Redipl me on carbs

I don't have any issue with carbs, but I take easy on grains, starches, refined sugar. I get almost all of my carbs from veggies like broccoli, carrots and fruits like apples and bananas.

My diet is meats, vegetables and fruits from bushes. No processed anything. No refined anything. No added sweeteners.
>So I'm basically keto because when you remove all the bad shit that's really all your left with

Oats, brown rice, fresh fruit, occasionally potatoes

Bread/pasta is a no no

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>all these American housewife-tier diets
Lol, no wonder you guys have to take roids to make any kind of gains.

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This is bullshit. The body can replace carbs with protein and fat. In order to gain muscle effectively and fast you need an insulin spike after a workout when repairing your muscles is your bodys priority, so fast converted carbs have a valid usage 1-3 hours after an intense workout. the rest of the time you could leave carbs out theoretically but on a micronutrient level you`ll probably eat less shit if you don`t. If you want to use the exchange of protein and fat effectively whithout getting rid of all carbs you should check out the glycemic index of stuff and don`t eat fat stuff and high glycemic stuff together. the point is not every carb automatically leads to an insulin spike telling your body to store fat immedately. Also depending on your genetics you need 25-35% fat in relation to your other micros to build optimal levels of test,dopamine and endorphine. If you just want to lose fat as priority you`re best move is to cut out carbs despite mushrooms and shirataki noodles which are a lot of food mass for nearly no calorie value.

Universally bad.

so basically it doesn't matter
lack of carbs increases fat oxidation, but if you are simply eating more fat s in exchange the fat balance is still gonna be the same if you are eating a similar ammount of calories

Have sex

How heavy do you lift?

I'm beyond 1/2/3/4 and I can't make any progress with 5 rep ranges if I haven't had any decent carbs before hand.

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post body

how much is in a bowl of rice in japan?

>so basically it doesn't matter
At the end of the day, yeah.

If you eat primarily carbs, your body burns primarily carbs and stores excess fat. It's not difficult for the body to convert glucose into fat, but it would rather just store fat and use carbs as energy.

If you eat primarily fats, your body burns fats because there are no carbs (the preferred source of energy) and will still store excess fat. It's very easy for the body to store excess dietary fat as body fat because nothing needs to be done to it, just push it into a fat cell. However, it's a little harder to overeat fat without carbs.

If you don't eat carbs, your body will synthesize the glucose it needs from proteins, mostly the all important BCAA's go towards energy production (which means they aren't being synthesized into your muscle tissue).

I'd comment about insulin and insulin sensitivity, but it wouldn't be brief and you could find better quality explanations in a textbook or studies.

Post an counter argument

I have carpal tunnel so I stick with dumbbells which is awful for upper body gains. Basically can't do anything higher than 90lbs per hand for OHP/bench. My row/DL sit at 240(varies)/550(-+hands go numb sometimes). Squats at 435.
>Also run for awhile keeping my heart rate at 180+ and resting alternating that for 10 minutes
>I take adderall so I have god tier motivation

tell me this then
is there an actual detriment to muscle growth on a low carb diet if you're eating enough protein?
on paper there doesn't seem to be, but in practise it's hard to see many ketogenic lifters and bodybuilders who excel at their sport.

>>I take adderall so I have god tier motivation
Yeah I have some caffeine powder which helps a lot when I happen to not eat as many carbs.

kek

Yes. I've been both on keto multiple times and just regular high-carb deficit and the only difference was the fact that fats make me eat less. I've done cuts where I eat junk food and a bar of chocolate that brings my carbs up to ~300g for the day and I've still lost weight in the same way that I did under keto, the only difference is that the trash diet gave me all the energy needed to lift normally and also bloated me with water whereas keto drains the water bloat and gives the illusion of lost weight.
It all truly boils down to CICO and memes like keto and OMAD are there only to help you eat less, which they actually do. You can live a perfectly healthy life on soda, chocolate and processed food if you're lucky enough to not get diabetes, and many people actually do do that and remain 10% bf skellies regardless of what they eat, again, purely because of CICO. There might be some long-term effects from that which may come out when you're approaching your 70s, but do you truly care about that?

1 bowl completely fill

Oy vey don't do keto goys

In my opinion just avoid grains

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>carbs bad
>artery clogging fat and cholesterol good

only DYELs advocate lowcarb
nobody who looks good or is actually strong eats low carb
ketofags are always skinny fat or overweight, formerly overweight/obese, and think they wouldn't lose that weight eating carbs and that their experience means anything in context of weightlifting and bodybuilding

I would love for this to be true so I could stop wasting my time with low carb experiments, but unfortunately there are trade-offs, with low carbs you look way more vascular and impressive, with higher carbs you perform better at the gym and look bigger in clothes.
I get skin issues from eating even a moderate ammount of carbs but I also feel like I need the carbs to make gains, it fucking sucks.

Yeah OP, avoid legumes. They are just the healthiest food group in the world, packed with vitamins, minerals and protein that apart from boosting your test will bring you health and longevity.
Also ignore the direct correlation between legume consumption and longevity on all populations on earth.
>INB4 veganfag
Im not, but we are made to eat mainly legumes and roots. Try to open your mind and look outside your all meat/keto bubble and hou will see it.

Because the vitamin A is in the form of beta carotene which is not the same thing and extremely poor conversion in the body. Sweet potatoes also contain antinutrients such as lectins and oxylates which prevent you from absorbing the nutrients that you think you are getting anyway. Not to mention the other health issues they cause, particularly to the digestive system.

>You can live a perfectly healthy life on soda, chocolate and processed food

Studies that are now published on the gut microbiome seem to suggest otherwise

I have lost 10 kgs (20 pounds) in a month and a half eating whole unprocessed foods including rice. Never buying into this ketoshit

>It all truly boils down to CICO
Found the American.

>Average waist size 41"
>"It's just calories in/out, bro, trust me"

Advice appreciated.Will do.

So basically carbs, like I said.

There are certain pathways that literally require carbs to absorb protein. You won't gain a single pound of lean muscle mass without carbs. You don't need much, about 15-30 grams of carbs are enough but you fucking need them.

The problem with modern society is too much carbs.

If you need 3k kcal a day just to exist on this planet but you're consuming 5k kcal a day just in carbs alone, most definitely you'll get fucking fat and ugly (implying you're not fat and ugly already).

Post them

>The problem with modern society is too much carbs.
Lmao

I know it's not the same thing, but it has such an enormous ammount of it that it becomes meaningless.
>Sweet potatoes also contain antinutrients such as lectins and oxylates which prevent you from absorbing the nutrients that you think you are getting anyway.
to what degree though?
eggs also have anti nutrients, fish has anti nutrients too
I get no issues from sweet potatos but I do get them from eating eggs

You are talking to a double-digit IQ cult member.

nature.com/articles/nature20796
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30747427
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6282467/
researchgate.net/profile/Bonnie_Kaplan/publication/271908350_The_Emerging_Field_of_Nutritional_Mental_Health_Inflammation_the_Microbiome_Oxidative_Stress_and_Mitochondrial_Function/links/54d632e60cf25013d02f4412.pdf

Heaps more if u wanna do a quick google search

What are you on about?

Pic related is what I was talking about. Grains.

>the healthiest food group in the world, packed with vitamins, minerals and protein that apart from boosting your test will bring you health and longevity

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Sorry, you are retard. We were not discussing if gut microbiome affects on health.
Where is a single word about sugar, carbohydrates and processed food in this studies?

Jesus christ I think u are the retard here mate, your diet literally influences what kind of microbiome you have

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5385025/

it does, but gut bacteria changes aren't predictable of health outcomes if derived from diet changes

>show studies on topic X
>**shows studies on topic Y**
>but this is not topic X!
>REEEEE YOU ARE RETARD!!!!

At this point your english is so shit it is hard to tell if you are trolling or a chink, either way maybe this image will help you wrap your head around it

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>For example, it has been shown that a high-fat diet adversely reduces A. muciniphila and Lactobacillus, which are both associated with healthy metabolic states [53].
>These microbial shifts directly oppose those induced by intake of natural sugars (glucose, fructose, and sucrose)-as mentioned above.
LMAO ketards BTFO

notice how you have literally no arguments against what I said
gut micriobiome memes are irrelevant, they don't predict health outcomes at all, since your gut bacteria change at dramatic rates depending on the fucking 3 meals you've eaten previously

They dont change at dramatic rates, infact the microbiome is relatively stable at adult stages in life and takes years of diet before any noticable health outcomes are measured. The two main times of instability of the microbiome where dramatic change is possible is during infancy and at old age

Bread is made of grains. Legumes are included in grains.
I will restraint to call you a retard because its too easy at this point.

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"In contrast to the infant gut, the adult gut microbiome is resilient to large shifts in community structure. Several studies have shown that dietary changes induce transient fluctuations in the adult microbiome, sometimes in as little as 24 h; however, the microbial community rapidly returns to its stable state. Current knowledge of how long-term dietary habits shape the gut microbiome is limited by the lack of long-term feeding studies coupled with temporal gut microbiota characterization. However, long-term weight loss studies have been shown to alter the ratio of the Bacteroidetes and Firmicutes, the two major bacterial phyla residing in the human gastrointestinal tract."

frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2014.00494/full

If life gives you melons, you might be dyslexic

So a dyslexic man walks into a bra

Post pussy

2753 individual rice

>pasta bad

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>If you just want to lose fat as priority you`re best move is to cut out carbs
In an isonitrogenous comparison of high-fat and high-carb diets, subjects on a high-carb diet retain greater amounts of lean body mass
>Inb4 muh water retention
Subjects were on the diet for enough time to flush glycogen stores before measuring.

Yes. Look at Alan Aragon's research.

Pasta is worst than potatoes/rice since it is more complex or whatever. You want carbs for fast energy, so no point in slower digested carbs.

>we are made to eat mostly legumes and roots
That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Roots, maybe, but not legumes. Humans are made to mostly eat fruits and meat and sometimes roots in a pinch. Legumes would take too much prep to be a natural part of the human diet. Not that they don't have a place in a modern diet but we aren't "made to eat them"

>You won't gain a single pound of lean muscle mass without carbs.

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Dr Gabrielle Fundaro is one of the leading experts on this, and she's okay with them in small amounts

Carbs cause CANCER.

Are you a cat?

What

>infact the microbiome is relatively stable at adult stages
no they're not, they change in accordance to what you eat recently, literally changing their com position and ratios in order to favour the trace ammounts of nutrients leaking through the small intestine towards the colon, be it fiber or amino acids or fatty acids, doesn't matter.

what do you mean?
has alan aragon found any thing that shows conclusively that keto diets are inferior for muscle growth?

your blood sugar is stable regardless of what you eat, glucose is a carb, do carbs cause cancer? or do carbs feed energy to cells(meaning all of them)?
the answer is the latter, carbs cause cancer just like carbs give you life and energy.

God damn we got some badass intellectual prodigy right here

Human shares about 70% dna with a tree. So now we'll all grow a root system to feed ourselves?

You debil motherfucker.

Post body

complex is better. don't cut them out of your diet

You're the retard here. When he said grains everyone knew he was talking about bread and then you decide to limp it in with

>akkkkkkchually

Go back to 8th grade with your splitting hairs bullshit

>In an isonitrogenous comparison of high-fat and high-carb diets, subjects on a high-carb diet retain greater amounts of lean body mass
No they don't

IDK what the deal is but they always make me feel like shit
Eat less of them I guess?

Yeah, as a former obese person who graduated to skinnyfat and could never graduate to somewhat-in-shape without carbs, I agree, carbs are GOAT.

>Pasta
>Good
*Barks*

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This is the kind of person who gives advice on fit.
Dear Lord you are pathetic

yes they do
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1396128/
>Recent availability of intravenous onions bean oil emulsion for clinical trials in the United States prompted infusion of intravenous diets containing a constant nitrogen level (11.7 grams/m2/day) and 13 different combinations of carbohydrate (110-2300 kcal/m2/day) and fat (0-1100 kcal/m2/day) during 34 three-day studies in 5 patients who were clinically stable after injury or operation. Urea nitrogen excretion was inversely related to carbohydrate intake (P less than 0.01) and directly related to resting metabolic rate (P less than 0.01). Fat infusion did not affect nitrogen excretion at any level of carbohydrate intake. This study suggests that, when a primary clinical goal is nitrogen conservation, carbohydrate calories should be given in amounts approximating the resting metabolic rate. Additional calories and essential fatty acids now can be safely given as intravenous fat emulsion, but fat did not affect nitrogen conservation under the conditions of this study.

in other words, carbs make up for lower protein intakes and lower amino acid oxidation for mere energy, but fats do not and li teral ly do not improve protein balance in humans in any intake, only protein and carbs do.

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Most people on the street would agree I'm in pretty good shape, but yeah, I'm pathetic for not being an Instagram fitness model after being morbidly obese for most of my life, okay.

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>I'm pathetic for not being an Instagram fitness model
What are you a woman?
The amount of cope from this carb addict is hilarious.
Stop being a skinnyfat you dyel.

>bushes
Based hunter-gatherer

From the same book:
"CARBOHYDRATES
These should comprise the entire rest of the diet. Once protein and fat
minimums have been met, carbohydrates round out the meals, as they
are an outstanding energy source, and highly protein sparing, there is
simply no reason to avoid them or restrict their intake. Carbohydrates =
performance, plain and simple. Please note, this can be quite a high level of
carbohydrates. Let’s take a 220 pound individual training for a marathon,
logging 40 miles per week, plus 4 hours in the weight room with a baseline
intake of 3600 calories a day. Activity burns about ~5700 additional
calories per week from the running and ~1200-1300 from the lifting, plus
10%, which makes this around 33,000 calories per week, or 4700 per
day. With protein at 125g per day (mandated), and fats at 52g minimum,
this leaves around 900 grams of carbohydrates per day. This is an awe-
inspiring number for many gym rats who may be used to carbohydrate
intake in the 200-350g range. Bear in mind, however, these are also
the individuals who complain that running causes them to lose size and
strength, and still struggle to complete their target distances (the author
was a prime example when training for his first marathon).

I'm not skinnyfat tho. I'm just saying I used to be and couldn't escape that until I ditched the keto/low-carb paradigm.

"more complex or whatever"
You have no idea what you are talking about, fucking idiot.

>intravenous
Not the same metabolic pathway as eating.

ok
archive.unu.edu/unupress/food2/UID07E/UID07E0H.HTM#5. the role of glucose and lipid in nitrogen sparing
>It is well established that protein metabolism is highly sensitive to energy intake. The estimated minimum requirement for dietary protein is influenced by the level of energy intake (INOUE, FUJITA and NIIYAMA, 1973). Dietary carbohydrate and fat provide the major sources of energy for support of body protein metabolism. According to the classical studies of MUNRO (1964), administration of carbohydrate has a protein-sparing effect in the fasting subject, whereas fat does not have this effect. Isocaloric substitution of fat for carbohydrate results in a transient increase in N output (MUNRO, 1964). These studies, however, have been carried out at intakes of protein that exceed those considered to be sufficient for maintenance of N balance. Therefore it is of interest to know what is the best ratio of carbohydrate/fat calories for the utilization of dietary protein in healthy young men given a protein intake that corresponds to the minimum requirements for achieving N balance.
>RICHARDSON et al. (1979) compared the effect of two maintenance diets on protein utilization in healthy young men; the first diet supplied an equal proportion of energy from carbohydrate (47%) and from fat (47%) with 6% energy from milk protein. The second diet supplied twice as much energy from carbohydrate (62%) as from fat (31%), with the same protein content. Nitrogen balance and dietary protein utilization were improved on the high-carbohydrate diet as compared to the diet with a ratio of carbohydrate to fat of 1/1. The protein-sparing action of dietary carbohydrate is probably mediated in part by increased insulin secretion, since the release of insulin is less stimulated by dietary fat than carbohydrate. There is substantial evidence that insulin inhibits muscle proteolysis (JEFFERSON, LI and RANNELS, 1977).

Same here, my sleep has been so much better with HIIT and lifting heavy

The danger of carbs has been inflated vastly in the last decade, the reason why people say you should "avoid" carbs is that they're relatively calorie-dense compared to how much they actually fill you up. If are a 300 pound female looking to lose some weight, cutting out carbs is fine. But, it's pretty essential for any male who wants to gain muscle or at least have a good amount of energy for strength training.

No, carbs have higher satiety than fat in actual scientific investigations.

Try 500 calories of refined sugar vs. refined oil and it will be obvious, more obvious than anything else in the world, that the sugar is more satiating

good luck getting fat on boiled potatos

I'd have a much harder time downing a bottle of vegetable oil than downing a 2 liter of soda