There is a lot of hysteria and counterhysteria about estrogens, phytoestrogens, and other estrogenic/anti-androgenic compounds in our food, water, lifestyle, etc. It's hard to keep track of the rapidly-growing estrogen blacklist maintained by Jow Forums broscientists. No beer, no flax, no chia, no fap, no plastic, no conventional, maybe even no milk! While the jury is still out on many things, there is one that should stand above the rest, the food that started the whole debate, S-O-Y. Make no mistake, if you are eating a serving or few of S-O-Y, you might as well be taking estrogen pills, and I'll walk you through the math that shows you why.
First of all, I hear a lot of arguments about how "phytoestrogens are safe because they are not animal estrogens." Gentleman, this is ignorant beyond belief. That's just like saying that plant toxins can't hurt you. It doesn't matter that it is a plant compound—if it can bind to estrogen A receptors, the kind of estrogen receptors responsible for feminization, then that's all that matters. And guess what? We KNOW that s-o-y isoflavones are at least very weak agonists of estrogen A receptors, exhibiting anywhere between 0.003% to 0.3% of the activity of estrogen itself, depending on the compound. >journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0063199
Now, you might be thinking: >Wow, that's pathetically weak. S-o-y isoflavones are hundreds to thousands of times weaker than estrogen? Clearly nothing to worry about. And for most phytoestrogen-containing foods, you would be right. For example, broccoli has phytoestrogens, but only in small amounts (94 µg per 100g), and it also contains enough androgenic and anti-estrogenic compounds like DIM and zinc, making it weakly androgenic overall. But s-o-y? Ho-lee FUCK you are eating weaponized amounts of phytoestrogens by eating that.100g of s-o-y contains over 103,920 µg of phytoestrogens. >source: superfoodly.com/estrogen-foods-list-50-high-phytoestrogen-sources/ It is a numbers game, and the math shows that eating even moderate portions of s-o-y is likely to wreak havoc on your body from the sheer amounts of phytoestrogens. From 100g of s-o-y, if you account for lower estrogen receptor affinities, you are basically consuming ~310 µg of estrogen per day. For reference the human body only produces about 54 µg to 630 µg of estrogen per day. >source: bestfoodfacts.org/is-there-estrogen-in-milk/ (I know it's a milk shill site, but it is quoting an Animal Science professor from Penn State, and this fact has nothing to do with milk or s-o-y. For the record, I drink almond milk instead of regular milk because I doubt these milk estrogen levels were recorded from factory-farmed, chemically-induced pregnant cows, but I digress.)
That's right, by eating just 100g of s-o-y, you are effectively multiplying your estrogenic activity by up to SIX times or more. If only even a fraction of that was absorbed into your bloodstream, you would still be seeing significant increases in estrogenic activity. Why ANY reasonable male would want to ingest a food known for alleviating hot flashes in menopausal women, a symptom of cratering estrogen levels, is beyond me. Put all of the culture war politics aside. It should be beyond a doubt that s-o-y is bad for men and should not be consumed in any quantities whatsoever.
tl;dr the memes are true. s-o-y has tons of estrogen and will feminize you.
I started eating a single container of Natto a day. Pretty modest serving, just ~80g (less than 3 oz) My estrogen more than doubled and after two weeks I couldn't maintain an erection.
Charles Lopez
And if you're STILL not convinced that higher estrogen is bad for men, or that onions cannot affect the endocrine system of males in vivo, for God knows what reason at this point, then here's a ton of research that might change your mind: >"Onions protein, regardless of isoflavone content, decreased DHT and DHT/testosterone with minor effects on other hormones" ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15735098 > "Isoflavone-rich onions protein isolate suppresses androgen receptor expression" ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=Link&db=pubmed&dbFrom=PubMed&from_uid=17585029 >"Onions beans contain genistein, a natural compound that has estrogenic effects because it binds the estrogen receptor with relatively high affinity" science.gov/topicpages/s/onions phytoestrogen genistein.html >"daidzein metabolite has significant estrogenic and anti-androgenic activities" ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3243088/ >"Onions protein isolate increases urinary estrogens" ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17885008 >"Antiandrogens that block the androgen receptor are very effective in preventing prostate cancer in rats" ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4591929/ >"Consumption of onions foods is associated with lower risk of prostate cancer" ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3226387/ >"Basedmilk consumption may modify circulating estrone concentrations in men." ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11303585 Don't fucking touch that shit if you have even the slightest concern for your sexual health, your fitness, or your mental health.
I take 4 scoops of myprotein söy daily. It's cheaper, doesn't give me gas, and guess what? No boobs. It's perfectly fine to drink
Nathaniel Howard
Can I still eat onions sauce and miso soup with sushi?
Adam Kelly
If you want a quick rundown on phytoestrogen-containing foods, then visit: superfoodly.com/estrogen-foods-list-50-high-phytoestrogen-sources/ Keep in mind that they neglected to include pumpkin seeds, which are about as bad as sesame seeds in phytoestrogen content (extremely high). >s-o-y sauce Only 150µg per 100g, which will do fuckall at such small quantities. Besides, who eats 100g of s-o-y sauce? Broscience alert, but small amounts of phytoestrogens could even be anti-estrogenic by displacing bodily estrogen with a much weaker phytoestrogen at the estrogen receptor. You're fine. >miso soup 1,470µg per 100g. Still not really enough to be a cause for concern. Adjusted for receptor affinity, you're only eating ~0.4µg of estrogen per 100g. For reference, the lower range of daily estrogen production in your body is 54 µg. You're also fine here. Besides, you probably don't eat this very often so you shouldn't be worried about it.
John Myers
Why is this estrogen bad? What are the negatives? I see something you linked says "onion foods is associated with less risk of prostate cancer". Thats good right? My dad had prostate cancer so i'm 2.5 times more likely to get it at some point, so this is important to me.
"Reduces risk of prostate cancer" is usually code for "tanks your testosterone or DHT levels." Your risk for any particular kind of cancer is usually quite low, so multiplying it by 2.5 doesn't do anything. You should do other things to reduce your general risk of cancer, like eating well and exercising regularly. If you're that concerned about prostate cancer, then take the s-o-ypill, but be warned that it will have negative effects on your quality of life. Forgot to evade the s-o-y filter when copypasting links. Oops.
Easton Powell
heh nah just crazy to me that that filter is still a thing.
So I'm gathering that unless you make foods high in onions a part of your everyday diet, you'll be fine?
Sebastian Thompson
Thanks bro. I eat healthily, lift, and do 2 1/4 mile runs for cardio daily. I'd think my odds of getting any cancer is very low. I do drink a lot of milk though 1/4 gallon a day minimum, sometimes 1/2 a gallon. Thoughts on that?
Benjamin Rogers
Essentially. Take a look at the superfoodly phytoestrogen foods list that I linked earlier. Most processed s-o-y isn't as bad as pure basedbeans but is still pretty bad. S-o-y sauce is 100% benign though. Don't forget that chia and pumpkin seeds (which were left off this list for some reason) are as bad as sesame seeds IIRC. >I do drink a lot of milk though 1/4 gallon a day minimum, sometimes 1/2 a gallon. Thoughts on that? If you're going to be drinking milk, try to go for organic or source it locally from pasture-raised cows. On a side note, you should never eat non-organic meat and dairy because you're bound to consume high phthalate concentrations from factory-farming feed contamination and plastic wrapping. Phthalates are even worse than BPA for your endocrine system and were linked to interrupted genital development in mice.
Evan Barnes
Now chia seeds are estrogenic? At what quantities...
Anthony Bell
Imagine preparing a literal blog post uninterrupted in order to shill onions on Jow Forums
thanks for this info. i thought the s-o-y fear was overblown on here, and considered incorporating tofu since im mostly on a vegetarian diet, but i never knew this shit was used by females to remedy symptoms of low estrogen. fukkkkk dat.
Chase Long
The phytic acid bit is retarded because it's an argument against almonds.
Josiah Richardson
Also, s-o-y bro, do you have a definitive list of foods to avoid?
Jace Morgan
well...yeah, maybe almonds arent good for you not him but
Gabriel Foster
>maybe almonds arent good for you DON'T FUCKING TAKE THEM FROM ME YOU BASTARD
Phytic acid isn't the worst thing in the world. Just don't eat your zinc-rich foods with phytic acid rich foods. Have your oats in the morning, have your PBJ at lunch, and have phytate-free foods like potatoes with your spinach and beef for dinner. For phytoestrogen content? Check out this link. >superfoodly.com/estrogen-foods-list-50-high-phytoestrogen-sources/ Most of the foods are fine, but anything in the top 10 is going to be highly estrogenic. Examine your diet. Do the math. You should avoid all s-o-y products (minus onions sauce and miso soup), chia seeds, hemp seeds, flax seeds, pumpkin seeds, and sesame seeds. Those are the worst offenders off of the top of my head.
Leo Carter
Then why do lots of sources claim Lignans have anti-estrogenic effects? (typically flax and chia seeds are claimed to be good for breast cancer because of lignan, which is allegedly anti-estrogenic)
Juan Watson
Because they're weak estrogen agonists, which means that the dose makes the effect. In small doses, they have the potential to be anti-estrogenic, since they are much weaker than estrogen by potency, and they would be competing with bodily estrogen for the same estrogen receptors. This means that you would be reducing estrogenic activity, as you are crowding out the real estrogen with shittier versions of it. However, with higher doses of phytoestrogens and chronic exposure, you would end up with increased estrogenic activity, since there would be far more activation of estrogen receptors than one could have hoped from bodily estrogen alone. Now, consider all of these potential situations, and then add in complications such as ease of absorption, ability to cross the blood-brain barrier, clustering in certain tissues over others, and you could get a lot of very interesting and perhaps healthy effects. Personally, I don't think you should take chia seeds as a male for extended periods of time. Seems like a terrible idea on paper with no real plus sides. Maybe small amounts might be helpful, but that is basically little more than speculation right now.
Owen Roberts
>did you raise your test? >yes >what did it cost? >everything
Ian Powell
There goes my healthy breakfast recipe, it really is hard to find concrete nutrition evidence. (Almost as if nutrition has multiple competing objectives and the best general policy is moderation to balance them out...)
John Jenkins
Imagine being such a KEK that you're scared to eat so y foods. I'll eat them as often as I like and I'll still be 100x the man you'll ever be you tremendous bitchmode faggot.
Caleb Watson
Don't worry about almonds. Phytic acid isn't even that big of a deal, especially if you avoid eating phytate-rich foods with your zinc heavy-hitters and supplements. You're still going to get some zinc from oats, nuts, etc., despite phytic acid, and phytates only block zinc absorption in the meal they were consumed in.
Adam Cruz
Why don't you cut off your balls to prove how much more of a many you are while you're at it? I'll be waiting :^)
It's not almonds, it's chia seeds aka lignan aka phytoestrogen
Josiah Jackson
There are thousands of combinations of healthy diets, depending on your lifestyle restrictions. You should limit some foods, sure, but there are tons that are still available to you, especially if you get creative. I'm a brainlet and replied to the wrong post, my bad for the confusion.
Daniel Evans
>onions I fucking hate this goddamn word filter. Wish the janitors would make an exception for Jow Forums to use the word s-oy. Jow Forums ruins everything.
John Peterson
>pol ruins everything >not the senstive cocksucking faggot ass japanese "male" that bought the site and is scared of people making fun of his diet
