Are good looks a reflection of good genes?

Yes, but only IRL and without makeup.
Pretty much ANYONE can look good on a photo. 95% of instagram thots using smoke and mirrors

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He just looks life a sissy fag tbqh.

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>t. pic related

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Cope.

You are an idiot. Plenty of other environmental factors determine if you achieve your genetic potential or not.

nope. even if people get fat, you can tell they're facially attractive because their genes are very healthy and help them develop dense bone structure and symmetry with their features. If you're ugly, no amount of environmental factors will help you.

I didn't post that if you are ugly it would help you, but denying environment and how it plays a role in gene activation and proper development is stupid.

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so you're a mew believer? lol jesus christ, there's a reason that Mike is about to be banned from practicing and that's all I'll say

I like this.

>good genes
>good health
Attraction is directly correlated to how fit you are to survive in the last situation humans had where people would die like flies. It's been a while since we had such a situation, but the instincts don't disappear unless they are forced out.
Being attractive requires good genes, but you can fuck up good genes and become unattractive.

Whatever, keep denying evidence. That image comes from a study, not him.

>he thinks sexual selection = fitness
Imagine being this conned by half of the population

>always insecure about my chin
>never believe the lies of thots that want the D
>every woman in the world swoons over this nigga
>i have the same chin as him
Bitches weren't lying after all, I guess.

have you got the full image on that "dont like guys with a beard,muscle and tattoos" meme?

Bigger cope. That happens everywhere in the animal kingdom, faggot.

Holy kek so much cope

Whether mewing fixes the problem or not, you'll be hard pressed to find a dentist that doesn't agree that facial development gets fucked by mouth breathing. This has been the consensus for decades. Mew isn't controversial because he says that tongue posture affects your head shape, he's controversial because he's saying it's curable if you fucked it up already.

nope

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The reason why Mike is wrong isn't because of his advocacy of breathing through the nose and good tongue posture (I believe in these too), it's that he cons people (specifically younger men who are less than average in terms of their appearance) into thinking that they'll become chad by simply keeping their tongue on the roof of their mouth. You can chew tree sap and never open your mouth again, but that's not what's making you ugly. There are plenty of incels and copecels that have certain features that are deemed attractive, but they're still below average. Sorry, truth hurts. Until we make advancements in technology, the best option you have is surgery or lowering your standards on potential mates.

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The point of the other guy was that you can fuck up good genes and still end up ugly. You can.

I mean, is he really implying that and what does he gain? He just says you will achieve your genetic potential, whether that is 6/10 or 9/10.

Reminder that species have went extinct because hypergamy and sexual selection spiralled out of control in the manner of a positive feedback loop
Stay conned kid, and enjoy the ride I guess

Post proof.

Yes.
There have been a couple studies on it. Good looking people tend to be healthy, end up more successful in life on average. Ugly people have higher incidence of mental illness.

It could be self fulfilling prophecy though.

I don't follow that belief system. There's a reason why you see fat girls that have "pretty faces" and the chubby guy that girls swoon for because he has a good face with developed bone in good areas. Outside of a major medical issue or accident, these people will always be attractive and they can maximize that with a healthy lifestyle, but an ugly person that maximizes their lifestyle through mewing, buying new clothes, getting a better haircut will only look slightly better than their original self because genes are everything. If you're ugly, save and buy the surgeries you need -- bottom line.

Also, hypergamy is good. Imagine how everyone would look like if women had the same standards as men...

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Nobody's talking about maximizing your looks as an ugly person except for you. Ugly people will always be ugly. Good looking people can definitely fuck themselves up, mouth breathing being a prime example.

there are people in here saying that genes aren't everything in terms of attractiveness. Reap up.

hence why I said good genes facilitate good development

read up***

I feel he is a bit too optimistic about adultcels, sure, but I don't think you're right. Even in his latest video he claims that after 25, or 20 or so, moving the maxilla becomes a ton harder. Almost all mewers aren't going to be able to do that, and I feel even less so when they've had extractions.

Most people can be average, or beautiful, but that requires them to have good facial development.
Good genetics + good facial development = beautiful
Average genetics + good facial development = Decent looking
Bad genetics + good facial development = average looking.

But even with extractions and bad facial development, if you mew after 20, you'll still see minor cheekbone improvements, atrophy in the buccinator muscle, which creates hollow cheeks, and maybe even minor improvements to palate width and definitely improvements to airways, aka easier breathing, better sleep, etc.

If orthos already know these things, why on earth don't they inform the patients immediately when they see signs of malocclusion at age 8 or so? And why aren't this posture and these exercises told to anyone getting braces so they are given a chance to improve their face when they are in the most malleable age, like 10-13 years old?

It could save so many teeth from being extracted.

>I agree, but I don't agree.
You are a special kind of retard.

He's either trolling or very stupid.

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Having good genes and still ending up ugly means that genes aren't everything. They're a prerequisite, and you'd have to be an idiot to disagree, but they still aren't everything.

A couple weeks ago there was a thread about Mewing, and I had never really looked into, so I searched through Mike's youtube channel to try and figure out exactly what it was. Like the exact tongue position.
None of the anons in the thread could even describe what it was. Mike Mew himself, and I guess his dad who originally created it, talk about activating the back of the tongue. Like they're saying the rear of your tongue should come up and contact your soft palate constantly. Its fucking weird.
Anyway, I ended up watching a bunch of his content. Mike Mew himself does not make any of the claims that these redditor faggots claim. Mike isn't out there saying changing your tongue position can change your face radically as an adult.
He and his Prof father promote this stuff to eliminate crowding of the teeth in children, which will help them develop healthy normal jaws as they grow into adulthood. Along with tongue position they also focus heavily on repetitious chewing to build jaw muscle, something the retards here and on reddit constantly ignore.

If your front and lower rows of teeth line up as an adult, you cannot force your jaw to come forward without causing enormous dental issues. All these ugly retards who think they're going to fix a weak jaw by pushing their tongue to the roof of their mouth are hopeless. These claims of progress are entirely fake and wishful thinking. The only people this could possibly help would be those who have a retraced jaw, massive overbite, severely underdeveloped facial muscles, and even by Mike Mew's own words this can take a decade.
Mike Mew himself said he only started to notice a difference after 10 years, and in his case it was basically just building jaw muscle which gave him a more square jaw profile. He also admits a lot of his beliefs are guesswork.

>Even in his latest video he claims that after 25, or 20 or so
Interesting. Name of that video?

I don't agree with Mike in the sense that having good tongue posture causes your bone to structure itself differently over time. I think good tongue posture is just better for breathing in general, nothing more. It has no influence on your "beauty", as Mike puts it.

>Having good genes and still ending up ugly means that genes aren't everything.
People who truly have good genes for being good looking will always be good looking unless there's sudden trauma to the face or a disease. Again, that's why I said you still notice people who have disgusting bodies that do well in terms of the sexual activity and ability to get a partner. If a person who is genetically gifted and extremely good looking, environmental factors and an unhealthy lifestyle won't change that, sorry. Only attractive people can dramatically improve their beauty through certain tasks like dressing better and having better hairstyles, ugly people MAYBE bump themselves from a 3.5/10 to a 3.6 or 3.7. That's just how life works. Genes are everything.

Muscle development 100% influences bone development, in people who are still growing. This isn't up for dispute. It can have such a pronounced effect that you can tell if someone squinted a lot and furrowed their brow in life because the muscle will leave indents on the skull from it.
The caveat is that the overwhelming majority of this is adolescence and early adulthood. Beyond that it takes decades to have the same influence on bone structure.

>it could save so many teeth from being extracted
I'd guess 90% of the money I've spent at the dentist was to remove my wisdom teeth. I'm not saying they're explicitly in on a scam, but if the norm is already to extract wisdom teeth, they're not worried about minor signs. They do let you know early when it's getting severe, though.
I'm guessing it's some kind of collective bad habit that probably developed as a combination of early cities being full of mouth breathers due to terrible conditions and money.

youtube.com/watch?v=uwnYPeC7nK4#t=11m40s
11:40 in the video

Mew simply claims "You just need to work harder for longer senpai". While he's not wrong, I think a logical consensus is basically that while the bones are still technically malleable as an adult, as they do regenerate and can change shape over a long time, it would simply take too much force to really make any real change with your tongue, plus a few bones are almost entirely fused.

Those monkeys dropped their tongue from the roof of their moth. Dentists and researchers agree that oral posture is key to proper development.

>The caveat is that the overwhelming majority of this is adolescence and early adulthood. Beyond that it takes decades to have the same influence on bone structure.
This.

the influence that muscularity has on bone development is so small that it's not noticeable. The problem with copecels is that they confuse causation and correlation in the sense that just because squinting (in your example) has an effect on brow ridge doesn't imply that it has enough of an effect to improve aesthetics by any significant margin. The same can be said with trying to build the musculature of the masseter muscle in the jaw. Just because certain activities like chewing sap and jaw movements can develop this area doesn't indicate that the amount of gained muscle will even reflect a noticeable change in the visual appearance of the face, only at a look beneath the skin can we notice a minimal amount of development in the area. Again, genetics are everything and the amount of improvement we can make from outside practices is so small that it's not visually noticeable to have an influence over someone's beauty. Genes are everything.

the same dudes that buy into chewing coarse gum and mewing are the same girls that buy Kylie Jenner's products so they can have lips like kylie not realizing that the only way to heave beautiful lips is primarily through good genetics or very expensive surgeons lol

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So yeah. He's right.

1.You can't look at the falsehoods in that photo and not wonder what she really looks like. You just can't.
2.Epigenetics are far more important. Forever unchanging genes is a lie pushed by people who don't want us to live well and maximize our potential and grow as human beings. Alternately, those same people will beat the drum of genetic engineering and eugenics. Which outright states that they think they are physically inferior and lack what those who made themselves better through life living diet and correct thinking have.

Who knows. In some people cranial bones never fuse.

Mewing is legit but it won't make you have a model tier jawline even if you mewed since birth. You will have a developed jaw but whether you'll look like Brad Pitt will be determined by your genes.

As someone who keeps a beard this is still just cringy. Hehe her boyfriend shaved his beard so hes her gf now hehe. Imagine not advancing your career or taking a better job because muh beard is so entwined into your personality.

Yeah, whether it works or not, I agreed with you in this post .

>Mew simply claims "You just need to work harder for longer senpai"
So I wasn't following your conversation and I definitely didn't watch enough Mew videos, only a couple. However, I started to follow his basic advice regarding the jaw and tongue position, chewing when I was 27. I'm turning 30 now and the biggest benefit of those actions is that despite this new position not being natural, I've got so used to force myself holding it, it became automatic.
So yeah, the exercises won't change your bone structure when you're adult, but when a habit becomes an instinct, it's almost natural for me too look better now.

the problem comes with ugly dudes conflating the message that mike and his father with male models that have A+ genetics so it's hard to extract what mike actually said vs what is being regurgitated online. To this day I still don't know the correct tongue posture or the real effects of the practice because the information is a clusterfuck of scientific data mixed with reddit-tier anecdotal information.

I'm starting to think you legitimately don't understand the words you're using now.

You're throwing insults while I'm trying to make copecels realize that they're better off saving finances to purchase a surgery. Are you getting paid to shill for Mike?

>To this day I still don't know the correct tongue posture or the real effects of the practice because the information is a clusterfuck of scientific data mixed with reddit-tier anecdotal information.
Don't they teach how to do it on their youtube channel? There's also a pretty good guide on the great work website.

He's a schizo.

Also, please state your argument in plain English because every time I respond to you, all you can do is attack me with insults. This isn't conducive to a productive debate.

Mike Mew's channel has all the info, but he does tend to ramble and hold long pauses to swallow spit, so it's a hassle to get it from there.
I think lookism.net has a big and comprehensive guide about it.

my grandpa married a blonde goddess but turns out she's a schizo so now it runs in the family

why do women have a nazi-tier ideology when it's about beauty. what does even "good genes" mean? high intelligence? good health? at least source/prove the correlation between good looks and good genes.

Cope.

What's wrong with having a "nazi" ideology?

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Because they can all get pregnant by the same man, but they can only be pregnant by one man. Sharing doesn't hurt them, but lowering standards is devastating.
Men have it the other way around and don't lose anything from knocking up a gutter whore if he can come home to his 10/10 qt 3.14 waifu.
In reality it isn't as simple, but we haven't been selected for modern urban living, and we're still running exclusively on instinct when it comes to attraction.

march of the titans

Most research shows diminishing correlation between attractiveness (symmetrical faces with well defined features in this case) and good health. There's only a strong correlation between VERY unattractive (essentially deformed) and poor health. Past that there isn't much of a correlation. For example attractiveness doesn't correlate to your immune response as far as I know

>Most research shows diminishing correlation between attractiveness (symmetrical faces with well defined features in this case) and good health.
Proof?

>For example attractiveness doesn't correlate to your immune response as far as I know
Testosterone, which is attractive, does.

The real redpill is that looks=genes=intelligence
contrary to nerd cope, good looking people have higher IQ

Ok, since the other guy in this thread that keeps calling me schizo disappears whenever I tell him to make his argument, I will state mine and call it a day.

>mewing to become more attractive
in short: mewing does NOT influence the skeletal shape or structure to a degree in which it has a visual (or noticeable) effect on the beauty/aesthetics of a persons face. Am I saying that it doesn't have microscopic improvements? No, absolutely not. Also, keeping the tongue on the roof of the mouth and advocating for breathing through the nose has beneficial impacts on health like filtration of foreign substances and materials from the outside.

>genes are everything
People who are genetically gifted in terms of their beauty will always remain attractive even if they're fat or unkempt. The only way for someone with elite-genetics for beauty to become grotesque is through trauma or a disease. Environmental influences (this person didn't define these) do no dictate the beauty of a person. If that were the case, every thug nigger from the projects would be absolutely disgusting but there are (Jeremy Meeks, for example) people that thrive in these areas because their genes are dictated for attractiveness. Again, genes are everything.

>you can become significantly more attractive through mewing
the answer is NO. There are a multitude of factors that play into beauty that aren't related to jaw shape or cheek hollowness. If you have bad genes, no amount of mewing will fix that -- sorry!

All in all, if you're ugly and you want to become more attractive, looksmaxing will only bump you 1 point of the attractiveness scale AT MOST. Instead, save up and find a reputable surgeon to fix your shit and give up these homemade remedies that pray on weak-minded men.

Later dudes.

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based and Nietzschepilled

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_elk#Extinction
The Irish elk is a great example of what Fisherian runaway does to the animal kingdom

Everyone is calling you a schizo or at least me and that guy.

You also, very conveniently, ignored some posts I made.

nigga I'm blackpilled myself. I'm aware that looks matter, but saying that good looks correlates with "good genes" is just an excuse made by women to not date ugly men. even if it correlates, how does it even matter in modern society? when do you have to go and fight a bear with your "good genes" or survive the flu? your good genes won't stop the real health issues we have, like cancer and so on

I was just saying that selective breading is a kind of nazi method. Nazis at least fit their own Herrenmenschen theory into a whole principle and weren't wishy washy virtue signaling fucks

Just let it go, dude has been ignoring or misrepresenting every post that doesn't agree with his own. Whether it's delusion or stupidity, it's useless.

I literally searched attractiveness and health and the first paper that came up says there's a weak correlation.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5290736/

Also considering just testosterone in the scope of your immune system doesn't really work. There's tons of other factors that are much more important

People who say genes don't dictate your attractiveness are, unironically, the ugly ones that spend hours in the gym and clench their jaws 24/7 in the HOPE that someday someone will give them a tinder match.

This guy unironically gets it.

this, the other guy is just stringing along a series of cope posts and excuses with his nigger IQ. these same people will say that in almost any other case that you're ruled by your genes but attractiveness can be influenced by outside sources. I know plenty of ugly dudes that got new clothes and worked out and still remained incel lmao

>They grow those things physically, just like you grow mentally. Your environment and your own actions are what mold you
nigger did you just say that you can become more attractive just by being positive? Are you that "grow, grow, grow" manlet? hahahahahahahahaha

>he doesn't know
You know what, I will make so much money from ungrateful faggots like you in a few years that its not even funny. AHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA. You will eat that shit up so hard and you could've just gotten it for free if you wasn't such a bitch. No only that but there are free open forums on discussion on that(no not these "maxxing") but I will never tell you about it. Stay low, fag.

Hot as guck but damn that's a chin that would sharpen steel

ohhh look we have another /COCOON/ poster! let me guess, you're gonna sit in your room, watch Jocko podcasts, chew tree sap, mew and lift weights and THEN you're gonna CHAD all over us. Wew lad.

Like I said, it has nothing to do with that. Its all in front of your eyes yet you can't see it. AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

>"good genes" is just an excuse made by women to not date ugly men.
Lel, think about why would that be the case?

>even if it correlates, how does it even
matter in modern society?
Attractive people are treated better.

>when do you have to go and fight a bear with your "good genes"
When you fight other man, thick bone structure and height are important.

>or survive the flu?
Testosterone correlates with immune response.

>your good genes won't stop the real health issues we have, like cancer and so on
Yes? Some cancer is genetic.

>Also considering just testosterone in the scope of your immune system doesn't really work. There's tons of other factors that are much more important
It is very important. I will post proof, but give me a second.

There's a paper, which I actually read, that gives evidence. Do you want the link?

I know. That is my final post and I only read the first paragraph.

He didn't, double nigger.

Being alive is an indicator of good genes. Think of how many freaks and abominations existed before you.This user is right, looks are 99% environment

>looks are environment

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50%.

"you can grow your attractiveness just like you grow your mind!"

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Ear surgery, nose surgery, new haircut and he can be a good looking man. His shoulders probably not that bad if he will stand without a bb in his hands and spread the shoulders properly

"once I get shredded and muscular, I'm gonna get so much pussy!"

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imagine thinking environmental factors make someone look like pic and vid related lol

youtube.com/watch?v=aHFzMv6VgYk

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That is cheating and not environment.

sure, but at least you admit that his genes aren't geared towards beauty and the only way to make him attractive is through surgery.

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Then why do all 3rd world shitholers look masculine while eating meat meanwhile india is full vegan(vegene) mode and looks so gay.