Should I drink raw milk?

You know what I mean, pretty much everything made popular since the baby boomers came around is pure shit for your body.

sounds based. disgusting but based.

>You know what I mean, pretty much everything made popular since the baby boomers came around is pure shit for your body.
Like what? Are you some fucking paleo nutter?

Don't listen to them OP, drinking raw milk is stupid. There's virtually no nutritional benefit, and the chance of infection is way higher vs pasteurised milk.

Also don't fall for the organic scam, it's no better for you or the environment.

No you sped, if you actually read the paper that stated that you'd see the patients had part of their intestines removed
It's not relevant

No you won't get sick.
Try it and see if you like it, I really enjoy it
It goes off quickly, but you can still drink it when it's "off" as it's lactofermentated just tastes a little sour

Countries like Croatia and Serbia actually sell raw milk in the supermarkets, it's just because of the nanny state we can't do it in UK/USA and wherever you are

organic isnt a scam. eating foods covered with poisons is harmful to your body. its common sense

>Muh nanny state
Keep reading the Daily Mail, cunt

>There's virtually no nutritional benefit
Wrong
>and the chance of infection is way higher vs pasteurised milk.
Be a responsible consumer and only buy from farmers who test regularly
>Also don't fall for the organic scam, it's no better for you or the environment.
Now I know you're American, Organic means something different here but yes it's generally a meme

You're really in the wrong place you know

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near christmast i will add some raw cream and nutmeg for delicious eggnog

>There is a reason why pasteurization is so wide-spread and it is illegal to sell raw milk in supermarkets
Yes. That reason is bigger companies wanting a legal wall to keep new companies out of the market. The excessive process required also removes nearly all flavor from the product, which furthers allow them to get away with crap.
If you're going to sell it fresh, you can use less excessive means, since it won't have to sit on a store for who knows how long before it gets bought, but bigger companies don't want to compete with that.
That's not to say you can just suck it right out of the tit, though, it does require treatment before it's safe, you just don't have to literally burn everything good right out of it in the process.

>like what
Just on top of my head:
>pretty much all sugary drinks
>fast food
>chips
>breakfast cereals
>adding a ton of refined sugar in literally anything
There's a reason these retards say shit like "Oh so you can't eat anything if you wanna be healthy", they can't even imagine eating a meal consisting of local meat, some vegetables, some potatoes and a glass of water/milk. They need their overly sugary sauces, their liter of diet coke, deep fried shit, icecream etc. at every meal.

>Also don't fall for the organic scam, it's no better for you or the environment.
You might as well say:
>killing off entire species of insects isn't bad for any ecosystem
Also I don't want to eat/drink literal poison if I can avoid it.

Besides the other dumb shit he said he's partly right about organic.
Depending on the definition Organic food can and does still use pesticides, the threshold is just different

boil it first

no

must be why westerners are taller, have higher testosterone (as actually measured), have longer lifespans than 90% of the rest of the world, have lowest rates of deficiencies and also are usually physically more robust and stronger than non westerners.

boiling milk destroys way more of its nutrition than pasteurization/UHT

>Wrong
post evidence
the only statistically significant difference in nutrition between raw and pasteurized milk is the vitamin C content which is terrible on both anyway so it doesn't matter.

What bout that 50%+ obesity rate?

Lol no, you're not going to drink it nor change your mind
Heating destroys most if not all vitamins, they add Vit A and D back to milk after pasteurisation. Proteins and enzymes denatured, bacteria killed off
Yes, I want the bacteria

What? Is this some kind of american thing to be afraid of milk?

I've been drinking raw milk since i was a child, everyone drink it raw in my country

If you actually knew what Ileostomy was you'd see that the reason why subjects who went through such a procedure were used

TRUE amino acid digestibility can only be truly measured by looking at the amino acid content of any given food and the net loss in the end of the small intestine after digestion.
Amino acids that are assimilated in the large intestine are NOT used for muscle protein synthesis but merely destroyed by the gut bacteria for energy, just like fiber.
This is why DIAAS(digestibility indispensible amino acid score) protein quality metric has been devised and is now becoming more and more relevant, and is recommended by the FAO since PDCAAS doesn't take into account amino acid losses in the large intestine and merely assumes that all of the amino acids that are not shat out after digestion are all absorbed for synthesis of muscle and non muscle proteins.
fao.org/ag/humannutrition/35978-02317b979a686a57aa4593304ffc17f06.pdf

Raw eggs are fucking garbage.

>I've been drinking raw milk since i was a child, everyone drink it raw in my country
Based Balkan-user

Japan and Singapore have the longest lifespan. Western lifespan is sort of shitty considering how rich we are.

Obesity rate is also extremely high.

Asian cultures with no culture of drinking milk seem to be thin.
Westerner are now 50% obese.

I think its the milk in everything.

Sunflower/Rapeseed/Other Seed oil is in almost everything
Lactose/milk is not

>Asian cultures with no culture of drinking milk seem to be thin.
It's literally a custom to drink milk after a hot bath in Japan

Its an American thing, my Mom said she drinks normal milk while I drink Raw "weird" milk, Americans are fucking idiots when it comes to nutrition which is why they're fat and pre-diabetic when they enter their 20's.

>There's virtually no nutritional benefit,
Wrong you fucking idiot, Grass-fed Raw milk from Jersey cows and Goats is one of the most nutritionally potent foods you can consume along with liver and eggs
raw-milk-facts.com/what_is_in_raw_milk.html

just eat less lmao
>Lol no
k so you got no evidence
I have some
sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022030212007424
fat soluble content in raw and pasteurized milk is THE SAME, because fat soluble vitamins like A and D are very heat stable
B vitamin content is THE SAME
protein content and amino acid distribution is the SAME

only difference is vitamin C content, around 30% less in pasteurized milk, but vitamin C in raw cow milk is almost non existing anyway.

>they add Vit A and D back to milk after pasteurisation
they add vitamin A to defatted milk in america
they add vitamin D to ALL milks in america and a bunch of other countries
raw milk has almost ZERO vitamin D naturally, do you even know this?
the only fat solbule vitamin found in significant ammounts in milk is vitamin A unless it's defatted.
>Proteins and enzymes denatured
it all gets denatured in your body before it can get assimilated you dumbfag, what do you think your stomach is supposed to do?
you don't use the proteins you eat for building muscle you use the amino acids in the broken down proteins you eat.

> 1.5€ / liter
"Meh" deal, imo. I pay $1 / liter for whole milk at Costco.

>protein content and amino acid distribution is the SAME
Yeah no shit, nothing is removed but they're denatured after the heating. DENATURED. Do you understand?
Low IQ post

Proteins can't be broken down into aminos by your body if they're denatured, they won't fit into the corresponding enzymes correctly

notice how I posted evidence for my claims yet you post nothing but your dumbfag opinions?
do you even know what denaturing is in the context of proteins you fucking dumbfag?
denatured proteins are EASIER to absorb, why do you think raw eggs are so fucking shitty for us to digest? because the protein in eggs needs to be DENATURED, but we humans are weak at it.
same reason why the most processed proteins from plants are easier to digest than from their raw whole food counterparts, denaturing is the whole fucking goal of digestion.
kys dumbfag, you're obviously retarded and posting dumb bullshit you found from some blog I can tell.

>Proteins can't be broken down into aminos by your body if they're denatured,
yeah, except they can
where are you getting this bullshit from again?
got anything to back up your silly ass claims?
>they won't fit into the corresponding enzymes correctly
feel free to post evidence of any of this
true ileal amino aciddigestibility of protein from pasteurized milk has been shown to be higher than that of any other food source, so you need to back up the bullshit you are posting or it's just a retarded opinion.

>He doesn't know about the induced-fit model of enzyme action
Fuck off dunning kruger
Same goes for you, just because it gets absorbed doesn't mean it gets used. It may be being oxidised instead because the enzymes can't work on it

That is bullshit the majority of proteins are denatured just by entering the stomach, and the enzymes work at certain amino acids not on certain proteins.

I was mostly talking about the recent changes in our diet.

>Still not a single source or link

Ok buddy, whatever you say :)

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You have a flawed understanding of digestion. The enzymes don’t have conformational specificity to proteins but to amino acids present in the proteins. They break bonds that exist at theses specific amino acids to break up the protein. Our body does not absorb protein but amino acids, when absorbed our bodies can make use of them either as an energy source or through protein synthesis to repair tissue or make gains

again you post ZERO evidence for what you're claiming, literally zero
I debunked your bullshit that "heating destroys most if not all vitamins" in milk, absolutely decimated your retarded fucking broscience with
sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022030212007424

you posted NOTHING
and now I am posting evidence that you are yet again talking straight out of your ass
even the most heated and processed and denatured proteins have almost 100% digestibility
get meme'd on dumbfag
sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022030298756504
>Same goes for you, just because it gets absorbed doesn't mean it gets used. It may be being oxidised instead because the enzymes can't work on it
the amino acids are literally assimilated in the small intestine you dumb fucking faggot, and since we know the rate with which the amino acids in any particular protein are actually assimilated and not simply used for gut bacteria metabolism we know that you're wrong.
we have TID and DIAAS and myo MPS studies showing that heat processing of milk does fuck all to any of those except full on sterilization which barely does anything to the protein quality itself anyway, it merely is detectable in difference.
if we get almost all of the amino acids in pasteurized milk in our small intestine and the net loss is almost 0 we are using them, you dumb faggot cunt

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Refer to Unless you understand why stereoselective inhibition or other inhibition may matter to enzyme digestion we don't need to proceed further

Should have paid more attention in school

No you won't get sick you fucking brainwashed cretin. You're more likely to get sick drinking supermarket low fat estrogenic piss labelled milk.

>You have a flawed understanding of digestion.
No you're just assuming
Read I'm literally a chemist, I understand enzyme action very well

Seething, yet still missing the point
This is what happens when normies read scientific journals without any background in the related science

Milk is shit for protein regardless of its processing. The purpose of raw milk is the preservation of micro-nutrients. In case you have been asleep the whole IIFYM macro-obsessed fad is dead and people are paying more attention to things that matter more in the diet like nutrient density.

>They break bonds that exist at theses specific amino acids to break up the protein
Yes but if the protein is contorted or altered in some way the enzyme can't get at it

For being a chemist you have a really shitty way of backing up any of you statements with actual evidence, and have showed a really shitty understanding of enzymes thus far. I am assuming you are just a student working on your undergrad and like to larp as a chemist. As well can you show any evidence that due to denaturation that the enzymatic rate of digestion is decrease with our intestinal enzymes. So far you have no evidence backing up anything and threw in bullshit technojargen because you probably heard in lecture that stereoisomers have different absorption rates for pharmaceuticals

Boil it every time before use and you'll be ok. It just tastes better and is better micronutrient wise, it won't impact gains since macros are the same.

>and have showed a really shitty understanding of enzymes thus far
Lol no, that's on you
>Graduate btw
>Yes but if the protein is contorted or altered in some way the enzyme can't get at it
If you don't understand why this is significant you should leave, start with the induced fit model that's high school stuff. More your level

You know the stomach denatures proteins right. Low pH causes this, it is literally impossible to consume protein without it being denatured

this

>hurr durr all denaturing is the same
Changing pH and heating to 60+C will cause different changes
pH changes may not always cause permanent changes to protein chemistry either, your intestines aren't pH 1

You just literally did a “no you”. You are so dense and have yet to show any evidence or reference to any of the claims you have made so far. You haven’t refuted any points and just spewed bullshit technojargen to try and make yourself seems smart. You should anhero faggot

I'm sorry that you're out of your depth

the one who's seething is the retard who literally posts zero evidence for what he claims despite claiming nonsense that goes against all potential sort of evidence we currently have on the subject at hand
stop spreading misinformation you retarded fucking cunt
>Milk is shit for protein regardless of its processing.
imagine being this fucking stupid, pic related
>The purpose of raw milk is the preservation of micro-nutrients
amino acids are micronutrients, I posted evidence that the nutrient composition of raw and pasteurized milk are equal with the exception of vitamin C which isn't even drastically reduced in heat treated milk
>In case you have been asleep the whole IIFYM macro-obsessed fad is dead and people are paying more attention to things that matter more in the diet like nutrient density.
oh so you're just a fucking retard then, good to know
where's the evidence that denaturing is bad?
where's the evidence that heat treated milk proteins are less bioavailable to mammals?
where's the evidence that raw milk is superior to heat treated milk in protein quality?
you are just posting straight up bullshit, keep getting mad over your bullshit claims getting debunked.

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>hey guys raw milk has way better nutrition than pasteurized milk!
debunked already
>y-yeah but heat treatment of milk denatures its protein and makes it useless
debunked

why are you still posting again you fucking retard dyel?

Can you show that pasteurization decreases the ability of our intestinal enzymes to be able to act on proteins due denaturation. As well
>your intestines aren’t pH 1
Yeah they are around pH 8, you literally have no clue what you are talking about do you

You are like a pigeon in a chess game, go neck yourself faggot

>muh degree bro
yet you're still so retarded and wrong lmao
post body with timestamps right now please, I wanna have a good laugh over this you fucking labcoat

>Can you show that pasteurization decreases the ability of our intestinal enzymes to be able to act on proteins due denaturation.
No, but I don't need to either
>Yeah they are around pH 8, you literally have no clue what you are talking about do you
lol wat, I didn't suggest otherwise brainlet
An enzyme may not be able to act on the same protein at pH 1 because the charges are different
But return it to 7-8 and it can act on it
If you heat it, it can be permanently altered

>yet you're still so retarded and wrong lmao
I have made no claims that are incorrect
You retards have been adding strawmen on top of "heat can denature protein and enzymes" which is invariably true

>I have made no claims that are incorrect
you're not getting away from this that easy you dishonest little maggot
you claimed "heating DESTROYS most if not all vitamins"
which is fucking wrong
you claimed
>Proteins can't be broken down into aminos by your body if they're denatured, they won't fit into the corresponding enzymes correctly
which is fucking wrong too
this is what you claimed, it's wrong and absolutely retarded and demonstrably fucking false
shut the fuck up labcoat boy

>you claimed "heating DESTROYS most if not all vitamins"
>which is fucking wrong
Only true for water soluble ones, and slightly lowers the others. Sure I'll give you that

>Proteins can't be broken down into aminos by your body if they're denatured, they won't fit into the corresponding enzymes correctly
>which is fucking wrong too
If a substrate can't fit into an enzyme active site it won't be broken up
This is literally the case, you're so mad yet you don't understand how enzymes work

>Only true for water soluble ones, and slightly lowers the others. Sure I'll give you that
>slightly lowers the others
vitamin A and D content in raw and pasteurized milk is identical
vitamin B2 content(which is a water soluble vitamin) is identical in raw and heat treated milk
vitamin C is the only difference that is detectable
again you are not even correct in what you post after being debunked, how can you take yourself seriously?
>This is literally the case
Except it's not, lmao
Cooking eggs DENATURES their protein which makes it easier for our bodies to absorb the amino acids in them, you are so fucking stupid it's hilarious
but please, feel free to disagree with layne norton who's a phd in protein metabolism on how denaturing protein is in any way detrimental to protein quality
biolayne.com/coaching/faq/part-d-protein-info/

>All forms of denaturing are the same
Brainlet
Do you understand the concept of enzyme action or not?
>appeal to authority
k den, he made the same mistake you did nor does he cite anything which you've been so pressed about
>Cooking eggs DENATURES their protein which makes it easier for our bodies to absorb
Okay why don't you burn your eggs to a blackened crisp? I'm sure it won't make a difference

I think its a scam for some things but definitely not all. For things like flour, rice and such I doubt it makes a difference taste or health wise, but when you eat the skin like with potatoes, apples and lemon zest I definitely try to go for organic even if its a few cent more.

Go for it! Its probably no different for proteins and such but it tastes like the absolute nectar of the gods compared to regular milk even if its fresh and fullfat.

M8 you are stuck on the concept of denaturation. Yes there are enzymes that cannot properly process proteins that are denatured, but the other user point still stands can you show any evidence that the denaturation caused by pasteurization influences protein digestion with the enzymes present in our intestines.
>Okay why don't you burn your eggs to a blackened crisp? I'm sure it won't make a difference
Also nice reductio ad absurdum, don’t be a logical fallacy faggot

>but the other user point still stands can you show any evidence that the denaturation caused by pasteurization influences protein digestion with the enzymes present in our intestines.
No, nor do I need to
>Also nice reductio ad absurdum, don’t be a logical fallacy faggot
That's the other guy with the "all denaturing is the same thing" shit

Does milk give manboobs?

I drink a quart of raw milk every day. The best milk comes from Jersey cows, but Holstein milk is still good in its raw form. Just make sure to shake it.

>There's virtually no nutritional benefit,

Please be bait, nobody is this stupid.

Pasturization process removes gut healthy bacteria, it is the #1 reason that people are lactose intorrerant. Additionally it removes most of the calcium, and K2 from grass fed milk.

IT LITERALLY DOES MAKE THE MILK LESS HEALTHY YOU ABSOLUTE MONG.

You did a logical fallacy as well, and yes you do need to show evidence, that is the foundation of science, as a chemist you should know that, if you are right then you should have no problem finding evidence

>You did a logical fallacy as well,
Didn't though, I demonstrated why a claim was absurd
>and yes you do need to show evidence
Your very specific want for evidence of "protein digestion of denatured milk proteins with the enzymes present in our intestines" doesn't exist, can't help you there buddy

>from Jersey cows and Goats
Fuck I'm from jersey. Where can I buy this raw milk

That was a logical fallacy you did, not proving his claim absurd. Then how can you refute the other anons article that showed amino acid absorb did not change due to pasteurization. Surely if the denaturation caused such an intense conformational change as to disrupt the lock and key effect of enzyme and substrate then the enzymes would not be as effective decreasing amino acid absorption

Nobody fucking cares about the nutritional value of raw milk. The fact that it tastes 100x better than pasteurized and is always fresher is the real reason to drink it.
Comes down to how much you trust the farms sanitation procedures.

>That was a logical fallacy you did
No, user essentially stated denaturing of proteins doesn't matter. And that all denaturing is the same.
So I demonstrated that if you keep heating it the denaturing would matter, sure it's an extreme example but it's within the confines of the argument and does address the argument directly so not a fallacy
(I get the feeling English is your second language, so if you want me to explain differently just ask)
>Then how can you refute the other anons article that showed amino acid absorb did not change due to pasteurization
Which article?

>Surely if the denaturation caused such an intense conformational change as to disrupt the lock and key effect of enzyme and substrate then the enzymes would not be as effective decreasing amino acid absorption
Ah, finally someone with a base understanding of this topic

You’re from Jersey, or New Jersey?

I'm a burger and just assumed you meant New Jersey

No. Why risk it for minimal gains which may not even exist?