The great debate

Post body

I always LMAO at this threads. Are you really implying that people didn't become strong before SS, SL, Greyskull and other modern dog shit? Look at books like "THE Complete Keys to Progress", "Powerlifting Basics Texas Style", programs like 20 rep squats, Tommy Kono's beginner routine, Arnold Golden 6. Beginners did fullbody workouts with 2-3x8-15 set/rep scheme, they also often trained OHP in the same session with bench press, did curls, did additional shoulder exercises like upright rows and all this in the same session. Forget about SS nonsense.

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This post reminds me of a guy who can't squat 2 plates and thinks it's an accomplishment to be able to

check out the boom on this boomer

Why is that?

Beginners are always too weak to overtrain, they should do SS/5x5 5 or 6 days a week, instead of pearl-clutching over maladies almost impossible for them to achieve.

i don't think beginners can do power cleans without proper coaching. it's a difficult lift on a technical level. rows are much easier to perform imo.
in any case, i don't recommend either of those workouts to my beginner friends because while they may be very efficient and will optimize your strength gains, most people don't go into lifting to lift fuck-huge numbers. also, it's rather boring/unpleasant to do as a routine so they'll just end up ditching the gym altogether.
i tend to recommend PPL instead.

I've tried both, SS's lower workset volume lets you put more weight on the bar and progress quicker

t. backlet

Getting strong will make you look good retard. The reason why SS works for beginners is because every time you work out you have guaranteed progress which is important to people with questionable motivation

>do 5x5 3x a week
>stall because too much volume, gain nothing, have to move to 3x5 anyway
reminder mehdi is an utter retard who slipped a disc 1rming a lmao4plate squat

SS is better. Although power cleans are a meme.

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>have to move to 3x5 anyway
Do you know that this is how periodization works? You do more volume in the beginning and less in the end.
>inb4 but beginners don't need periodization!
Post body.

>no pull-ups
>no dips

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Do you have any evidence that 5x5 is better than 3x5 for novice strength progression?

Nobody:

Literally nobody:

Not a single soul:

Not even a single sole:

Not even a single shoe lace:

Not even reddit:

Not even anyone in the whole universe:

Not even anyone in the solar system:

Not even anyone in the Milky Way:

Not even anyone in the snickers bar lol:

Jow Forums: SS and SL are both good beginner programs.

hahaha, that's a heart and follow from me.
I'll make sure to retweet this!

>doing 5x5 for an undetermined amount of time until you stall and then moving on to 3x5, as a novice, is periodization!

epic

Not an argument and still haven’t posted your dyel body.

>varying intensity and volume isn't periodization
I know you want to look smart, but you must try harder

strength & aesthetics are so far apart its insane someone would write this. the reason why SS works is because they are a beginner and they are doing ANYTHING lol
and since u just need to get beginners to do anything, SS is a shit program because no beginner wants to do the power cleans - which keeps them from starting to lift.

kek

Not an argument: no beginner is anywhere near attempting actual weights that matter

>SS is a shit program because no beginner wants to do the power cleans

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>SS is garbage because

ncice epic mem image

Strength allows you to lift heavy, lifting heavy will build muscle

>ncice epic mem image

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lifting with an emphasis on getting a high weekly volume will build more muscle than focusing on high intensity

>strength & aesthetics are so far apart its insane someone would write this
This is literally the stupidest thing I've ever read on this piece of shit website

that's sad because it's literally the truth

5 reps will do both

It is literally not and your a dipshit for thinking it

HAHAHAHA FUNNY MEME BRO
What's your gamertag??? Let's pwn some n00bs in Fortnite xDD
Upvoted btw, if I weren't a jobless piece of shit I would give you gold :DD

As a 165 lb male whos been training consistently for about 4 months, how much should I be able to do on the three big compound lifts?

>power cleans for a beginner who struggles to lift the bar

3x5 is not a lot of volume, 5x5 is better though. not that it really matters for beginner i guess

4/3/2pl8s

On OHP/Bench/Squat, to be clear.

I got gold one time for a popular comment and all it is is it allows you to go to this special subreddit and everyone just posts and talks about gold. Like it has the cartoon duck swimming in the pool of gold coins. Not that great really. But thanks.

Humorous

Deadlift/Squat/Bench x 5

My current stats are BW Bench, 255 DL, and 275 Squat

oh no no no

I was the 165 lb beginner male btw

OH NO NO NO

why is your deadlift shit

Ive deadlifted maybe like once a month since I started, and only did squats for lower body

lol

Why?

Are you doing a program?

SS has been a good program for me in my 1st year. Cannot do the cleans though, poor gym equipment

SS but squat, bench and press 5x5, dl 3x5 or 5x3, power cleans are good at 5x3.

Can you expand on that?

GO BACK
POST BODY
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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but it's not their end goal

I fucked up my back with 4pl8 squats, what's wrong with that?

Your thread was garbage and every user in it told you how big of a faggot you are yet you still decided to post this shit again
Kill yourself

TO LOOK LIKE AN ATHLETE, YOU HAVE TO SLEEP LIKE AN ATHLETE.

Jeff is honestly so cute and innocent
I love his vids alot

My dads side has genetic lower back problems, and the deadlift seemed kind of daunting at first. Plus, Ive always had good leg strength, so squats seemed natural
No, basically just do one or two big compound lifts at the beginning for a reverse pyramid of 10 8 6 and then just do a bunch of auxilliary. I want to do SS but I dont have a gym buddy to spot me.

TOO LOOK LIKE AN ATHLETE YOU HAVE TO SLEEP LIKE AN ATHLETE

Based

Starting strength has some actual progression when things get tougher besides just drop to 3x5.

You think those tricep pushdowns actually do anything for a beginner?

Straight from "if I don't have enough volume I won't look like Arnold in 4 months," reddit.

post body and lifts

I'm a DYEL and I'll just do 5/3/1 for beginners because I haven't seen anybody sperg out against it, and it's cool with variety

annaaay tips? I know I have to read the 2nd edition, will do

How can you teach yourself powercleans? Catching the bar on my chest seems scary.

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You don't catch it on the chest, catch it on the shoulders

> read programme
> do programme

TOO LOOK LIKE AN ATHLETE YOU HAVE TO SLEEP LIKE AN ATHLETE

>5x5 squats and deadlifts after
Hmmm.

>SS workout A
>7 total sets

I get it's a beginner program but isnt that such small volume? Wouldn't your workout be 40 mins tops

the rest times become longer and it doesn't account for warmups, but yeah the volume is a little too low

the internet is vast faggot. Go watch some instructional videos, try it with the bar, post a video of you doing it, and ask for advice. It's not like martial arts; you can learn this on your own.

I stopped doing SS because I felt a bit shameful, I just went to my commercial gym, yoinked the squat rack (nobody else used it anyway) and went away quite early. I felt like most people would think I'm doing nothing. Autistic I know.

both are inferior to 531 beginner

If you progress correctly your rest should be at least 5 minutes after each set, so no.

GZCLP

Kek good one.

Updooted!

Both are garbage. If you want some minimalist "strength only" routine for noobs do Strongest Shall Survive. If you want to actually look good while getting stronger, do literally any balanced routine with some volume and appropriate accessories.

Stronglifts is retarded and way too hard
5 sets of fucking 5 reps on squa ts 3x a waeek with linear progression? fuck that
Starting s trength is unironically way better if you replace the power cleans with pullups

>this is what SS/SL tards think

No. If you need 5 fucking minutes to recoup after a set you have zero work capacity. These programs teach people from the beginning that weight is literally the only acute training variable that matters and should be sought after at the cost of all other aspects of fitness. It's retarded.

>Starting s trength is unironically way better if you replace the power cleans with pullups
>take out the only movement that hits the upper back at all and replace it with the only movement that hits the lats

volume is overrated

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Starting strength has the best poster boy for their program, that lard ass zach evetts.

That’s the result you get from GOMAD and following an obese coach who only knows how to make people hate themselves in the mirror.

>power cleans
>in any way hitting the upper back to any meaningful degree
yikes

pullups hit the lats, mid traps, biceps, brachialis long head of the tricep, abs, rhomboids, posterior delts
power cleans hit the spinal erectors, that's it backwise, and those are hit already plenty on squats and deads, reason why cleans are fucking useless and should be replaced b y an upper body pull like pullups

rows are terrible too, too easy to cheat on and cause back discomfort in a lot of people, they also barely use the upper arms, pullups mog rows arm wise and SS needs less torso and lower body focus and more upper body focus, this is where pullups come in

I'm not arguing that pullups aren't the shit.

I'm arguing that taking out power cleans, which absolutely do rape the mid/upper back, and replacing them with pullups (which both these dumpster ass programs need) doesn't fix the program.

Everyday a beginner to the gym will ask what program he should do. Jow Forums will usually respond with either Starting Strength or Stronglifts and order them to eat a lot.
A few months will pass and the beginner have stalled and is confused with why he’s not gaining any muscle despite putting so much weight on the bar.

They say he should stick with the program, get a lot of sleep and eat even more food and not to switch programs unless he’s reached “intermediate” lifts or 1/2/3/4. The beginner sticks with it and runs it, while making very little progress.

Here is where the problem actually lays: Starting Strength and Stronglifts does not actually build muscle, both of these programs are based(ripoff) on Bill Starr’s 5×5 that was made for off-season football players that wanted to get their numbers back up in the weight room with as little work as possible.
That is also the case as a beginner. With these programs you’re not actually getting stronger, just adapting to the training, becoming more efficient at moving the bar and getting the central nervous system to handle the work load.

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