Calorie surplus is a myth

What the fuck is wrong with you?

I'm talking facts:

Only three days of dieting already reduce basal MPS (Areta, 2014). This shows that an energy deficit is suboptimal for MPS, however you can grow muscle mass while losing fat (Longland, 2016). It is unclear if eating above maintenance is needed to optimize MPS.

nutritiontactics.com/measure-muscle-protein-synthesis/

You have a very active imagination to be continuously debating statements that were never made. If it gets worse consider consulting a psychiatrist. You may also consider reading each sentence of my post clearly and without interpretations, and then pointing out any factual errors that were made. You are rambling like a drunk hobo on the sidewalk, it's embarrassing.

>It is unclear if eating above maintenance is needed to optimize MPS.
A net energy gain to the body requires a calorie (energy) surplus due to thermodynamics.

>don’t do what’s been proven to work!
>instead, do it in a shittier way!

Weight gain does not = muscle protein synthesis.

>look dawg come back to us when you do 1-2 hour lifting with accessory work. Ya only need need protein shakes for that no carbs or fat xD
No where did it say that, brainlet. You can get all of that without going over your TDEE

Jow Forums is probably in the 1st quartile of IQ across Jow Forums and 4channel

"The researchers divided their subjects into two groups. Both groups went on a low calorie diet, one with higher levels of protein than the other. The higher-protein group experienced muscle gains -- about 2.5 pounds -- despite consuming insufficient energy, while the lower protein group did not add muscle.

The lower-protein group at least had the consolation of not losing muscle, which is a predictable outcome of cutting calories and not working out, say researchers."

sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/01/160127132741.htm

What a stupid post.

enjoy burning out, suboptimal performance and gains.

Why do worlds strongest men eat so much and carry excess body fat.
Because for maximal muscle gain and strength you need a calorie surplus which spills over into fat gain
Look at all the heavyweights in power lifting and olympic lifting. They carry excess body fat due to the overfeeding required to maximize peak strength and muscle.

If you don't want maximal muscle gains then you probably don't need much if any calorie surplus.

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To be on positive nitrogen balance you have to eat more on top of the required protein to sustain and repair muscle tissue and stimulate protein synthesis.
Don't need 1000kcal over your TDEE daily though.

this is true, its just easier to make quick gains when you eat lots of carbs on top of your protein

He has a PhD
PechighlyDefined

>maximal muscle gain and strength you need a calorie surplus which spills over into fat gain

This is severely conflated. Those people are using compounds which modify their metabolic processes where they gain an advantage from constantly stimulating insulin for muscle growth. It doesn't have anything to do with energy systems. Even the Olympia body builders do this to get their crazy physiques, its also the likely explanation for the bubble gut phenomenon.

If a normal human did carb loading, the super majority of their gains would just be fat. Normal humans within an absolute optimization can only put on 1.5lbs of lean muscle mass a month.

>If you don't want maximal muscle gains then you probably don't need much if any calorie surplus.

The Golden Era body builders were all high protein, very low carb and those guys didn't bother with cardio. As long as nitrogen balance is in excess of whats needed for growth or energy, muscle will grow. Arguably you don't even need to be in a caloric deficit as protein is itself thermogenic and quite satiating on appetite.

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They want maximum strenght, you need high energy for that so alot of food
Op was talking about building muscle

>If a normal human did carb loading, the super majority of their gains would just be fat. Normal humans within an absolute optimization can only put on 1.5lbs of lean muscle mass a month.
This is correct but carbs aren't easily stored as body fat and a slight surplus can have an anabolic effect. Insulin doesn't cause body fat storage its a retard take. You do realize that protein can be more insulinogenic than carby foods right?

>announcing a sage
>calls others retarded
Weeeeew

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It's true. Even many studies ignore that that supposed needed "surplus" can come from... you guessed it, fat. That's why bulking/cutting is a meme unless you are on roids or close to your genetic limit.

This was done with only overweight guys who were made to work out 6 days a week
This probably doesnt apply to most people on Jow Forums

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Wait, are they certain they ONLY gained 2.5 pounds of muscle? Was it for the month?

What's the routine? Is it lifting + cardio 6 days/week? Is it just one routine?
>high-protein
It sounds like a euphemism for keto tho

>Jeff Cavaliere
>PhD
quote from his own website
>Jeff received his Masters Degree in Physical Therapy and Bachelor of Science in Physioneurobiology / Premedicine from the University of Connecticut in Storrs, CT (one of the top 5 universities in the country in physical therapy and sports medicine).

>The Golden Era body builders were all high protein, very low carb and those guys didn't bother with cardio

False. Nubert is the only one to say he didn't do cardio but all of the others ran extra miles to cut weight when they felt like they needed to.

Attached: the chad feast.webm (1000x562, 2.93M)

>carbs aren't easily stored as body fat

Its impossible for a natty to burn all the carbs in one go, not unless they plan to run a marathon right after every single meal.

>anabolic effect

Insulin is anabolic yes

>Insulin doesn't cause body fat storage its a retard take.

It does because it down regulates gluconeogenesis(metabolic pathway for burning fat) in natties, where again its impossible to burn all the carbs from a single sitting. Most of it is stored as fat. The Golden Era guys knew that back in the 70s, which is why they only had one cheat day in the week for carbs. This atop of the fact that modern drugs increase the basal metabolic rate, thermogenesis. Quite of few documentaries of modern body builders, they always complain about being to hot to sleep, waking in pools of sweat.

>You do realize that protein can be more insulinogenic than carby foods right?

This is more nuanced but generally false, especially as a comparative of equivalent meals or in periodicity. Protein does cause a moderate response in insulin, however animal meat has the amino acid Alanine which suppresses blood sugar and thus insulin response. You'd have to eat a ton of meat in a single sitting to get an equivalent rise of blood sugar/insulin to regular carbohydrate meals.

The only raw foods that are under meat in insulin response and high protein are low carb nuts, seeds, etc, and that does not digest well in the same quantity as consumed meat. There's not really a comparative here, meat is just flat out better. Its especially true if consumed in periodicity like OMAD(one meal a day) as was practiced by Golden Era body builder Serge Nubret.

Real Facts on Serge Nubret’s Diet
sergenubretforever.com/serge-nubrets-diet/

Again natties can only put on 1.5 lbs of muscle a month, the rest will just be fat. High protein low carb diet reduces the supply of energy for those excess energy stores(fat). Unless you're using anabolic compounds to compensate.

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>Its impossible for a natty to burn all the carbs in one go
That's not relevant to what I'm talking about which is that when you carb load people 97% of the fat they store is from fat and only 3% is split between carbs and protein. De novo lipogenesis is not a significant source of bodyweight. If anything fat is more fattening since its the lowest of the three macro's when it comes to thermic effect of eating.

>It does because it down regulates gluconeogenesis(metabolic pathway for burning fat) in natties, where again its impossible to burn all the carbs from a single sitting. Most of it is stored as fat. The Golden Era guys knew that back in the 70s, which is why they only had one cheat day in the week for carbs. This atop of the fact that modern drugs increase the basal metabolic rate, thermogenesis. Quite of few documentaries of modern body builders, they always complain about being to hot to sleep, waking in pools of sweat.
The half life of insulin is like 5 minutes. We don't spend our lives with elevated insulin levels, most people have periods where they are fasting due to sleep. The reason this is a retard take is because you're looking at one hormone instead of all the hormones which effect fat storage over a 24 hour period. When you do this insulin doesn't cause fat storage and this is also why in carefully controlled weight loss studies low carb diets typically perform no better long term than low fat diets.

>This is more nuanced but generally false, especially as a comparative of equivalent meals or in periodicity. Protein does cause a moderate response in insulin, however animal meat has the amino acid Alanine which suppresses blood sugar and thus insulin response. You'd have to eat a ton of meat in a single sitting to get an equivalent rise of blood sugar/insulin to regular carbohydrate meals.
You wouldn't have to eat a ton of meat in a single sitting to do this,. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20060863

In that study you can see the insulin response in the Low carb high protein meal was higher than the carb and protein meal despite blood sugar being higher in the carb plus protein meal. There has never been a study which showed carbs causing fat loss once you control for calorie and protein intake. It's a bunk theory which only a few researchers actually buy.

Here's another which compared effects of four protein with Whey protein stimulating it the most and in all cases it insulin peaks 30 mins after the meal. Amino acids can directly stimulate insulin production without having to be converted into glucose first so if you are going to follow you're own retarded advice stop eating high protein and just put olive oil on everything

Id like to see research on trained (as in, not dyels under the newbie gain period) people making progress without a surplus. I have personally experienced on numerous occasions the breaking of long strength plateaus simply by eating more. When I cut, I always lose a (minor) amount of strength, when I'm at maintenance progress is snail's pace, and when I bulk (responsibly) I get stronger. My body is very much responsive to how many calories I eat

bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/muscle-gain-math.html/

You are talking about body recomposition which is known for quite a while. This isn't new. You can build muscle by just eating at maintenance or even lower as long as your body has somewhere to get the extra energy (body fat). The caloric surplus is only necessary if you are building new muscle and have nowhere to get the energy.

t. Fat boy doing body recomposition for months.