MANDATORY VACCINES

>what else could the vaccines do to you?
look up "vaccines side effects"

auto-immune disorders for one

even if 100% of vaccines TODAY are perfect and super healthy, a new one in the future may be flawed in some way. we've had issues with contaminated vaccines in the past.

there's no reason to absolutely trust these medical people 100% of the time. 99.99% of humans in all of history were never vaccinated. i'll take my chances

Physician here. You imbeciles don't deserve vaccines nor do conspiratards.

Ya I would agree because Liberty is one of my highest values, but I also value the right to Life and a super bug plague pretty much infringes on that more than a shot. Idealism is a pretty liberal trait btw, and thinking people aren't stupid enough to allow a plague to fester in a society with the technology to prevent it is a pretty thicc case of idealism.

>(((physician)))
Sure thing Dr. Schlomosbergstein

>99.99% of humans in all of history were never vaccinated
And people died all the time because of that, especially young kids.

>right to Life
this doesn't apply in this scenario

- no vaccine is even alleged to be 100% effective
- nobody is taking your life

your theory is that if everyone isn't FORCED AGAINST THEIR WILL to be vaccinated, someone will get sick and infect a VACCINATED person, who will die, and their "right to life" is violated

this is bullshit. first, they got sick on their own, despite having a vaccine, proving that it couldn't have been prevented by vaccination

fact is, due to nocebo effect, if someone thinks vaccines are bad and they get forcibly vaccinated, it will cause them to give up on life and possibly go on a murder spree

skepdic.com/nocebo.html

>A nocebo effect is an ill effect caused by the suggestion or belief that something is harmful. The term 'nocebo' became popular in the 1990s. Prior to that, both pleasant and harmful effects thought to be due to the power of suggestion were usually referred to as being due to the placebo effect.

>Because of ethical concerns, nocebos are not commonly used in medical practice or research. Thus, it is not unexpected that the nocebo effect is not well-established in the scientific literature. However, there are some anecdotes and some studies that are commonly appealed to in the literature to support its validity.

If someone SERIOUSLY believes the vaccine will kill them, and you legally force them to get it (and they can't fake their vaccine records, which a lot of people WILL CERTAINLY DO) it might make them give up on life, be suicidal, and go on a murder-rampage shooting everyone in a hospital

how about YOU get a vaccine and then you'll be 100% immune from these diseases. mmkay?

cool story bro. MANDATORY vaccines are pure evil. nobody is stopping you from getting 100 vaccines a day

BTW i have fake vaccine records, so you dumb normies think i'm vaccinated but i'm not. i also cough all over your stuff

Right. I'm sure you realize of the vaccine courts which give out billions in settlements. Why does such special court exist?

They died because of poor sanitary conditions. The fucking toilet did more for humanity than the shitty jew poison. The only reason why I advocate for vaccination is because I believe in eugenics. Let the weak die, let the courts settle it.

(((physician here)))

lmao stay mad Shekelstein

Not Jewish.

I'm aware that lawyers do exist and that they can make claims and forward them to a judge, who is not a scientist and often knows nothing about vaccines. What's your point?

you need to vaccinate close to everyone to achieve herd immunity

you may argue: "well only idiots who dont get vaccinated will get diseases."
Two problems with this:
1)It's not a child's fault they didnt get vaccinated
2)vaccines dont work 100% of the time to begin with, thats why having herd immunity is important. If 40% of the word gets vaccinated and 60% dont, some of the vaccinated people will still get the disease, because the disease is so common (due to the 60% unvaccinated people)

it is true that vaccines have been assosciated with pretty serious problems such as guillain barre, but that is exceedingly rare. anecdotally, none of the patients with GBS that ive taken care of have gotten it from a vaccine.

Given that there is so much resistance to vaccinations in the US, it probably would not be a good idea to force them for the time being because of muh freedumz. We need people to be better educated.

The idea of smallpox or polio coming back bevause antivax got enough traction is simultaneously hilarious and frightening.

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>Not jewish

yet you do their bidding, you should join the military while youre at it

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Diseases are a good thing, they weed out the population.

if you post on here, you have nothing to worry about. chances are that you sleep in your own filth, rarely shower, piss in jugs and hardly see other people.

>you need to vaccinate close to everyone to achieve herd immunity
doesn't justify infringing my rights

>1)It's not a child's fault they didnt get vaccinated
you can solve that problem by putting them in a bubble. it's not my responsibility to worry about someone else's health

>2)vaccines dont work 100% of the time to begin with, thats why having herd immunity is important.
it is important. i support vaccination. i simply oppose LEGALLY MANDATORY VACCINES because:
- that infringes on rights
- people will still avoid getting them
- there will be massive backlash

>some of the vaccinated people will still get the disease
seems like a big reason why people just won't get them

>it is true that vaccines have been assosciated with pretty serious problems such as guillain barre, but that is exceedingly rare
'rare' is subjective. some people don't want to take the risk

>anecdotally
don't care

>Given that there is so much resistance to vaccinations in the US, it probably would not be a good idea to force them for the time being because of muh freedumz. We need people to be better educated.
yes "educated"
forcing them never works and only creates MORE resentment, and a huge demand for fake records

The reason anyone is suggesting mandatory vaccines is because OLD PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WITH CANCER CAN NOT GET THEM. And if everyone else has vaccines they won't be susceptible to the diseases they can't get vaccinated for. I think you should be able to chose to not get a vaccine but if you do so you must not be let into hospitals or other places with vulnerable people. If you choose to be a dumfuck then that's your choice but don't let it affect my grandma or friends with cancer.

Go lick a mosquito you dumbfuck.

>if everyone else has vaccines

but mandatory vaccines will not achieve this. you will only achieve a huge black market for fake vaccine records

how can you force someone to get a vaccine they don't want? you must literally hold them down and inject them. imagine if they are armed and fight back

>you must not be let into hospitals or other places with vulnerable people
including those old people and people with cancer?
oh, no, they get SPECIAL TREATMENT
should all peole without vaccines be forced to wear some badge, like jews during nazi germany?

>OLD PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WITH CANCER CAN NOT GET THEM
actually they can. you just shove the needle in and inject. it works

replying to that post there

rare in comparison to
1) serious morbidity from getting the disease the vaccine would have prevented
2) alternative etiologies for GBS
for anyone who "doesnt want to take the risk," they are putting themselves at much higher risk by NOT getting vaccinated (even though it's still very low)

>seems like a big reason why people just won't get them
again, it would work much better if more people got vaccinated so those diseases have less prevalence to begin with

>grew up in the woods in alaska
>home schooled

>didnt even have a birth certificate until i was 5 or 6

>have traveled all over every major metropolis in the mainland US

>never gotten sick from anything the vaccines are supposed to prevent

hmm

you're based and redpilled
want to hookup?

blah blah blah
i'm not saying it wouldn't be BETTER if every human on the planet was vaccinated. don't attack a strawman

i'm saying THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. once you make it MANDATORY you will get a huge public outcry, and most people who oppose it will just get fraudulent vaccine records

>they are putting themselves at much higher risk
they should be allowed to make that choice! just like we should tell people eating mcdoanld's for every meall will cause obesity, we shouldn't make laws preventing them from doing it

a law just means you can get shot for disobeying, really. you can't have mandatory vaccines without violating human rights

>it would work much better
a lot of things would "work much better" if we had a eugenics policy too

An epidemic like the Black Death wiping out a huge chunk of the population would unironically be great for the survivors, just like it was for those who didn't die from the Black Death.
>tons of land available cheap
>wages increase significantly and unemployment doesn't exist
>housing prices, pollution and traffic fall dramatically
>governments would be desperate to get their populations back up so they would likely push reproduction hard, you just might get your state-sponsored breeding cow gf

I never said they should be mandated, you are shooting a strawman

Yes they should get special treatment because they can not get vaccines even if they wanted to

Some people will die if they get vaccinated

>I never said they should be mandated
that's literally the topic of the thread. if you don't think they should be forced, that's cool

you will never be able to actually enforce discrimination against non-vaccinated people

>they can not get vaccines
i don't see why they can't
they are free, and also they have skin which can be punctured and liquids injected into them

>Some people will die if they get vaccinated
and some people will be unhappy, possibly suicidal. who are you to decide what people should be forced to endure?

are you pretending to be dumb or do you really not understand why some people cannot get vaccines?

sounds like you want to argue just for the sake of argument

I'd never thought I'd see the return of Jow Forums tier antivaxxers here on Jow Forums

No wonder antivaxxers survive so long, you guys literally entrench yourself inside a basement and begin to spout odd anecdotes and fringe cases as hard boiled truth.

Even the fucking OP phrased it like he was on Jow Forums

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my point is: any reason you can give for someone to not have to be forcibly vaccinated is just as good as someone saying "i simply do not want one"

112.international/society/30-of-certificates-on-vaccination-in-ukraine-are-falsified-unicef-28514.html
>30% of certificates on vaccination in Ukraine are falsified - UNICEF

it could happen here too

The vaccine basically has a small portion of the virus in it which causes your body to build up an immunity to it. People for example with leukemia for example could die from the small amount of virus in the vaccine.

Non vaccinated people isn't a race or gender it's just willing retardation and if someone chooses to put other people at risk around them by not vaccinating then they will be treated as a threat to vulnerable people.

so you're saying
>i dont want a vaccine because i have an inherent or acquired immune deficiency that would make receiving a live attenuated virus a potentially life threatening ordeal
is just as good as
>i dont want a vaccine because a celebrity claims it can give me autism (which i already have)

just don't get flu shots

>could die
so it's not guaranteed? basically it's just a risk you don't think is worth taking?

but the risk is worth taking for the people who litearlly think vaccines will kill them? despite this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocebo

>Non vaccinated people isn't a race or gender
so? there's sex-segregated bathrooms. there should be legal (not forced) racial segregation too, no reason why that should be banned from private establishments

>it's just willing retardation and if someone chooses to put other people at risk around them
this is wrong. an unvaccinated person not exposed to the virus is not any more likely to infect someone that is vaccinated. you actually have to be exposed. unvaccinated people, by default, aren't any more dangerous

> they will be treated as a threat to vulnerable people.
cool story bro. start discriminating against them and they'll just lie about it. see:

yes, absolutely

because "i don't want a vaccine" is all that matters.
starting with "because" and anything after that is pretty much irrelevant, and not even worthy of consideration

mandatory vaccines will just create more people that aren't vaccinated, so you should oppose it more than me =^)

People look at antivaxxers all wrong. You see people scared of vaccines because they don't trust the people at the top and just go "ree vaccines r gud" when really the point is people don't trust the people at the top. (((They))) don't want that to be the discussion though.

Being anti-vac is normal as fuck.

They're not mystery liquids, we know what they are and how they work. If you personally don't, try staying awake in science class sometime or looking up the specific vaccine.

>creating laws won't even work
It's because you have a population full of absolute retards that eat up any and all alarmist garbage fed to them. Plenty of countries have mandatory vaccination, and it works, most people aren't dumb enough to complain about good health. But burgers always need an extra large dose of dumb shit to argue about to make sure nobody goes after the 0.1%'s shekels, so you end up with all these manufactured retarded social issues.

>blah blah americans are stupid even though the invented virtually all of these vaccines i want injected into my ass daily

nobody gives a fuck. you pro-mandatory vaxxer NPC retards are pathetic. you get so angry that someone could dare to not want to be injected, even though nobody is stopping you from getting 100 vaccines. kill yourself

112.international/society/30-of-certificates-on-vaccination-in-ukraine-are-falsified-unicef-28514.html
>30% of certificates on vaccination in Ukraine are falsified - UNICEF

Vaccinated people don't give a shit. People with ongoing chemotherapy and babies do.
Fuckwad.

>People with ongoing chemotherapy and babies do.

are you saying that their feelings are more important than mine?

well then, fuck you. now i cough on door handles purely out of spite

Vaccines are perfectly safe. If you check "side effects", they are minor and so rare they cannot outweigh the risk of getting measles or pertussis. Let alone polio.
Then again, you sound like a perfect pertussis candidate.

>Vaccines are perfectly safe
your opinion

>they are minor
another opinion

>so rare
O P I N I O N
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>they cannot outweigh the risk of getting measles or pertussis. Let alone polio.
protip: even if you're not vaccinated, you probably aren't going to get those things

>Then again, you sound like a perfect pertussis candidate.
revealing your true colors. "i hope you suffer. reeeeee"
fuck off you piece of shit

i am not against vaccines (i got them myself) i am against FORCING them. it wouldn't work! it would reduce vaccination rates actually

>Racial Segregation
Non-sequitor
>Non vaccinated people pose that isn't infected doesn't pose any risk
>Not infected
>Doesn't pose a risk
>Cannot infect others because they don't have the condition due to others have immunity
????

It really isn't. It's a trend that cropped up since 9/11 conspiracy theories died down

>NPC
>Retreating to dogma techniques on a single webpage
Could have used the one about the rushed vaccine for Swine Flu leading to some people having narcolepsy but I doubt you've done your homework.

>Calling things opinion
You have to go back lad

>pertussis

funny

> Study: Whooping cough outbreak linked to vaccinated children
digitaljournal.com/article/323187
>An investigation by California doctors has revealed that the state's latest outbreak of whooping cough centered around children who had already received the whooping cough vaccine, Reuters reports.
>In 2009, four separate Canadian studies concluded that the seasonal flu shot massively increases the likelihood of contracting the H1N1 flu. According to Science Daily, recipients of the seasonal flu vaccine were up to 250% more likely to be infected by the H1N1 variant than those who did not receive the injection.

also, literally almost nobody dies from this.
"what doesn't kill me makes me stronger"

it probably helps build the immune system

wikipedia:

> About 50% of infected children less than a year old require hospitalization and nearly 0.5% (1 in 200) die

their physical wellbeing is more important than your feelings

also in an earlier post
>starting with "because" and anything after that is pretty much irrelevant, and not even worthy of consideration
Who is to judge whether or not it is irrelevant? Could it be that it is simply your....
O P I N I O N
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>>Cannot infect others because they don't have the condition due to others have immunity
no, they cannot infect others because they lack the infectuous agent in the first place

don't you admit that no vaccine is 100% effective? you must admit this, and once you do, you accept a person can get whatever they were vaccinated against

>It's a trend that cropped up since 9/11 conspiracy theories died down
literal bullshit. you're just making up nonsense. people have been against vaccines since they first came around. there are no accurate figures and never will be

>Could have used the one about the rushed vaccine for Swine Flu leading to some people having narcolepsy but I doubt you've done your homework.
i am not talking about the negative effect of people getting vaccines. my argument is about FRAUDULENT VACCINE RECORDS. there really aren't going to be many accurate stats on those, because it's impossible to know

>You have to go back lad
well it IS your opinion, and it's dumb

"just get the vaccine goy, it has negative effects but they're nothing to worry about. just take this injection, trust me goy"

what isn't an opinion is that mandatory vaccinations violate the non-aggression principle

forcing people to get injected is a violation of human rights

>their physical wellbeing
is not threatened by me. PROTIP: someone can be unvaccinated and not carrying a disease

plus, mandatory vaccines wouldn't even work! that's why i oppose them. it will just create black-market fake vaccine records, and also cause people to get hysterical (after forcibly injected) possibly going on shooting rampages

the non vaccinated children still represented a disproportionately large percent of the infected, since non vaccinated children only account for 6% of the population to begin with (source: CDC).

what this really shows is that the vaccine is not 100% effective, not that the vaccine predisposes people to getting pertussis (which is the tone implied from the article).

you're right they probably wouldnt work, at least in today's society. pretty unfortunate

digitaljournal.com/article/323187#ixzz5dBnsIK3D

>Witt and his team surmised that the effectiveness of the vaccine wears off after several years, creating the need for additional inoculations.

>Unfortunately, drug maker Glaxo Smith Kline (GSK), the manufacturer of the whooping cough vaccine, did not bother to perform long-term studies of its effectiveness.

WHAT THE FUCK WE NEED TO HAVE REGULAR VACCINATIONS
I'M SCARED OF NEEDLES WE NEED TO STOP EVERYTHING I DON'T WANT AUTISM VACCINE

>the non vaccinated children still represented a disproportionately large percent of the infected, since non vaccinated children only account for 6% of the population to begin with (source: CDC).
show me the actual source

>what this really shows is that the vaccine is not 100% effective, not that the vaccine predisposes people to getting pertussis (which is the tone implied from the article).
of course it isn't 100% effective!

>Forcing vaccinations infringes on my human rights

my fear of needles led me to avoiding flu shots for pretty much all of my life until my job mandated it

>pretty unfortunate
no, the unfortunate thing is that someone would even try to force other people to get a vaccine. imagine forcing people to take vitamins, or to eat vegetables, or to exercise. WTF??? a law means you can ultimately get shot for not following it

cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6640a3.htm

there you go

yes, it does. how does having someone violently hold me down so they can inject me with stuff I DO NOT WANT IN MY BODY somehow not violate my human rights?

They're not a mystery. You can find all of the ingredients online.

the difference is that you not eating healthy or exercising essentially only has consequences for your own life, while you not getting vaccinated has consequences for others. its sort of like why drunk driving is illegal, although that is an extreme comparison

where does that source prove that

>the non vaccinated children still represented a disproportionately large percent of the infected

??? where???

>violently hold me

Jesus christ

>Things against my will
>I've extrapolated this against the population to suit my argument
>Even if it ignores the net welfare gains
I bet you must think being arrested for murder infringes upon your human rights too aye lad

tell me how a mandatory vaccine would work if some cop knocks on my door and says
>time for your injection
and i say
>NO FUCK OFF YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO TOUCH ME

tell me WHAT HAPPENS

read your own damn article man.

it states 80% of the kids who got pertussis were vaccinated, 11% were incompletely vaccinated, and 9% were not vaccinated. hence, even though non vaccinated children make up 6% of the population (see prior source), they make up 9-20% of the children who were infected with pertussis (see your own article)

the other link says:

> After examining the records of juvenile whooping cough patients over an 8-month period, the doctors discovered that 81 percent of patients had received the full series of whooping cough shots, and 11 percent had received only some of the shots. The remaining 8 percent had not received any immunizations for whooping cough.

so only 8% of the people who got infected didn't have an immunization. sounds like a very small minority LOL

your own link shows a large variation in vaccine rates too, so the 6% average for the whole country may not apply to this specific area

they would probably just fine you a retard tax. if you dont pay the retard tax, they would probably fine you additional delinquent fees.

then, after not paying for a while, they will report you to the retard collection agency and your credit score will suffer

1. it said 8% were not immunized
2. that 6% is for the whole US population, and thus isn't accurate for this. there's a lot of variation between states (and probably more between counties)

OP, just come clean. Just admit that today Jow Forums has been a bit slower than usual and that you've come to this board.

It's fine, we won't report you for underage despite you coming across as a 15 year old that just found /b/. We'll pretend your mistakes were autocorrections from your phone.

Just please, fuck off back to Jow Forums and take the other shillers with you. This board doesn't give two shits about vaccines.

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so basically, you will create a black market for fake vaccine records? got it

Holy shit that photo is hilarious. What a load of absolute conspiratard garbage.

How do I feel about mandatory vaccines? Not even worried. How are they going to enforce it? Nobody is going to be kicking my door down.

Also, They're necessary at time. I've never been vaccinated in my life.

Which is probably part of the reason why I nearly died in my 20's from a simple flu. I had been living by myself and I caught a bad strain. I couldn't get out of bed for two days... then, once I realized I was probably going to die if I didn't get food and water in me, I spent an hour crawling down my hallway to get to a phone.

It was actually really fucking close, my dude.

I'm not sure you know what mandatory vaccines are. You might be mentally ill

since when did Jow Forums become so radically leftist? i guess you need big public safety nets so the taxpayer can buy your tendies

i know exactly what "mandatory" means

mandatory - required by law or rules; compulsory.

so, what happens to a person that refuses to get one?

i hope you die from some preventable disease before your children do

>I nearly died in my 20's from a simple flu
flu vaccine is garbage and rarely even works.

the vaccines >90% of people are given is for other shit

you nearly died for being retarded.

>if I didn't get food and water in me,

you literally had ONE JOB... god you're pathetic. this is why i have canned soup just in case of emergency. normally i make my own food but in the case i was sick i need something easy i can just microwave in 2 mins and eat

>Anything that disagrees with my opinion must be politically opposite of me
America needs to get nuked

>i hope you die from some preventable disease before your children do

wow, why so full of hate? why are you so evil?

I WAS VACCINATED you dipshit. nobody had to force me. i understand vaccines are GREAT but making them mandatory is EVIL and INEFFECTIVE. only a true brainlet thinks otherwise

did you know that banning crack cocaine didn't stop people from smoking it? people break the laws, and would break 'mandatory vaccination' laws.

i hope you die, incel

>I am ready for when SHTF

>i don't like your opinion. just go back to Jow Forums
>not leftist

pick 1

More common than you think. School nurse tried to inject me. I got violent because I didn't want it, as i'd already been immunized and they didn't even tell me what it was. Started flipping out, broke the restraints, kicked the table over, then swung a bunch of stuff in front of me to act as a blockade. Kept throwing shit. They called the cops and it was this whole big thing, I kept screaming I DON'T WANT IT I'M ALREADY IMMUNE I DON'T WANT IT LEAVE ME ALONE. Called my mom too, who tried to tell them i'd already gotten immunized from the doctor's office but the cops came forward. I'd like to tell you I fought the good fight and won, but I don't like to lie. I kicked on in the nuts and the other fucking tackled me to the ground, got handcuffed, shoved in a police car, and they stabbed me against my will while a cop held me down. Got the rest of the week off and a few kids who said they were 'traumatized' by the incident got a few days off as well. Not that user though. It happens.

>flu vaccine is garbage and rarely even works
look at you going at it again with your opinions!

>having microwavable canned soup for when you get a cold/flu is the equivalent of being a tinfoil-hat conspiratard prepper

no, it's common sense moron

Yeah, I ordered hot and spicy thai soup, then called my brother. And it's hard to move when your fever leaves you absolutely wiped. But it was preventable.

Your contempt means nothing to me. It's the blind thrashing of a paranoid fool who reads too much alt-news.

> north Americans strike again
Is there any other Western country with this prevalence of anti scientificism?

no, that's basically a fact. there's 1000s of flu viruses and the vaccine is just a guess

also: >In 2009, four separate Canadian studies concluded that the seasonal flu shot massively increases the likelihood of contracting the H1N1 flu. According to Science Daily, recipients of the seasonal flu vaccine were up to 250% more likely to be infected by the H1N1 variant than those who did not receive the injection.

the % of people who get flu vaccines is very low compared to the >90% who get the ones for shit people sometimes die of. almost nobody dies of the flu

>Accuses the board of being lefty
>Suddenly butthurt when told to go back to Jow Forums
Kys lad

I LOVE VACCINES
I WAS VACCINATED

why do people think if you don't want to FORCE VACCINES on people that DO NOT WANT THEM then you must absolutely think they will immediately cause autism or something?

you can love vaccines and also hate people that want to force them.

i love vitamins and hate people that want to make it a crime not to take vitamins

>Suddenly butthurt
never happened. thanks for the bump though