PPL BTFO
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Rippetoe is profoundly retarded. Push/pull is just an arbitrary distinction to help make sure you get all your muscles worked, and it works for that. If he is too stupid to understand that then he should honestly just shut up and go back to telling high schoolers to eat more hotpockets so they can get bigger ass muscles for their squatmornings
>durr rip's an old fat guy what does he know
what he said in that article was abjectly retarded.
>"Guys pushing and pulling are LITERALLY not objective!!!"
yeah that's not the point of organizing your workouts that way, it's not a hard concept, if he can't figure it out he is retarded, and if you can't figure it out you are retarded too
exactly
Yeah but he's saying that all muscles pull
No shit, and in the small scale he's right. He has fucking autism if he can't distinguish between that and benching being a "push" type movement. If you can't distinguish it, you too have terminal autism and should consider suicide
fat boomer cope
this but unironically
>buy my bench guise!
That bench is nice. The bar is legit too. Unironically the best for the price
fuck off mark
>rip trains for strength
>rip looks like shit but is strong
>user trains for looks and doesn’t care about strength
>user looks better than rip but is weaker
Remind me why the fuck would I listen to Rip? He’s a powahliftah, I am not
Rippletits plz go
I'm not a powerlifter. I teach the general population the basic barbel lifts and get them strong.
Meant *he's* not a powerlifter
do you know what you are?
you are retarded beyond measure.
that is what you are.
If you can deadlift 250 kg you will have muscles that can deadlift 250 kg.
>training for look
what the fuck does that mean?
you mean those faggots that spend more time with their phone in front of the mirrors than they actually move objects from A to B?
pic is me at 6'4'' started 8 months ago with 176 lbs / 80 kg, and more fat than now, also no shoulders and back whats so ever. Now I am healthy 230 lbs / 105 kg. And all of that thanks to guys recommending training for strength.
I also on my own whim incorporated snatch and accessory work
Forgot to mention my lifts after 8 months of training.
440 lbs deadlift
190 lbs strict OHP
Beautiful. I honestly cringe at people in CBT threads that are like 160 lbs and shredded but are tiny AF and will look DYEL in clothes. I'm like you and just focus on my lifts
You have love handles spilling over your jeans like a reverse muffin top and hips as wide as your fucking shoulders retard
No one cares about muh deadlift, it’s just cope
o no no no
>this is your body on strength training
You’re trolling, r-right? Am I being rused again?
Thank you. and I genuinely enjoy lifting. Good thing is that my body is reacting good to training (to my surprise). I am slowly losing body fat, so i dont care to cut.
you would if you were to stand in front of me. you would care in your pants.
fuck love handles, remnants of past times, they will go in times, I am objectively at 15% percent body fat. I have just started working out.
and you are probably those "shreded" twink faggots.
>you would if you were to stand in front of me. you would care in your pants.
>fuck love handles, remnants of past times
>I am objectively at 15% percent body fat. I have just started working out.
This is some Bloho tier delusion, did you drop a barbell on your head in an OHP 1RM?
>15%
try 25%
Why does SS have the reputation for making people fat when Rip explicitly says to go to 20% BF maximum, and to try and maintain 15-17%? Sure, that's far from slim, but most of the fatasses you see on SS are, in Rips own words, "not doing the program"
Is he retarded? The push/pull grouping isn't fucking arbitrary. A lot of pec exercises also work triceps, so you do pecs and triceps on the same day. The same goes for lats and biceps. That's the distinction. Why the fuck does he seem to think that people do PPL splits because there's some magic distinction between pushing and pulling? Why the fuck does he treat rows as a tricep exercise? Why the fuck does he think deadlifts and cleans work for lats better than rows do?
>And it doesn't make any difference at all whether we are pushing or pulling while we are doing them.
YEAH FUCKING OBVIOUSLY MARK, WE'RE CALLING THEM "PUSH" OR "PULL" DAYS BECAUSE THE LIFTS WE'RE DOING HAPPEN TO LARGELY FALL INTO THOSE CATEGORIES.
WE'RE NOT DECIDING WHAT LIFTS TO DO BASED ON WHETHER WE'RE LITERALLY PULLING OR PUSHING SOMETHING.
A PULLING EXERCISE THAT WORKS CHEST WOULD STILL GO ON PUSH DAY.
kek
>t. Small guys
>Is he retarded?
Are you still asking? He's completely autistic and locked into his little universe of obese powerlifters.
it's a novice program designed for BEGINNERS that will use it for 3-6 months. people judge it like it's trying to be sold as the only program you'll ever need. then there are the retards that try to run it for a year and wonder why they're stalling.
why is it hard to understand that fat can concentrate on some parts
I literally have visible abs in my upper abdomen, and you could see individual threads of muscle when im pumped.
so yea, i would fucking say I am at about 15%.
but I dont even care.
I can do perfect snatch, and mobility to accompany it. So what is the exact point of your (you) ?
to belittle me and my hard work?
Or you skipped part in whom i describe how I work out for just 8 fucking months
>They generate force by getting shorter while anchored at each end to two bones separated by a joint, this creating leveraged movement of the skeleton
>this creating leveraged movement of the skeleton
>Large combinations of these leverage units coordinate to producing force against the physical elements of the environment, thus facilitating human movement.
>coordinate to producing
Jesus Christ. Is all of SS written like this? It's the first fucking paragraph and it's like it wasn't proofread at all. What a brainlet.
First example there is perfectly fine.
I came here to post this exact argument, although it should be obvious to anyone who isn't a complete DYEL.
Mark is mega-coping with the fact that SS has become a massive meme in the fitness industry and that anybody who does a brosplit or PPL or whatever you want to call it will get better results in both strength and aesthetics.
SS is for DYEL fags who want to lift less often and with less volume and ignorantly justify their laziness with phrases like "I lift for strength, not aesthetics!" without knowing that the two go hand in hand and are maximized with higher rep ranges and isolation work.
And no, Mark, barbell rows do not "massacre your triceps". Learn to do the exercise properly and stop shilling your shitty program.
Mark literally recommends a bro split/PPL in practical programming. You guys are just sperging out over terminology. retards
>a barbell row massacres your triceps
>startingstrength.com
>"There's no functional difference between push/pull muscles"
>Nobody says there is
It's a convenient way of categorizing workouts so you don't overtrain. It's arbitrary. Did anyone ever say otherwise?
>strength is maximized when you lean on cushion seat and flap your legs up and down, while typing on your phone.
No faggot, strength is maximized with progressive overload on athletic (standing up) lifts, be it dumbbell or barbell.
And you going around calling other DYELs is a slap to the face of reason and practice.
Focusing on individual muscle or group of muscles, has its place, and its place is to engage the muscles in question in such way that you clearly feel them and by it developing mind muscle connection.
And should always be done as accessory work.
People that just do deadlift will look exactly as retarded as those that just do million repetitions with no weight. At least those that deadlift will have functional body and half decent form.
And why is it that faggots such as your self, always assume people that train for strength, ignore aesthetics, and cant and dont do focus work.
>functional
dropped.
Functional aka useful. It's not like when crossfitters talk about "functional" strength. By functional he means that if you need to move a couch you can easily do it.
>what the fuck does that mean?
>you mean those faggots that spend more time with their phone in front of the mirrors than they actually move objects from A to B?
Are you retarded? Rip's strength training has you spending most of the time resting between sets.
I have this guy in gym that trains Snatch with me. and he literally has massive problems with his shoulders and back, having muscles that hinder the movement of his joints
Do you know what he did?
He literally did bodybuilder style training, got big aesthetic and fucking nonfunctional. Then regretted it.
So by functional I just mean you can move with decent flexibility and explosivity.
Also what
wrote
Is bodyweight routine good for starting out?
I swear he just heard about it yesterday because that's a mistake I made when a complete noob when someone said something about balancing your push and pulls.
First of all I am not talking about Rips program specifically.
But the fact is when you move heavier weights your heart pumps faster for longer periods of time (which you would know if you worked out), even when you are siting down (which I dont recommend)
Also; people resting in between sets in elevated cardio activity =/ people not sweating doing million repetition looking god in tha gym
If he thinks girls don't like abs then he's a retard and nothing else has any credibility.
What the fuck does any of this have to do with your original claim?
Every strength focused program has you resting for long periods of time, not just Rip's. So what if your heart is pumping, you're not "moving objects from A to B" as you claim. But nice attempt to hide your ignorance faggot.
Holy shit nobody cares about powerlifting unless it's the top of the top like Thor lifting a 1000lbs. Nobody but your buddies and the gym "talker" care about your noncompetitive lifts.
My fucking point was you fucking subhuman idiot.
That resting in strength training is part of the training. Olympic weightlifters do it, fucking power lifters do it. Your body does not stop being in state of elevated heart beat rate if you rest for 2-6 min.
Which is pointless to compare to those bitches that come to gym and dont even push them self. But hey; they did 10 super sets of 12^689 repetitions. And did like 40 kinds of isolation of which 15 are all the different angles one can take photo of ones self in the fucking mirror.
If you are so much of a turbo brainlet that you need a completely useless distinction like "push/pull" to "make sure all your muscles get worked," you're too stupid to be allowed in a gym without direct adult supervision.
>That resting in strength training is part of the training
Then why are you complaining about people spending more time resting than moving weight you drooling tard?
>training for strength and athleticism = powerlifting
Why is it with such amassing resources here on /fit, and everywhere on the Internet, you fucking Idiots can not gather two fucking brain cells to make at least sub optimal amount of sense.
everything on this board is disinfo, it's probably why everyone here is a lanklet or a fat fuck.
Underrated post.
Then again it's Rip's fault for mentioning a split between pressing and pulling and then getting angry at people for doing the exact same distinction with "push" and "pull"
I don't think he still has his whole head
they dont move any weights at all. are you that fucking retarded ?
my problem was not that they rest but that they dont actually work out at all.
and even if they are dedicated bodybuilders, of which I know couple. they are constantly moving the same weight.
>Maybe if I call him a faggot enough I'll sound like I know what I'm talking about.
Yikes
Anyways, on to the asinine content of your post.
>Strength is maximized through standing up lifts
I have never heard anyone say this. Explain? Bench press, seated OHP do nothing for strength? Both powerlifters and bodybuilders will disagree with you on this one. And I never said progressive overload wouldn't increase strength. My point is that hypertrophy increases strength and vice versa. Look up myofibrilar hypertrophy; increasing the size of contractile muscle tissue (which is aided primarily through higher rep ranges (8-12) and accessory work) will allow you to move more weight.
>accessory work
We're talking about Starting Strength which includes very minimal to no accessory work at all. This is why "faggots such as my self" assume people train only for strength. Because they buy into meme programs like SS, ignore focus work for the most part, don't spend enough time in the gym, don't hit each muscle group as often as they should, and don't train progressively for both strength and hypertrophy.
Bodybuilders typically have lower resting times.
Jesus you're a mess
So he’s mad about the semantics of the naming of the push/pull split, and then says that it’s dumb, because...?
It’s like he doesn’t grasp the concept of splitting workouts of certain muscle groups over multiple days, to give them enough volume, and enough time to recover between workouts.
Lol that was what I started with.. you only got that after that long ?
>The push/pull grouping isn't fucking arbitrary.
But it is though.
>A lot of pec exercises also work triceps, so you do pecs and triceps on the same day. The same goes for lats and biceps.
Why don't you group them by "Chest and triceps" and "Back and Biceps," or better yet, "Bench press" and "Deadlifs" and their related accessories? Instead of being an unlifting, herd following jackass basing your program off arbitrary and irrelevant distinctions like Push/Pull.
>Why the fuck does he seem to think that people do PPL splits because there's some magic distinction between pushing and pulling?
While you're bringing it up, what's the magic distinction between "pushing" and "legs." Why are you stupid faggots bothering to order things by "push" and "pull" when you just end up doing it by muscle groups anyway?
>Why the fuck does he treat rows as a tricep exercise?
The long head of the triceps traverses the shoulder joint. If you do rows how he now suggests them (underhand with elbows in and shit [note that his own fucking book calls this a great way to cause elbow problems and recommends against them]) the long head of the triceps is going to be fully involved in the lift. Now, the triceps has three (3) heads, hence "tri." The other two aren't going to be doing shit during a row, they only extend the elbow. So saying barbell rows "massacre" your triceps is stupid. At best, they work a third of your triceps if you do them in a manner I don't recommend you actually do them.
>It's a convenient way of categorizing workouts
It's not even that, because "push" and "pull" are vague, A R B I T R A R Y distinctions. If you want a convenient way to categorize workouts, categorize them by which core barbell lift they make stronger. But you're clearly far, far too much of a brainlet to manage that.
everything is bodybuilding....
and my thesis was that 99.9% of high rep isolation bodybuilders / lmao broSpliters dont actually work out that hard, they are just using high rep excuse to not push them self, this is in practice. And was my original point.
to which some faggot replied
>but those that work with heavy weights also have long resting periods.
Which was not even remotely close to my point
And they have lower resting times, because lower rep ranges dont sustain heart activity as long as high weights. which is main factor in determining for how long should you rest in between sets.
Your fucking brain is asinine
Athleticism is practicing your movements with large group of muscles. Using momentum of your limbs to move weight. Which is most effectively done in stand up position where your core is engaged. Where there are main muscle groups that are engaged in movement, while you have rest of your body in stabilization role
And as such has most benefit for general strength and functionality of your body. Period.
If you can work out standing up. Do it.
Seated OHP will always, and in every circumstance be inferior to strict standing OHP. Unless you have your legs broken or some shit. So your point is invalid.
And stop being fucking retarded, I ask of you once again. We were not talking Starting Strength, but I addressed your point that strength is maximized solely trough high rep wanking and isolation working.
To which every single Olympic weightlifter and Olympic trainers would have a good and merry laugh.
also;
from where did you gather that I reject higher rep work ?
You really don't have any reading comprehension ability at all, do you?
Take a good 60 seconds and read the OP, carefully. It should be clear now that we are talking about Starting Strength. I might have misunderstood your original post though, are you not defending SS? And please, direct me to where I said strength is "maximized solely through high rep and isolation training"? I clearly said hypertrophy and strength are mutually beneficial.
And why are you implying you can only activate your core on standing lifts? Not true at all. If you are doing practically any movement properly, including BP, you should be tightening your core.
Work your damn rear delts my dude
thanks boss. glad to see at least one other person here isn't pants on head retarded
rippletits is an over the hill boomer that is salty that people dont want to do SS because it's shit
this whole article makes him sound like a pedantic idiot lol
>are maximized with higher rep ranges and isolation work
And I was fucking addressing this point. Not the OP. I did not even do SS, i did PL with accessory work (worked out 5 days a week)
But I do defend, in general programs that prioritize strength.
>And why are you implying you can only activate your core on standing lifts
strawman. I am implying that you have maximum engagement of your muscles and nerve systems while standing. Yes bench press is good. But bench press hardly can be considered isolation.
>If you are doing practically any movement properly, including BP, you should be tightening your core.
And you are once again giving false ideas I have to address
Point of isolation exercises is literally that, to exclude core workout and to focus more on individual muscles. That is why you have seated position, to lean against something so that it gives you leverage.
Similar story is with the belt and elastic bandages.
It is not to say that your core gets shut down, but its role is sidelined.
I agre with this. And I am doing something about it.
Problem I have is that my traps and the rest of my back, including front delts is just exploding like crazy, so rear delts even if not undertrained, just look like weak point
You have my gratitude for actually constructive criticism.
do you think snatch will help with rear delts? Because I started doing lots of those as well. as warm up routine I also do back OHP
You are nowhere near 15%, definitely closer to 25%.
>Why don't you group them by "Chest and triceps" and "Back and Biceps," or better yet, "Bench press" and "Deadlifs" and their related accessories?
Who gives a fuck what I label my days? I could call it "chest and triceps", I could call it "fuck my ass with a cactus" day too, but I call it "push" day because non-retarded people immediately understand what I'm talking about, rather than intentionally being obtuse like you and Rippletits.
>While you're bringing it up, what's the magic distinction between "pushing" and "legs."
What the fuck are you talking about? I don't bench press with my legs and I don't squat with my arms.
>Why are you stupid faggots bothering to order things by "push" and "pull" when you just end up doing it by muscle groups anyway?
Because we're not fucking nerds like you that feel the need to but in with some "uuuhhhmmm ackthually" bullshit. God damn why can't there be one tripfag that isn't a complete and utter fucking moron.
>be on 3-4 days a week full body program
>3min rests between sets
>5-8 rep range
>5 sets squats, 5 sets ohp, 5 sets pullups, 3 sets bench, 3 sets curls, replace pullups with deadlifting on Fridays
>tfw objectively on the best program and the rest of you ppl kids are scrubs
Feels good
>No faggot, strength is maximized with progressive overload on athletic (standing up) lifts, be it dumbbell or barbell.
Is this your retarded way of saying "you need to train your CNS"? Because everyone already knows.
That bitch looks aesthetically pleasant. Wish to have one like that at home
you can see my ribs in between pecs and abs. fuck off with your one photo estimates.
why is it so hard to have coherent discussion here? I was addressing point that claimed that high hypertrophy and isolation maximize strength gains.
If that's the main point you are addressing then you just need to read it differently. "maximized with higher rep ranges and isolation work" is meant to imply that your strength is going to maximized when you utilize accessory work and compound movements at higher rep ranges (e.g. 8-12 as opposed to exclusively training at 3-5 reps as is advocated in SS) IN ADDITION to strength training with compound movements.
Seems we are saying the same thing and debating semantics at this point.
But to address your other points, no I don't think bench press is isolation. I agree that standing movements like squat and DL are important as opposed to seated or laying alternatives because you are activating muscle stabilizers.
then you are literally saying the same fucking thing as I do..... fuck me
And I call it accessory work for a reason.
>that muffin top
has to be bait
Also I do following these days; I use low rep progressively heavier for warm up, will do sets of 3 for heavy. then remove the weights to about 60% of my max and do 8-12 reps till i fucking die.
why am I taking these baits so easily when I dont even care that much.
Here have older pic, I know it is not relevant, but I have even less fat than in this photo, but even here its mostly love handles
No I do not have full set of abs. but I do not fucking care, and I can bet my left nut that I mog the fuck out of you skinny fucking dyels, even after just 8 months working out
You're mentally ill, but you already knew that.
apparently I just have to much time tonight to waste on idiots like your self.
Yes. Load your body weight on the bar for any lift and get grinding!
yea no still not 15%
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He's right about PPL but his programs still lack volume which the vast majority of lifters will want for building muscle.
Mark. Literally any training method other than SS gets you way more shredded. That's the only way to look good enough to earn "The Prize," a full feeling in the belly that can only be produced by a sufficient quantity of cum.
>pic related
>m-muh PPL!!!
>trashes Ripp cuz he has the tism
bitch do yu know where you are???
>Mark. Literally any training method other than SS gets you way more shredded. That's the only way to look good enough to earn "The Prize," a full feeling in the belly that can only be produced by a sufficient quantity of cum.
how many dicks did you have to suck to get that full belly feeling you are talking about?
>ITT: Buttblasted PPL twinks
You don't understand training volume, adaptation, recovery or how much volume is needed to make muscle and strength gains as you progress if you think his beginner program is lacking in volume.