For the past 3 years I have watched their health slowly deteriorate. They have all lost significant weight, but they were a healthy weight before, and most of the weight they have lost is muscle. My brothers went from being strong to being emaciated weaklings. My mother complains her migraines are worse recently. My father's liver cirrhosis is apparently worse than ever.
Despite all this, I continue to fail at convincing them to give up this crazy diet. They constantly send me Dr. Gregor videos and other ridiculous unscientific blog posts about how healthy plant based diets are. They're often telling me that I am the one who is unhealthy (despite the fact i've never been this healthy in my whole life!)
How do I get them to stop this vegan bullshit before they really hurt themselves? Anyone got any recent 2017+ studies that I could at least try to share with them? Or any advice in general on getting them to give this shit up?
Go keto and MOG them as hard as you can. Lots of vegans go keto after a while. It's easier to convince people to eat meat again when they have the safety net of becoming fat adapted. Oh and fuck niggers.
>In conclusion, 6 wk on a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet caused a minor decrease in total testosterone and no significant changes in physical performance in male endurance athletes compared with 6 wk on a mixed, meatrich diet.
It's fucking nothing
Grayson Richardson
Check your links again, some of them don't link to any study directly and the last one expired
Leo Kelly
Literally none of these studies is about veganism
Luis Butler
hehehere lies user's senpai could've lived, but went vegan
Thomas Diaz
Name a single study that shows that vegan die earlier than omnivores.
Jordan Rogers
unironically doing this, well not the keto part, thats retarded. Still got like 1 year to go before I make it though.
Jackson Foster
Your mom is going to lose her marbles due to lack of dha and epa. Vegan fags will try to 'gotcha' you with Muh dha from algae why don't you just get it direct from the source.
Epa is super duper important for mental health and can only be sourced from animal products (absent some insignificant conversion our bodies can do). Furthermore, the dha dose is miniscule in algae suppliments and it is very poorly converted to epa to boot.
Recently saved my girlfriend from this cult and supplimenting with high quality fish oil EPA/DHA is THE WAY to save their fucking minds from themselves.
Also check out dessicated grass fed beef liver supplements from Amazon.
Stooping to vegans' level of self delusion and attacking their moral / ethical arguments is a ploy because you will never ever convince them that way.
Instead you must make them realize the lack of animal products is causing them personal significant harm to their health. Only then can you make the bridge that it is more moral for ones self to be healthy than to give credence to spurious claims about the ethics of eating animals (which has occurred for millions of years by humans ancestors, conveniently dismissed by vegans).
It also helps to appeal to their livelihood or interests. Are they athletes, or working in intellectually challenging fields? Veganism harms their ability to perform mentally and physically, use this against them.
If you need to attack their bogus nutrition epidemiology studies they cite, look up the connections of their beloved American Dietetics Association to the Seventh Day Adventist sect, and also John Ioannidis and how he is the most respected research scientist on the planet and how he absolutely shits all over epidemiology studies. He's really irrefutable and I've never seen anyone in any field challenge him, for fear of getting blown the fuck out.
I'm becoming an expert in owning vegans.
Any questions?
Josiah Howard
No because bloodwork shows that most vegans are substantially healthier than meat eaters.
Carter Thomas
Source on any of your health claims?
Nolan Martin
Holy shit if I ever see this guy in my gym I'd fucking beat him
Ryder James
Would you say eating fish is enough to get the nutrients that you lack in a vegan diet? I have mostly been eating a vegan diet and supplemented with vitamin B, made solid gains and really don't feel any different from when I used to eat meat. I'm thinking about adding fish to my diet since it's an animal I know I am capable of killing. What do you think?
Anthony Cruz
I like ya OP so I'll say some more.
You need to triage them with suppliments with the goal of getting them to eat plants. They aren't going to go from vegan to salmon fillets right away because THEIR BRAINS DO NOT FUNCTION CORRECTLY which is a circular error caused by veganism. Veganism causes nutritional deficiency which diminishes mental capacity which leads to poor thinking which leads to doubling down on veganism.
So you need to give them suppliments and shit until they can think straight. Also, why not give them suppliments that are placed in 'vegan' suppliment bottles, to trick them? Is it moral to deceive someone for their own good when they are foolishly harming themselves? In the case of beloved family members I would say absolutely yes.
I'll monitor this thread with questions. Going the dha/epa fish route is the way. They'll realize if they can and should eat fish then why the fuck not eat cows too?
Chris Kresser is pretty redpilled on this so check out his stuff.
Take a triage / bridge approach. You might need to start them off on actual algae suppliments, but you need to get them epa / DHA by hook or by crook.
I'll monitor this thread for questions. Also check out Ted Kadzinsky's (sp?) writing on how vegetarians / vegans the themselves. He is absolutely fucking right.
Vegans hate themselves so they elevate animals to be on a higher level of importance to themselves, their health be damned.
James Murphy
Thanks bro! i'll see if I can get them taking some fish oil, thats a good suggestion!
Is there a certain brand thats best?
Easton Clark
Me again. I'm phone posting so can't source anything but an easy to understand starting point are multiple psychology today articles about the fish oil connection to mental health. They cite studies. Don't get sucked down the truck road of epidemiology studies, because they have so many that (erroneously) associate veganism with health when they are in fact poorly designed studies with confounding factors, healthy user bias, and author bias (seventh day Adventist).
Do not debate them on morality that is a red herring.
Do not debate them on epidemiology studies, the cards are stacked and you won't be able to cut through the bullshit without very nuanced and informed analysis.
DO confront them on the notion that their individual personal health is more important than the lives of animals. If they agree that animals are more important than their health, keep trying, but if they truly believe this then they are a lost cause.
Jonathan Sanders
>Chris Kresser For sure my man, always trust le chinese medicine man who has been exposed countless times
Hunter Mitchell
>le chinese medicine man He's white?
>who has been exposed countless times source?
Carter Nelson
>confront them on the notion that their individual personal health is more important than the lives of animals Any sources that veganism is less healthy than being omnivore?
Eli Cooper
I use Dr. Tobias. Nordic Naturals are also good. Take huge doses. I take and gave my vegan gf two tablets of Dr. Tobias, twice a day. Results come in about 1-3 weeks.
BE CAREFUL about cognitive dissonance. Once their minds are nursed back to health, you need to give them time and space to come to terms with the fact that they've been really fucking retarded for the entirety of their vegan times.
Get them Ancestral Supplements beef liver too. B-complex, standard multi, and a k-2, also magnesium.
It ended up being a fuckload of pills, more than a dozen per day, for several weeks, for my gf to snap out of it.
Unless they get into fish and beef for at least a week, they aren't going to fix their minds on a vegan diet, they need well researched suppliments to get there.
Don't bother with vegan suppliments, they don't work, obviously.
Henry Davis
Vegan detected. Fuck off.
Gavin Morris
>He's white? He is a fucking acupuncturist who believes in chinese medicine and has no credentials to talk about diet or heart disease.
Just look up Chris Kresser debunked on Youtube, he was caught misrepresenting studies to fit his narrative.
Jacob Long
B12 is stored in substantial amounts, mainly in the liver, until it is needed by the body. If a person stops consuming the vitamin, the body's stores of this vitamin usually take about 3 to 5 years to exhaust.
Jaxson Hall
Don't listen to the vegan dissing Kresser. Just look up his appearance on Joe Rogan and he will redpill you. I can't speak to his other views but he does pretty well at refuting the health claims of vegans.
Liam Smith
I would guess that this won't be necessary, since OP's family health is in the shitter already. Came to this thread because I have the same problem with my aunt and three cousins. They're killing themselves right before our eyes, and it I can't think of anyway to help them. Thanks for the tips. I'll try to appeal to the fact that being healthy and alive they can be more effective to whatever cause they care about.
Easton Myers
I'm not vegan, I am asking for sources to debunk vegans. They always pull the health card.
Luis Ramirez
Take it from a former vegan of many years, no amount of studies will convince them of anything. I mean, generally just showing people evidence doesn't actually persuade them, because they can always find contradictory evidence somewhere.
Animal welfare, and even the decision to stop consuming animal products, aren't bad things nor are they signs of mental health issues. The problem is that people who are less mentally stable tend to be drawn to veganism, and the physical health effects eventually exacerbate the mental problems. Combine that with an overwhelming feeling of righteousness and morality, and you get vegans, basically.
At first going vegan feels great. You not only don't have the guilt from eating animals, who very often live extremely torturous lives and deaths, but you physically feel better because most people who eat meat and animal products eat way too much. Doing a little vegan fast thing on occasion is always beneficial and worthwhile, so vegans end up feeling really good for a few weeks/months. It can be hard to go back to meat, and to accept that that healthy feeling isn't going to be a long-term thing.
OP, if I could suggest anything, it would be to get them eating mussels. Mussels literally don't have brains, so they're basically plants that happen to be pretty nutrient dense. That's what I did, I just started eating mussels, and then shrimp, and then eggs/fish, and then everything again. I try to eat organic as much as possible, but I admit I'm a piece of shit for over-indulging in meat and eating non-organic meat just because it's convenient and I feel like it.
Evan Miller
Bwhahahaha this is the exact kind of shit i'm talking about. You ever ask a vegan to prove something they just claimed, and instead of actually backing it up they direct you to some bullshit vegan vlobgger on youtube as their source. Are vegans all seriously this mentally deficient?
Nolan Watson
Why didn't you stop at eating mussels instead of going full meatard again?
Adam Williams
I'm the guy posting a lot about fish oil and I endorse this.
Mussles are a good stop gap to fix this.
However, it will be a slow road and if they need immediate corrective intervention you should give them high doses of epa / DHA and beef liver tablets (which address b12 and iron simultaneously).
Props to you ex vegan bro.
Oh another fun rhetorical trick to use on vegans is to use their 'no true Scotsman' fallacy against them. When they claim the so and so was never a true vegan because they did this or the wrongly and therefore had to incorrectly (they claim) resort back to eating animal products, they may has well were never vegan in the first place.
Turn this around on them and claim that they themselves are not actually vegan because at some point in the future they themselves will resort back to eating animal products and therefore they aren't a true vegan either. This is a trick more for bystanders, the clever logic of it will fly over the heads of most vegans.
Pro tip: most of the YouTube vegans aren't vegan at all. Proof: all of the ones who got caught and admit they stopped x months ago (while still doing pro vegan videos in the mean time) and had to do it for their health.
Connor Torres
>I-it's a Youtube video so it proves nothing >watch this video of Kresser on the Rogan podcast tho
Classic. You can choose to ignore that he misrepresented studies or face the reality that your favourite acupuncturist is a dishonest snake oil salesman, your choice.
Logan Kelly
become swole and lead by example
Jeremiah Kelly
As much as you might want to, you can't save people from themselves
>Stooping to vegans' level of self delusion and attacking their moral / ethical arguments is a ploy because you will never ever convince them that way. >Instead you must make them realize the lack of animal products is causing them personal significant harm to their health.
That's my approach too. I've noticed that Vegans almost entirely talk about the ethical argument, and treat nutrition as an after thought.
They say meat eaters go through mental gymnastics to defend eating meat. I'll give them that. Veganism is straight forward. But Vegan nutrition is pure mental gymnastics themselves. And most think they can just throw some tofu in there and be done with it.
Caleb Lee
Op tell your parents to get to get more cholesterol into their diets. It's criutial for the production of hormones
Jeremiah Scott
Your body produces enough cholesterol
Alexander Ross
IRL you can just throw the "vegans kill far more creatures than I ever could" right in their face. (then explain how little harm eating grass fed beef does to animals and the environment)
>What is chemical pesticides and what does it do to small animals? >What are rodecides (sp?) and how many animals are killed for your brocolli? >Do you know what intensive harvesting does to innocent animals trying to survive?
Most vegans don't even know that animals die in their brocolli farms
Fish oil bro here. This too. Although the body does produce it's own cholesterol... Why do you suppose it does that? Perhaps it's important enough to eat some, even if just a little bit. Pro tip: they are figuring out that dietary cholesterol doesn't mean what they thought it meant for atherosclerosis.
>. (then explain how little harm eating grass fed beef does to animals and the environment)
But that's wrong. Huge amount of space and water is used for cattle. It's super inefficient. If anything, cutting out beef would be a nice middle ground. Vegetables, eggs, chicken, fish, seems pretty solid.
You're right. We should instead build communities for illegal immigrants in the vast swaths of near wasteland desert and prairies that are currently being used as ranchland for grazing.
Joshua Fisher
I have no clue what you're going on about. Some kind of attempt at a sarcastic quip?
Robert Ward
Vegans are half right, but they take it to such an extreme they end up hurting their health. As with everything, technology will fix this issue. We're gonna make lab grown meat and we'll be chowing down on whale meat burgers without having to kill whales.
Jackson Rivera
Nah I still prefer to eat the cows that are raised on ranches not in petri dishes
Jonathan Gutierrez
Wow maybe people will finally realize the ideal diet is like 90% vegan ... not 100%. Fucking extremists.
Benjamin Lee
My brother handed me a mc chicken and I started eating it right when I opened this thread.
Evan Barnes
For real! I probably sound like a nutjob here but this lab grown meat thing sounds like in 50 years we'll be hearing about the links to cancer.
Joseph Moore
I believe he's asking what the fuck else all that land was going to be used for. You want to free up good land for productive use? Burn the fucking golf courses.
Nolan Butler
>I believe he's asking what the fuck else all that land was going to be used for.
Literally anything. Wind farms. Solar farms. National parks. Anything.
>Burn the fucking golf courses.
Those are a huge ugly waste. But farm land is WAY bigger.
Austin Miller
Another vegan reveals himself for the commie bastard that xe is.
Jackson Martin
you forgot the most important part: the blender bottle on the safety bar, and the mcdouble if far better than the mcchicken, 3 for free
John Kelly
>Another vegan reveals himself for the commie bastard that xe is.
I'm literally posting while eating egg-white spinach cheese scramble as I'm posting this.
It's retarded to react to veganism by being the complete polar opposite of veganism. That's just mindless contrarianism. Veganism makes somse sense on a superficial level, and it has some appeal. It only breaks down when you look deeper into it.
The goals of improved environmental sustainability are laudible. Veganism should not be the approach. Too extreme too unhealthy. Too weird.
Ian Cooper
Don't worry I've gone carnivore for them. I'll eat all the meat, cheese, and eggs they're leaving on the table.
