Is ss seriously the best beginner routine?

But I'm too fat to do chin ups =0

when will you people realize that there's nothing magic about any given training cookie cutter program

LP stands for linear progression holy shit

Lat pulldowns

Do as many as you can or do assisted chin ups.

No, it sucks.

SS is best if you actually do the program as intended like it's explained in the book.

Ah my bad, No one has ever typed out the LP part before. With all the lifting everyone here does, i guess their wrists will explode if they type out 8 syllables.

>Linking to a reddit post

then add accessories to it. It's only 3 a day. SS is a very modifiable program past the first stages.

the entirety of this argument hinges on the fact that there is a 0% chance that people have gotten hurt due to poor form but instead because of the program. What a load of shit you wrote out.

SS won't make you big, dyel.

>the entirety of this argument hinges on the fact that there is a 0% chance that people have gotten hurt due to poor form but instead because of the program. What a load of shit you wrote out.
bad form is caused by the parameters of the program:
>2) adding weight to the bar as fast as possible is retarded for a beginner who has barely learned the lifts. >this will lead to form breakdown and injury when they're working under their 5rm

among people who actually train athletes (e.g. not you) it's well-known that tons of people can't do conventional deadlifts due to restrictions in hip mobility:

strongerbyscience.com/trap-bar-deadlifts/
> A lot of people just simply can’t get enough hip flexion ROM to deadlift from the floor, no matter how much mobility work they do

if you can't do a third world squat without bending your ankles, that's not tight soft tissue. it's your hip capsule. exact same thing

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>2) adding weight to the bar as fast as possible is retarded for a beginner who has barely learned the lifts.
oh wow, 5lbs a session starting with the bar. That just, wow. Sounds impossible. And that's ignoring the fact that you only add weight after every successful workout, if you fail to do 3x5 you keep the weight there for the next session. If you actually read the program you're critiquing you'd know that.
>this will lead to form breakdown and injury when they're working under their 5rm
that fucking argument implies that you can never ever push your strength limits on any program ever. Of fucking course you're going to get to a point where you can't finish a set, that's called progression. It literally happens to everyone in every type of workout.

>not linking directly to a study and instead some retard stretching results
hip mobility being bad enough to not do deadlifts at all effects less than a small percentage of lifters and most anyone should be able to train themselves through strength training and stretching to be able to do it. My roommate used to not be able to do deadlifts thanks to his mobility but now he's doing traditional 2pl8 reps no problem.

you're a fucking idiot.

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SS is a good place to start, just don't forget to add accessories

>hip mobility
It's called stretching faggot

>oh wow, 5lbs a session starting with the bar. That just, wow. Sounds impossible.
You don't start with the bar, you start with a weight that's hard for you and you add 10lbs for 2-3 workouts til the bar slows down. read book plz

>And that's ignoring the fact that you only add weight after every successful workout, if you fail to do 3x5 you keep the weight there for the next session.
congrats, you get 15 more reps
absolutely negligible for learning anything
if you are training yourself to draw a straight line on a piece of paper, how many reps do you think it will take? 15? 30? 100?
way more than that.
now imagine you have to draw a straight line but if you go off-center at all, you hurt your back.

>that fucking argument implies that you can never ever push your strength limits on any program ever. Of fucking course you're going to get to a point where you can't finish a set, that's called progression. It literally happens to everyone in every type of workout.
no, it implies that you have to thoroughly learn the form of an exercise before you go for 5rms
a program like 531 gets you stronger by prioritizing rep increases rather than weight increases, which is safer for noobs

>hip mobility being bad enough to not do deadlifts at all effects less than a small percentage of lifters and most anyone should be able to train themselves through strength training and stretching to be able to do it. My roommate used to not be able to do deadlifts thanks to his mobility but now he's doing traditional 2pl8 reps no problem.
sounds like he's been lifting for a long time kek
what really happens is you start with a minor ache, then it gets progressively worse, and if you keep lifting it becomes something that could require surgery. and he won't know what hit him because he's still a beginner
if he's lucky, he has the right hip for it. but why take that risk when better lifts are available

>just stretch through your bones bro

Do SS, just dont drink the milk, its not that complex

>You don't start with the bar
Yes you do. You start with no weight, THEN add weight. You are completely making this up.
>you start with a weight that's hard for you
"Most healthy men between the ages of 18 and 35 or 40 can add 10 lbs to the squat the first 2-3 times it’s performed, 15-20 lbs to the deadlift the first couple times, and 10 lbs the next several times it’s performed. After that, jumps become 5 lbs per workout."
If you start when the weight is hard you've put too much on. That's the reason you start with just the bar. Once it starts to get hard you slow down to 5 per workout.

as for your second paragraph I have no fucking idea what the hell you're going on about or trying to imply. If you can't progress, keep the weight there until you can. That's...that's the fucking basics of strength training. You don't deload until weights start getting much heavier.

>no, it implies that you have to thoroughly learn the form of an exercise before you go for 5rms
I'm not gonna split hairs here but I would never call anything with multiple sets of the reps a max. Regardless, your reasoning here still makes no sense. The whole point of SS is to learn the basics of these exercises by starting at 0 and working your way up to harder weight. By the time you are failing, you'll have gotten a good feel for the exercise.

>what really happens is you start with a minor ache, then it gets progressively worse, and if you keep lifting it becomes something that could require surgery. and he won't know what hit him because he's still a beginner
so, do you have any evidence that isn't complete theory? Or why 90% of people who do traditional deadlifts are completely fine?

goddamn you are fucking stupid.

>Yes you do. You start with no weight, THEN add weight. You are completely making this up.
Ok, read the book. Pic related

>as for your second paragraph I have no fucking idea what the hell you're going on about or trying to imply. If you can't progress, keep the weight there until you can. That's...that's the fucking basics of strength training. You don't deload until weights start getting much heavier.
Since you forgot already, this is the first statement I made:
>this will lead to form breakdown and injury when they're working under their 5rm
Your response was that you only add weight after every successful workout.
The logical conclusion is that you only get an additional 15 extra reps of practice, which will still lead to form breakdown under load because you haven't had a chance to learn the lift properly yet.

>I'm not gonna split hairs here but I would never call anything with multiple sets of the reps a max.
If you're failing on the second or third set then it's basically a max. SS pushes you to get to the point of failure, and do it up to 3 times before switching programs.

>Regardless, your reasoning here still makes no sense. The whole point of SS is to learn the basics of these exercises by starting at 0 and working your way up to harder weight. By the time you are failing, you'll have gotten a good feel for the exercise.
You haven't, because you've only done maybe 100-200 reps of the exercise.
The "point" of SS and what it actually accomplishes are two different things.

>so, do you have any evidence that isn't complete theory?
Already posted an article by Greg Nuckols, who is an accomplished powerlifter and trains other athletes.

>Or why 90% of people who do traditional deadlifts are completely fine?
You don't know that. The videos you see on Youtube are purely survivorship bias.

>goddamn you are fucking stupid.
Post IQ 2 pl8 boy.

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SS + GOMAD
never going to make it

My experience with following the SS routine WITHOUT reading the book for form tips.
I hurt my lower back by doing squats and deadlifts on the same day, I had to go down to about, 1 pl8 dead lift and progress it 5 pounds at a time and squats were probably at 35 pounds.
Now a days I'm doing 2 plates for reps on deadlifts. I do one plate squats because i hate them.

>some literally who on a forum
>tells me to read the book
pic related. Page 177. Fucking retard.

>because you haven't had a chance to learn the lift properly yet.
by this logic you cannot learn a lift properly ever because you will always have some weight on the bar. You are a retard.
>also
>successfully performing an exercise 15 times in a row will lead to form breakdown
retard

>If you're failing on the second or third set then it's basically a max
no...no it's not. If you're on the third set and you've failed to hit 5, that's not a max. If you're on the first set and you can't hit 3x5 you're lifting too heavy and that is noted in the program that you should be able to hit 3x5 every session. If you aren't you aren't following the program.

>SS pushes you to get to the point of failure, and do it up to 3 times before switching programs.
yeah that's basically every beginner program out there you fucking idiot

>You haven't, because you've only done maybe 100-200 reps of the exercise.
this is non-logic and you have absolutely nothing to back up that you haven't gotten the basics of the squat down from over a month of exercise.

>Already posted an article by Greg Nuckols, who is an accomplished powerlifter and trains other athletes.
you posted an article that takes a study and stretches the results to argue that a trap bar might be beneficial for some people with bad genetics who physically are incapable of ever squatting. That effects only a small percentage of people, which makes your post nothing more than pointless fear mongering for people who haven't actually tried it. Most people who attempt deadlifts will be fine, especially if they never go heavy.

>You don't know that. The videos you see on Youtube are purely survivorship bias.
as are your anecdotal stories you cuck

>Post IQ 2 pl8 boy.
don't really see the point this far into your retard antics.

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do negatives buddy

Lmao at all this name calling. Robbed by the social gains goblin

best beginner program hands down

lol completely had his argument shut down so he's just grasping for anything to discredit my post.

Nope. Cope.

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>read the book hurr
here's the page where your claim is proven false
>uhhh you called me mean words so you are mean you can't be right!

phoneposter as well, makes sense for a brainlet like himself. Just stop while you're behind dude.

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>pic related. Page 177. Fucking retard.
Do you have a learning disability or something?
The pic you posted says that you use the empty bar to warmup, not that you use it as the ending weight in the first workout.
Tell you what. Go to Rippetoe's forum and ask him yourself. He knows his program better than you do.

>by this logic you cannot learn a lift properly ever because you will always have some weight on the bar. You are a retard.
No, I have already stated that a program like 531 where you lift with submaximal weights is superior.
Meaning you're not working anywhere close to a 5rm.
You're not adding weight every workout and trying to reach a number of reps which may be outside of your ability.
You're just doing AMRAPs with light weights, like a bodybuilder.

>no...no it's not. If you're on the third set and you've failed to hit 5, that's not a max. If you're on the first set and you can't hit 3x5 you're lifting too heavy and that is noted in the program that you should be able to hit 3x5 every session. If you aren't you aren't following the program.
Arguing semantics. Irrelevant.
The point is that a noob is pushed to failure up to 3 times as part of the program, and that's a horrible idea since you have barely learned the lift.

>yeah that's basically every beginner program out there you fucking idiot
A beginner program shouldn't do this within the first 3 months.

>this is non-logic and you have absolutely nothing to back up that you haven't gotten the basics of the squat down from over a month of exercise.
Okay? You don't have anything to back up your argument either, just Rippetoe's words kek
Notice that Starting Strength has no sources.

>you posted an article that takes a study and stretches the results to argue that a trap bar might be beneficial for some people with bad genetics who physically are incapable of ever squatting. That effects only a small percentage of people, which makes your post nothing more than pointless fear mongering for people who haven't actually tried it. Most people who attempt deadlifts will be fine, especially if they never go heavy.
Greg Nuckols, an accomplished powerlifter, recommends that the general public use the trap bar instead of the conventional deadlift. End of story.

>as are your anecdotal stories you cuck
Post a single study backing up anything you have said.

>don't really see the point this far into your retard antics.
I knew you wouldn't.

>Do you have a learning disability or something?
Do you? He has always wanted you to start with the empty bar and it's right there in the fucking page you fucking inbred child. What does "lifting for the first time" mean to you? He is not talking about warming up "for the first time".

>Meaning you're not working anywhere close to a 5rm.
3x5 is not a 5rm. Not gonna go over this with you again.

>The point is that a noob is pushed to failure up to 3 times as part of the program, and that's a horrible idea since you have barely learned the lift.
again, failure is natural. No idea where you got the idea you're never supposed to fail. And it's 3x in a row at the same weight which will take a while.

>A beginner program shouldn't do this within the first 3 months.
it doesn't have to. SS is progression until you can't progress anymore. And SS is only meant to be run for a few months anyways.

>Notice that Starting Strength has no sources.
you are really reaching here.
>Greg Nuckols, an accomplished powerlifter, recommends that the general public use the trap bar instead of the conventional deadlift. End of story.
Mark Rippletoe, an accomplished strength coach and former-powerlifter, says you should do a deadlift normally.

>Post a single study backing up anything you have said.
They don't do studies on things that don't happen.
"Hey wanna fund this study to show that squatting doesn't hurt you?"
"....no?"
"Okay then"

please keep going. You're just digging a deeper hole.

Lifting weights is a dumb waste of time.

Friendless attitude. Ngmi in any fashion

>Do you? He has always wanted you to start with the empty bar and it's right there in the fucking page you fucking inbred child. What does "lifting for the first time" mean to you? He is not talking about warming up "for the first time".
He is telling you to warmup with a bar no matter whether you're learning the lift or you know it already.

>3x5 is not a 5rm. Not gonna go over this with you again.
Irrelevant

>again, failure is natural. No idea where you got the idea you're never supposed to fail.
You're not supposed to if you're a beginner at the lift. That's how you get injured.
>And it's 3x in a row at the same weight which will take a while.
It doesn't take a while, in most cases people fail 3x at the same weight, because the program has you literally do nothing different while you're working your way back up.
Without a different or more intense stimulus, your body has no reason to overcome the plateau.

>you are really reaching here.
Not at all, it's all anecdote. Literally.

>Mark Rippletoe, an accomplished strength coach and former-powerlifter, says you should do a deadlift normally.
He isn't accomplished, his deadlift was only 600lbs. Greg Nuckols has reached 725 in the same weight class.

>please keep going
You too lol, funny as fuck

>>some literally who on a forum
>>tells me to read the book
>pic related. Page 177. Fucking retard.
dude, he's saying to start your workout with an empty bar (a warmup), not that you start lifting with an empty bar as your max weight as a novice

Post lifts.

i think if you are a hardgainer you should absolutely only do ppl, if not with SS you will gain some muscle

but if you want to get big fast and can afford more days at the gym go with ppl all the way (the reddit version is the best)

post body

you must be deformed if you can't stretch into a squat

Gayest workout ever.

Read the book, and switch to the intermediate routine after a few months. Most people don’t actually need GOMAD