Lately, there has been hysteria about estrogens, phytoestrogens, and other endocrine disruptors in our food, water, accessories, etc. Some of it is justified, some of it is overblown, and some of it is misinformation. It's hard to keep track of the rapidly-growing blacklist maintained by Jow Forums broscientists. No beer, no flax, no chia, no fap, no plastic, no conventional (must be organic minimum, ideally local), maybe even no milk! While most "estrogenic" foods contain paltry amounts of phytoestrogens, there is still one food that towers over the rest in its estrogenicity, the food that started the whole debate. S-O-Y. Make no mistake, if you are eating a serving or few of S-O-Y, you might as well be taking estrogen pills. I cannot be more clear about this. With just one 100g serving of s-o-ybeans, you are mathematically GUARANTEED to be ingesting the equivalent of several times your body's endogenous estrogen production, and I'll walk you through the math and science to show you why
Before we begin, I need to dispel one common misconception. I hear a lot of rebuttals about how "phytoestrogens are safe because they are not animal estrogens." This is ignorant beyond belief. That's just like saying that plant toxins can't hurt you because it came from a plant. It doesn't matter that it is a plant compound—if it can bind to estrogen A receptors, the kind of estrogen receptors responsible for feminization, then that's all that matters. And guess what? We KNOW that s-o-y isoflavones are, at least, very weak agonists of estrogen A receptors, exhibiting anywhere between 0.003% to 0.3% of the activity of estrogen itself, depending on the compound. >SOURCE: journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0063199
Now, you might be thinking: >Wow, 0.003% to 0.3% of the activity of estrogen? That's pathetically weak. S-o-y isoflavones are hundreds to thousands of times weaker than estrogen? Clearly nothing to worry about. And for most phytoestrogen-containing foods, you would be right. For example, broccoli has phytoestrogens, but only in small amounts (94 µg per 100g), and it also contains enough androgenic and anti-estrogenic compounds like DIM and zinc, making it weakly androgenic overall. But s-o-y? Ho-lee FUCK you are eating weaponized amounts of phytoestrogens by eating that.100g of s-o-y contains over 103,920 µg of phytoestrogens. >source: superfoodly.com/estrogen-foods-list-50-high-phytoestrogen-sources/ It is a numbers game, and the math shows that eating even moderate portions of s-o-y is likely to wreak havoc on your body from the sheer amounts of phytoestrogens. From 100g of s-o-y, if you account for lower estrogen receptor affinities, you are basically consuming ~310 µg of estrogen per day. For reference the human body only produces about 54 µg to 630 µg of estrogen per day. >source: bestfoodfacts.org/is-there-estrogen-in-milk/ (I know it's a milk shill site, but it is quoting an Animal Science professor from Penn State, and this fact has nothing to do with milk or s-o-y. For the record, I drink almond milk instead of regular milk because I doubt these milk estrogen levels were recorded from factory-farmed, chemically-induced pregnant cows, but I digress.)
That's right, by eating just 100g of s-o-y, you are effectively multiplying your estrogenic activity by up to SIX times or more. If only even a fraction of that was absorbed into your bloodstream, you would still be seeing significant increases in estrogenic activity. Why ANY reasonable male would want to ingest a food known for alleviating hot flashes in menopausal women, a symptom of cratering estrogen levels, is beyond me. Put all of the culture war politics aside. It should be beyond a doubt that s-o-y is bad for men and should not be consumed in any quantities whatsoever.
tl;dr the memes are true. s-o-y has tons of estrogen and will feminize you. only s-o-y sauce and miso soup is safe. for any other s-o-y product. don't fucking touch that shit if you have even the slightest concern for your sexual health, your fitness, or your mental health.
1.He built his body and strength while he was an omnivore 2.He's on more gear then you can possibly ever afford 3.He's constantly injured 4.He's a laughing stock in terms of lifting now.
Juan Price
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Logan Bailey
so he is proof that if you do a vegan diet correctly, AKA not being a raw foodist because raw vegetables are extremely toxic and deficient, then you'll be ok?
Matthew Myers
more like proof if you juice then all the onions in the world won't matter because you'll likely be on estrogen blockers anyway >because raw vegetables are extremely toxic and deficient are you fucking retarded nigger
Christian Brown
No, he's proof that if you build a very solid base whilst still eating meat, then go vegan and take a dick ton of gear then you will will be "ok"
Caleb Walker
wrong
Brayden Cooper
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Adam Thomas
actual man-boobs lmao I bet you think they're pecs
Justin Morris
literally the opposute you utter brainlet
Xavier Anderson
I'm not reading the ramblings of a "muh test muh estrogen" autist who also likes these shitty ryan gosling memes
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Ryder Cruz
I'm not reading that shit, but I'll take your word for it.🏳️
Your argument is retarded. You claim that you are multiplying your body’s estrogen by merely eating that many units of estogren, but how bioavailable is it? What % if that estrogen makes it into your blood stream? Your reasoning is garbage because you disregard both bioavailability and whether these estrogen like compounds even behave exactly the same as human estrogen.
>info based on animal studies and non vivo non human models ok read this then
degruyter.com/view/j/abm.2014.8.issue-2/1905-7415.0802.286/1905-7415.0802.286.pdf >Effects of daidzein on testosterone secretion in cultured immature mouse testis > The results revealed that in the presence of 100 ng/ml hCG, 10–7 to 10–5 M daidzein had no significant effect on testosterone secretion in cultured 3-day-old mouse testis. But 10–4 M daidzein significantly increased testosterone concentration (p < 0.05). Daidzein in range of studied doses had no obvious influence on testosterone production in cultured 21-day-old mouse testis ijcep.com/files/ijcep0054961.pdf >. In conclusion, Onions IsoFlavon es could alleviate testicular damages, increase testosterone levels, and upregulate the expression of proteins and genes related to testosterone synthesis in DIO male rats, which would be important for obesity male reproduction treatment. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224 >The results of this meta-analysis suggest that neither onions foods nor isoflavone supplements alter measures of bioavailable T concentrations in men. fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(09)00966-2/pdf >The results of this meta-analysis indicate that neither onions protein nor isoflavones affect reproductive hormone concentrations in men regardless of age or cancer status. Although the duration of most trials was
>Your argument is retarded. You claim that you are multiplying your body’s estrogen by merely eating that many units of estogren, but how bioavailable is it? What % if that estrogen makes it into your blood stream? Your reasoning is garbage because you disregard both bioavailability and whether these estrogen like compounds even behave exactly the same as human estrogen. I already addressed this. You didn't read the calculations.
Assuming full absorption, you still multiply the effective estrogen content SIX times over from the phytoestrogens in 100g of s-o-ybeans. If even a fraction of that was absorbed, you still would have a significant increase in estrogenic activity in your body. The sheer amounts of phytoestrogens in s-o-ybeans ensures that you will be getting pro-estrogenic effects.
Adrian Howard
Low concentrations of s-o-y phytoestrogens can out-compete endogenous estrogen at the estrogen receptor. When you crowd out a signaling molecule with a less potent signaling molecule, you reduce the activation of the estrogen pathway, thus lowering estrogenicity. I've always suspected that low amounts of phytoestrogens are at least harmless or are possibly even good for you, so keep the s-o-y sauce or the miso soup. But incorporating significant amounts of s-o-y products is asking for an endocrine disaster, and this is supported by moderate-high dose, chronic use of s-o-y products in studies , which show either an affect on the endocrine system directly or an affect on the endocrine system by proxy (i.e., reducing test to reduce prostate cancer risk).
>that brainlet who posts graphs with minimal context provided
Ryder Nguyen
Also I forgot mention that your first study showed what happened when you supplement hCG, which is sort of a weak AAS in that it forces your testicles to produce extra endogenous testosterone. This study doesn't prove anything in clinically relevant settings and is as relevant as the vegan lifter on gear.
Tyler Parker
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Camden Sanders
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Jack Roberts
Go to examine.com
Read research publications about Soi , conclusion..... ITS NOT BAD,
Arguing against science is the worst kind of autistic
Nolan Howard
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Chase Jackson
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Thomas Johnson
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Adam Gray
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Jordan Mitchell
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Ian Edwards
there's a few studies there that did show lower test after intervention. you can't just average them all away especially since many of those studies were in elderly men. also note the study your graphs come from is funded by onions corporations and I believe literally written by a director
Jaxson Jackson
I don't understand why anyone would eat onions to begin with. It tastes disgusting and even if you're a vegancuck there's better milk alternatives. Also, have you seen what that shit does to the soil?
John Evans
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>long live skelly squad >dino niggers extinct
Juan Mitchell
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Brody Reyes
i mean, wouldnt the phytoestrogens, which are weaker than actual estrogen, keep the receptors occupied in turn leading to lower overall estrogen being absorbed? iirc i read that women that consumed too much soja actually had issues with decreased e levels because of it
Adam Martinez
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Brody Gutierrez
AWAKEN MY MASTERS
Grayson Sanders
>muh graphs I cannot read It's from the meta analysis that I linked You can understand what the graphs mean, stop pretending, your theory got absolutely blown the fuck out. > I've always suspected that low amounts of phytoestrogens are at least harmless or are possibly even good for you Check the doses used in the studies analysed I'm assuming you're brainlet OP in which case you would be wrong that 100mg of ISF is enough to cause feminizing effects in adult humans. It isn't, in fact up to fucking 900mg which is found in like a kilo of onions flour is not enough to cause feminizing effects on men >But incorporating significant amounts of s-o-y products is asking for an endocrine disaster I just showed you that this is wrong researchgate.net/publication/7355282_Effects_of_a_genistein-rich_extract_on_PSA_levels_in_men_with_a_history_of_prostate_cancer This study put men on 900mg of isoflavone extracts a day for 6 months. At the end of the intervention only ONE experienced lower testosterone, while five others experienced higher. >and this is supported by moderate-high dose, chronic use of s-o-y products in studies It is not and the reason why this is still being studied after so many conflicting findings in prostate cancer research > which show either an affect on the endocrine system directly or an affect on the endocrine system by proxy (i.e., reducing test to reduce prostate cancer risk) The same study I linked shows that this is wrong. >The total testosterone level was lowered in one of the patients responding, but it was higher in five others. A genistein-rich extract as the sole treatment for CaP did not reduce PSA levels by 50% or more in 51 of 52 subjects. Thus, it does not appear to be an effective treatment for CaP when given alone. However, 8 of 13 evaluated patients in the active surveillance group had either no rise or a decline in PSA levels of less than 50%. More study is warranted for those choosing active surveillance.
Yeah I don't get the obsession with fearing estrogen this much. Obviously you don't want large amounts but to actually have a significant effect on you you'd need to have a ridiculous diet
Daniel Jenkins
From what I've read the jury is still out on the effects. I wouldn't take any broscience on fit seriously without researching for yourself.
you tried to argue a meta analysis is "1 study." you can backpedal all you want, the fact is that you are a moron who knows absolutely nothing about research papers. keep thinking your retarded shit, I don't particularly care, just know that you're a lot less intelligent than you think you are.
p.s. here's an image containing something scientists actually learn about
Here in Canada, the new thing they're pushing is bug protein
Gabriel Walker
it should be no surprise that an extract is far less bioavailable than the whole food. kill yourself retard.
Charles Cox
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Austin Morris
What about diet whey? I'm losing weight and I use phd diet whey protein shakes that have soi protein
William Gray
>only s-o-y sauce and miso soup is safe
Nice. I came into this thread entirely to ask about this.
I didn't really need convincing about the beans themselves, as I am not a retard, and realized that there are so many different beans that somebody can pick from anyway that there's no loss in dropping one off the list at the slightest suspicion.
Am I supposed to feel some kind of loss at only having black beans, kidney beans, pinto beans, garbanzo beans, fava beans, navy beans, and Great Northerns to pick from now that S-O-Y is off the menu? They taste like shit anyway.
