How mad are atheists gonna be when they find out there is an after life?

If I die and go to heaven, great. I was wrong, I'll admit it. Whatever. It'd be a great thing to be wrong about; I wish Heaven were real, as it'd simplify and soften a lot of complex and scary existential questions.

If I die and go to hell, though? I wouldn't be happy of course, but I would feel vindicated in a sense, despite being wrong. No god that would condemn me to eternal suffering is deserving of worship. I may not live an ideal or devout life, but that doesn't mean I should be in hell forever. What would other sapient entities, be they gods or something else, subject me to that? It just seems pointlessly cruel, and I don't want to play by the rules of beings that are pointlessly cruel.

How mad are larper christians gonna be when they find out god wasn't pleased with their shitty conduct.

It's more like Buddha or god or the universe wants you to exemplify the divine. All good things in life are the divine in material or corporeal form.

I try to live a virtuous life. If God is just, I will go to heaven. If God is unjust, I do not want to go to heaven. Checkmate gay theists.

You die and are reborn. It's cause and effect. Your new life is based on previous conditions. Your consciousness continues in some way- it is a cause, and all causes have an effect.

Oh wait, somebody else posted it. nvm.

I would be pretty mad. I want to die and just remain dead, like every other living thing to have ever existed in the universe. I find the idea of an afterlife to be laughable and the people who think they're so special that they get to respawn when the die to be disgustingly narcissistic. The invisible sky wizard just waves his magical wand and bends the laws of the universe just for you, right?

The universe wants you to live a good life because it's good. You'll be happier, and the universe loves you and wants that for you.

How mad will you be when you realise you worshipped the wrong god and go to hell?

How mad are you going to be when you go to hell for being a hypocrite?

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Please locate the seat of conciousness (is it your brain alone? Chemicals in the brain? The body and the brain? Can it exist in a vacuum, with nothing to respond to, or is all life interconnected?) and then explain what happens to your consciousness after you die.

This is utter bullshit. I get fucked at every coin-toss situation there is, even with no outside influence.

Wtf are you talking about? The universe is incredibly hostile to the point where you die in seconds in 99.999...% of it. It hates you and wants you dead.

what if im a masochist who likes to be tortured :3

I dont think they would be mad in limbo, they all get to enlighten themselves collectively with their intelligence

Your consciousness is a by-product of the electrochemical interactions found in your brain. When your brain decomposes there are no more of those impulses and therefore no more consciousness. What exactly do you think consciousness is that makes it so special that it somehow transcends the decomposition of the thing that allows it to exist?

The most impressive thing about believe in an afterlife to me is the idea that we get there for being good. If you have to go be good to get to heaven literally fucking nobody is there lol. Why not just say bad people can go to heaven if you're bad people? Whoa what if the idea of heaven is really about believing that we are good people?

No,it wants to help you stop being a pussy.

Then why does observation affect outcome user?

What if the idea of heaven is to trick uneducated peasants from 1800 years ago into behaving while under the rule of an oppressive empire?

There isn't one so not at all.

What does an observed phenomena from the quantum scale have to do with biochemistry on the scale of biological life? Also how does it change anything? Also the universe is deterministic so that feels like a total non sequitur.

You are still alive. The universe, your guardian angel, say, tries to help you every day, but you are too sad angry attached egoistic human to hear it/ listen. Your angel is frighteningly powerful and could just force you to be happy (it loves you like a perfect all-loving mother loves her child, but without attachment) but if you ever saw it in its full glory you would go a little mad or become depressed because you can't live in the angel/buddha heaven right now, as you are. So your angel shows incredible restraint and just suggests the good or happiness producing course of action. But you don't listen.

This is a big fear of mine, because if God does exist then he's probably really fucking evil. I'm an atheist but even if God does exist i wouldn't worship him. Fuck you God!

Observation and measurement is interaction. When you put a thermometer into a liquid of unknown temperature, the thermometer has an effect on the temperature by going into equilibrium with it. When we do a double slit experiment and place detectors at the slit to measure which slit a photon passed through, we are not merely innocently becoming aware of what is happening as if we were incorporeal ghosts observing from above, but our act of measuring itself has a physical impact on the outcome. It's not merely our awareness.

If observation affect outcome, consciousness affects reality, doesn't it? Even if it's not on a relevant manner.
I'm just asking user, if consciousness is only an interaction of manner that has an effect in the determination of manner, it would be possible for matter to define itself, and a bigger more powerful interaction of matter could probably determine more of reality.
Could that consciousness be refered as God?

>takes a step outside of the exosphere
>instant death
>goes to a certain island in Brazil
>gets bitten
>quick death
>goes to bad neighborhood in a 3rd world shithole at night
>gets kidnapped
You are naive if you believe that, we are a species that miraculously made it this far. The universe, while amazing is not a daycare center for humans awaiting an afterlife (that has seemingly no purpose other than prolonging our existence)

So many fedoras. Atheists go to hell.

Are the five senses not part of consciousness, then?

Yeah, you may be right user. maybe that's all there it's to it lol. it's not like faster than light information travel between atoms is impossible lol.
I mean why else would the subatomic particles behave that way? obviously they communicate faster than light

>stepping outside exosphere for a quick jaunt
>getting bitten in Brazil
Shit that never happened. Your life is pretty safe. Anyways, no one said life is easy. You are as a babby compared to your angel.

Consciousness is effectively a sense of self and awareness created by your brain interpreting reality through the sensory data it collects. It functions within the laws of the universe and is still governed by the laws of thermodynamics no matter how special it seems to the person who has it. Really, I would consider the idea of free will a survival strategy. But paradoxically it leads people to believe they are so special that death no longer applies to them. But I digress, the idea of consciousness existing after death violates the law of thermodynamics, you can't have a thing like thought and consciousness existing after the thing that provides it with the energy it needs to exist dies.

If a mature conciousness is shaped by interacting with the world, is the world not a part somehow of consciousness?

>Yeah, you may be right user. maybe that's all there it's to it lol. it's not like faster than light information travel between atoms is impossible lol.
>I mean why else would the subatomic particles behave that way? obviously they communicate faster than light
You're going to have to nut up and actually make claims instead of doing this broad implying bullshit. Are you saying quantum entanglement proves we're forcing the outcomes of double slit experiments?
If we had robots with no conscious awareness perform the double slit experiment, the results of the readings on the back wall detectors would be exactly the same. The interaction of our instruments cause the results, not our mind itself. Our awareness of which slit the particle went through is just an obvious, irrelevant correlation due to scientists always being the one who run experiments.

Mi amigo! Vine por Dross!

...no. What does that even mean? Consciousness is brain + neurotransmitters, it exists entirely within your head. Everything outside of the head is a seperate entity. It can affect how you think, it is not a part of you though.

I beleive that there is an afterlife of some kind..but I don't think it is ruled by an omnipresent deity.

I am not sure if god's real or not and wouldn't even bet against it but your death is unarguably the ceasing of all senses and nothing happens for your consciousness after that
I hate people who are extroverted about their fetishes and would rather people didn't have such fucked up sexual desires at all. Most Christians are degenerates too but they pretend not to be, at least fedora lords are just being honest.

I agree with you on this, I'm just saying that even if your consciousness can dissipate, "god" ,as in an almighty being (absolute power over matter) can exist.
Allright user, get me that study of robots measuring the double slit experiment and proving quantum entanglement. I'll wait.

The brain can't exist without food or air, for instance. At what point does the food you eat, or Oxygen, become part of your consciousness?

I'll make sure to get on asking scientists to re-do experiments with minor variations using tax payer money in order to refute every retarded new age interpretation of QM.

>Everything outside of the head is a seperate entity.
With that attitude you'll asphyxiate or dehydrate pretty quick. How does water become part of the brain and therefore conciousness in your quaint little world?

I imagine most of them would be quite happy. Most atheists don't want there to not be a god, they just don't believe there is one.

When it's broken down into small molecules, absorbed into the blood and transferred to the brain. I don't understand why that holds any significance to you. Everything being made of the same 3 building blocks and existing in the same system doesn't make them a part of your ego.

>they still win in the end
You're implying the afterlife is free entry for all. Spending your entire life shitting on theists, the afterlife and the concept of a deity generally wouldn't earn you any favours there.

whats it like to be rarted

Oh, come on. You know what I mean. I'm responding to someone suggesting that grass is a part of your ego.

Everyone who uses Jow Forums is going to hell by default if Christianity or Islam is correct so there's no point gloating

I have a book that says spiderman is real, so I'm pretty sure I'm going to the spiderverse when I die.

Actually you go to the DC universe

Water from outside your brain becomes an actual part of your brain, which you equate with your ego. I see, the water molecules magically become something different once they're inside you. You say the ego ceases when the brain ceases, because the thing that allowed conciousness to exist is gone, but if all water was gone, all egos would die, I guess you're saying, because the thing that allowed consciousness to exist (water) is gone. So water and air and food, like the brain, are the source of the ego because without them, conciousness can't exist?

Not mad at all, since not existing must be the worst fate of them all. I'd probably go to hell rather than not existing. That thought is just horrifying. Also, I'll get to tell god to go fuck himself for all the suffering he put humankind through.

Clearly you know what you are doing when you can't easily disprove a false belief. Based.

They would be more mad when you when you find out that there isnt.

Most gods are assholes, and the ones that aren't don't care if you worship them

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The double slit experiment didn't prove quantum consciousness you dimwit. An observer can be literally anything that interacts with a particle or photon, it doesn't have to conscious. Fuck off with your tard tier QM understanding and come back when you've actually done a physics degree

The cornerstone of intellectual discourse is to favourably interpret your conversational partner's words. Going out of your way to be intentionally obtuse in your interpretation in such a way as to insult the intelligence of the person you are talking to is dishonest and obnoxious.

>I-I give up!

Water allows consciousness to exist. You mistake whatever allows consciousness to exist (the brain alone in your interpretation) for consciousness itself. I'm not making fun of you, I just have a broader interpretation of what consciousness is. By your own argument, lots of things outside the brain are necessary for consciousness to exist, and are therefore part of conciousness. There is no brain or conciousness without space or gravity or time, for instance.

You're an intellectually dishonest hack. If that's a victory for you, then good for you. It's like having a conversation about combustion engines with a mechanical engineer and responding with " I know you are but what am I?" Over and over again and shouting I win after they walk away. Congratulations, you win nothing, because this wasn't a debate or a contest.

You mistake your thoughts for consciousness, so you think the brain exists independently.

>At what point does the food you eat, or Oxygen, become part of your consciousness?
It doesn't. They never become conscious or a part or it, just integral to it.

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The living world rewards people with predatory mindset. I doubt the afterlife if there was one would be any better place. I would sooner believe that AI would change the paradigm of human society for the better than believe heaven.

It's called Buddhism, buddy, look up dependant origination. I didn't make all this up to make fun of you, it's my deeply held belief. Just doing my job.

I'll likely go to hell. Kinda mad with myself, but i'd deserve it

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"Literally anything" hmmmm then why would the result change?

That's doubletalk, if you believe the brain = consciousness. If the brain is partly made of water, that came from somewhere, then that outside-sourced water is part of the brain and now part of consciousness in your philosophy.

So mad they will stick a banana up their butt in the afterlife.

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Does it make sense to believe that your "consciousness" can sprout up again over time? Like how one day you realised you were "you" when you were 2/3-years-old, can that happen again over hundreds or thousands of years? One day the shit that forms your mental being randomly crops up again inside a dog or some shit. You won't remember anything from past lives, but your perception of reality would be a warped version of what you have now?

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Because they interacted with the equipment differently. Nobody actually measured the particles directly, they used inanimate equipment to do it for them, You could be not in the room and the equipment would still record the results. It's the interaction that collapses the wave function, not the consciousness.

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HEROES IN A HAFL SHELL

TURTLE POWEr!

Also sight hearing taste smell and touch are pretty much necessary accessories for conciousness. Without them, why live? It isn't really possible to keep the brain alive without them, or without the help of some mad scientist who retains the senses.

The brain is likely conscious or is at least consciousness is largely an emergent property of it, but that's different from thinking that say an individual neuron is conscious, or that a water molecule in the brain is. Again, see

it's the structure of ur brain that's ur consciousness
the way the synapses are, the parts, the microscopic structure that makes you YOU, the memory etc.

not the literal water - the chemicals are the building blocks, but the YOU part is the structure
>emergent
i hate that term, just makes it sound so mystical

Consciousness is not just your thoughts. Your thoughts arise out of a kind of emptiness- the space between your thoughts, is one way to think of it, and that emptiness "pervades" and "is the basis for" all space, matter, and time, so most certainly, this emptiness which is all consciousness and empty, will continue to "exist"after our piddly brains are no more.

The water is part of the structures. Without it all the neurons would collapse like empty hot water bottles. The water is YOU if you think the brain is YOU. Is the rest of the body not you, in your estimation? The brain controls the body how does it do that if they are not connected or in any way dependant on each other? The brain (YOU) does not exist a magic world where the brain exists and thinks and functions and builds it's structures all alone in a cork-lined cell.

If the brain = your thoughts, how does it have thoughts using language, which is learned?

by structure what i mean is the pattern, the system

in theory, you could use some other solvent like ammonia, the point is the structure and the functionality of the thing

Memories change over time. Which memories are YOU? The original memories or the ones the brain revises over time? Can memories exist outside of time?

actually by 'the memory' i meant the ability to remember
but i see ur point

there are people who are only able to remember a single day or so
all kinds of bizarre neurological conditions have been described

In theory then, the ammonia would be part of you then. Oxygen is so necessary to the processes of the brain, I think we can safely say it is part of its structure. How many parts can we remove from the brain and still call it a brain? Is a car still a car if the wheels are taken off? Or if all the car's parts, like cells were replaced with new cells? Is a zygote YOU?

I could call you intellectually dishonest is there was anything intellectual about you.

I don't mean anything spirtual or magical about it. I just mean properties of a system that aren't held by the constituents. So I consider the wetness of water to be an emergent property of water molecules, and it emerges because at room temperature the molecules aren't rigidly bonded but flow past each other.
But perhaps there's a better word for it. Let me know.
I just wish to avoid confusing system level properties for the system itself. For example, saying that consciousness IS the brain or that it IS a specific organization of matter puts an equal sign where an implication arrow will do. Sure, a given structure of matter may be uniquely mapped to a state of mind in a 1-to-1 manner, but it makes more sense to say that the mental state is caused by the structure and is therefore a property of it.

>How mad are atheists gonna be when they find out there is an after life?
How mad are theists gonna be when we're in a computer simulator and the whole universe from their perspective was hand crafted by man?

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The brain is caused by a lot of things, so the brain is therefore a property of those causes, by your logic, and by extension the mental state is also a property of many things oitside the brain, having been caused by them. Brains are born, not manufactured in a lab.

is it possible to create an AI capable of discussing what its brain actually is

how mad will godtards be when they finally accept everyone just rots in the ground and realize they followed the rules of idiots from 2000 years ago for no reason?

I wouldn't call the brain an emergent property because it's an object. If you called the "fleshy feel" of a brain an emergent property, I'd be all in.
But to punch back, if we want to consider consciousness equivalent to the brain, and the brain is pink, are we forced to consider consciousness to be pink? If consciousness literally is the organization of matter, and that organization is in a rounded shape with wrinkles, is our consciousness rounded with wrinkles? You seem to have to say that consciousness is an aspect of the system, not equivalent.

This emergent property can't exist irl without a cause however. If we separate an emergent property completely from its cause then we're talking about a magical world that doesn't exist except in imagination. If the property is absolutely separate from the cause then it should be able to exist without the cause. Boom. Afterlife.

Do you know the scientific explanation for a life after death? This is based on the principle of information conservation from quantum physics. Just as the principle of conservation of energy states that energy in the universe can not be destroyed, so does the principle of information conservation mean that information can not be destroyed. stephen hawking wrote a lot about information and black holes. the reference to life after death results from the fact that a person's consciousness represents information, and that information can not be destroyed by death. And since it is an essential feature of this information that you have an awareness of yourself, this awareness must also be preserved if the information is retained. The "soul" is therefore practically a quatenphysikalische necessity.

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