to avoid this are your enemy.
They adjusted for BMI you dumb fucks.
chubby faced skinnyfat milkjar pls go
>Adjusted by BMI, which is a notoriously limited metric
>No adjustment for age
>No adjustment for appendicular lean mass
>No adjustment for activity level
Vegans proving once again that they cannot do science
This changed my life but remember that all truths are half truths.
Blood work, nutritional defiencys, allergys, GI+GL, undermethylation, pyroluria and genetics can take your nuteitional needs into gray area of whats the best.
Overall thou plant bases diet is the best on so many levels.
On purpose his purpose of helping millions of people instead of bitching about other men in internet..
Because we can't trust you
So many vegans twist the facts to try to make their diet seem better I don't trust the facts that come out of your mouths anymore.
Just fucking say it how it is and appeal to the moral or economic side of things, the moral appeal would help your case so much more than the bucket of "evidence" you bring to each of these threads.
spoonfeed me a diet template and I'll switch to veg. I need
>5000cals a day
>cheap
>easy to prep
>NO BLOATING
>complete protein/micro nutrients
The BMI adjusted values for free testosterone levels show no significance at all (0.471 p-value), and is insignificant even without the adjustment.
So the only thing this really shows is that there tends to be higher T and higher SHBG (which inhibits function of T) in vegans and that BMI really complicates things. The former point also tends to show up when comparing the Japanese to Americans.
The values are age adjusted, read under the table.
>being this fucking retarded
Just switch to pescetarian and eat meat once a week. Lots of fish and eggs with lenses, rice and pasta. Basically any mediterranean plan will do.
Dat cholesterol tho
all of your shit post is irrelevant because I replied to 2 dumb posters shitting on the paper because "UH THEY'RE NOT EVEN THE SAME BMI" when the study itself corrects for BMI.
So, why the fuck are you even replying to me you dumb mother fucker?
>We have one stomach like rabbits and beavers as well bro.
Rabbits are extremely smal, zero comparison to humans. Use sheep, wolves and mountain lions for comparison to the similar size creatures. Human stomach is near identical to wolves, we are insanely different from sheep, herbivores. Small Rabbits have to eat their own poop, to survive on plants I suggest you do the same leaf eater.
>A diet of grains, fruits, and veg will not starve you if you consume the appropriate number of calories
Just keep telling yourself that as the years go by and you waste away lol..
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why do people think it's ok to just make shit up? vitamins A and D can both be obtained from non-animal sources, A is particularly easy to get. i'm not a vegan but shit like this makes you just as bad as they are.
>Sure, the vegetarians/vegans who want to avoid this are your enemy
Vegans openly declare they want me to die, this is not even a debate this is war and I don't want to lose my life. You are my enemy by your own declarations and actions. (Note- 100% I don't care what you eat)
>use sheep, wolves and mountain lions
no need
look at other great apes
lol look at the size of those large intestines... that's where they ferment their plant matter. But then they have to eat it again after it ferments:
they're almost the same size lmao
chimps have a digestive system almost equal to our own, you can't deal with this fact so you only look at other mammals that don't even belong to the great ape family.
>gut fermentation
which is extremely weak in chimps just in human, it's the gorillas that rely on it significantly, and you posted a video of a gorilla ofc, which is the great ape that relies the most on it.
Chimps have the closest digestive system to our own, time to deal with it and stop denying your great ape heritage.
>chimps have a digestive system almost equal to our own, you can't deal with this fact so you only look at other mammals that don't even belong to the great ape family
And they also eat a lot of raw meat.
Chimpanzees eat a lot of meat, like me, NOT LIKE YOU.
100% of the time vegans deceptively use meat eaters (like me, NOT like vegans) to bolster Veganism. Why are you vegans always so dishonest????
bbc.com
>eat a lot of meat
Your own link says they mainly consume fruit.
>almost equal to our own
they eat almost no meat though, do you know how chimps are fed in zoos where their diet is very carefully tracked in order to make them healthy and last as long as possible? all the meat they're fed comes from bugs lmao, and it's a tiny portion of their overall diet.
Dietary fat is minimal..
>Chimpanzees eat a lot of meat, like me, NOT LIKE YOU.
Huh, no they don't eat "a lot of meat", at all, they're fed only insects in captivity and they outlive wild chimps.
Your own link disproves your beliefs on the diet of chimps but have you ever been at a zoo? I highly recommend it, also go ask what they feed the chimps, you will be surprised, almost all of it is plants, and the only meat they eat is from insects in tiny pellets like protein snacks.
So, you have an animal that is incredibly close to humans in absolute genetic terms, who eats mostly plants, and has almost the exact same digestive system as humans too.
Where is the confusion here?
Chimps' gut fermentation is incredibly weak, only slightly better than ours, but even humans are capable of deriving energy from short chain fatty acids produced by the gut bacteria, just in smaller ammounts than other great apes.
>percentage
now look at absolute size my dudeyeah, humans have a digestive system most similar to chimps than to any other animal, the stomach is virtually identical, the only difference is in the size of the small intestine which is bigger because we are adapted to less raw diets, that's it.
Probably sampled random low-test boomers who ate meat for their meat eaters, actual vegetarians who are low test due to their diet, and vegan bodybuilders and powerlifters who are high test *despite* their diets
Half of the population does not have a certain gene that allows them to convert beta carotene, the plant form of vitamin A, into retinal, the animal form of vitamin that we can actually utilize. The rest of the people who can I believe onlynhave a conversion rate of 10-15%. Pretty negligible amount of vitamin A, and you also need fat to metabolize it, and you don’t get fat in plants that have beta carotene. Also the American RDA’s are such low ballers, so you’d probably have to eat one or two pounds of carrots to get an optimal amount of vitamin A, IF you can even convert it at all. Or just eat 100g of raw liver
Oh, also, vitamin D is an animal hormone, you can’t find vitamin D3, that form that we use, in any plant.
You can find it in mushrooms user.
This is fucking wrong and false, idk where you get this ammount of bullshit from.
There is no "lack" of that gene, that gene is still in every single human being.
What you have though is differences in that gene, making the conversion of beta carotene to retinol less efficient, but all humans are able to conver it.
The RDA of vitamin A takes into account beta carotene intake, and it's based on human requirements.
That’s vitamin D2, still has a low conversion rate
Retarded circular logic
Lichen
even if it's true your argument is pretty poor, the maybe three essential vitamins that you claim can't be obtained from purely plant sources (they can) can be created artificially or grown with fungi and then supplemented. the idea that supplements are useless because of fat is stupid too, just eat some nuts or avocado or something.
Bullshit
>It's another 'people intentionally misinterpret statistics to support beliefs they already had while still trying to use them in an argument' episode
>It's another 'people trying to use misleading evidence to convince people to drop beliefs that are entirely emotion based and don't rely on evidence in the first place' episode
>It's another 'people smugly act like one study they didn't fully read and didn't bother to check for flaws in logic is the final nail in the coffin for people they disagree with' episode
It's like watching brick walls argue with each other.
>vegans
LCD screens have animal products in them.
Cars have animal products in them.
A fucking nintendo switch has animal products in it.
Unless you live like an ascetic monk, you are not a vegan in the first world.
Perfection is the enemy of progress user.
I'm not a perfect vegan, I have no doubt that animal products do sometimes slip through. I'm not going to give up the diet that is best for health and the planet though.