If carbs are evil then why don't hardgainers just eat them and solve their problem of not being able to put on weight?

>All of the world's major nutrition and health authorities aren't in on some vast conspiracy
Haha yes they are

Cope conspiracy fag

>Eating cholesterol and saturated fat, frequently, in high amounts, will cause macrophages to form on the arterial walls, eventually leading to heart disease.
It wont nigger
youtube.com/watch?v=wlVMFxu55qE

>All of the world's major nutrition and health authorities aren't in on some vast conspiracy
They are actually, pic related
Why do you think they use relative risks of less than 2 and go around saying meat causes cancer and etc?
skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/eating-meat-causes-cancer-lets-get-this-right/

>to lower male testosterone by discouraging the consumption of dietary cholesterol.
They all seem very eager to lowerthe population though, and ad verecundiam is a logical falacy in case you didnt know

Attached: 1563948254635.png (707x578, 227K)

>Please come back when you pass high school biology
You're the one with a child like understanding of biology

Wrong pic, this is the right one
The money for big companies in grains

Attached: farmshareeggsansbeef.jpg (878x961, 145K)

Imagine falling for fake news in 2019. Lmao

>Imagine falling for fake news in 2019. Lmao
Imagine stealing a term used to describe cunts like you and using it against people that reveal your bullshit

Nice memes. I can tell you learned everything you know from YouTube videos. The insulin thing is an exaggeration, literally billions of people eat carbs without getting fat. But the true mark of a pseud is talking about huntergatherer speculation. Read a fucking book.

>See any people in KFC who are buff
This is Jow Forums-tier science. Looking at how buff people are in KFC. I'm certain that most of you literally score 80 or less on IQ tests.

Attached: IMG_20190812_143430.jpg (1029x819, 72K)

>literally billions of people eat carbs without getting fat.
Did you measure their bodyfat?

You already bro. Put away the brainlet images folder. You're too dumb to take part in this discussion.

>But the true mark of a pseud is talking about huntergatherer speculation.
Why? Evolution believers do it all the time and get away with it

When people who get heart disease because they base their diet on what they read in a New York Times conspiracy theory (lmao, imagine doing that) while ignoring both the science and the experts it's really their own fault. Not everyone can be expected to make the right choices

Post body

How people are still talking about Keto is beyond me. It is categorically proven wrong in multiple ways.

1. Entire nations have a carb "heavy" diet and don't all suffer from obesity. It cannot be carbs alone that cause obesity. Americans are fat because to them, carbs means sugars, not things like vegetables.

2. There is literally no evidence that if < 5% of your caloric intake comes from carbs you will reduce body fat faster than if 25% comes from carbs. CICO still applies when carb intake is in sane range.

3. People in this thread already spouting hunter-gatherer broscience. This is completely retarded for at least five distinct reasons, but more importantly, we have evidence that a standard diet of fruit, vegetables, meat, and wholegrains will let you live till 90+ with no diseases, and you decide instead to bet your life on some wild hypothesis about what prehistoric humans ate.

I understand that you're angry about the sugar industry and that yes we do eat too much carbohydrates but there's no need to go full keto to make a point. A bit of rice is not going to kill you for fuck's sake.

Attached: 1536425534456.png (1200x1200, 1.22M)

>When people who get heart disease because they base their diet on what they read in a New York Times conspiracy theory
You have no basis for this claim

>while ignoring both the science and the experts
What the experts say is that the data is inconclusive, only crackpots like you want to force their death cult on others

>Entire nations have a carb "heavy" diet and don't all suffer from obesity.
Which nations? Italy is obese, that's the only one I can think of

>1. Entire nations have a carb "heavy" diet and don't all suffer from obesity
You realize people can have a normal BMI and still be obese right?
>Overweight and obesity are defined as abnormal or excessive fat accumulation that presents a risk to health

>not things like vegetables
Which have almost zero net carbohydrates

> People in this thread already spouting hunter-gatherer broscience
See
>This is completely retarded for at least five distinct reasons, but more importantly, we have evidence that a standard diet of fruit, vegetables, meat, and wholegrains will let you live till 90+ with no diseases
"We" who? Can you stop with the group thinking please? Correlational "evidence" isnt shit nigger

>I understand that you're angry about the sugar industry and that yes we do eat too much carbohydrates but there's no need to go full keto to make a point
I dont remember anyone saying that keto is a good idea you moron
youtube.com/watch?v=O-HQoa0tmLA

>A bit of rice is not going to kill you for fuck's sake.
If you like arsenic and excess manganese lowering your IQ then be my guest

You really think the New York Times gives a shit about you or your health and that publishing wild conspiracy theories about the sugar industry controlling the world and Trump being a Russian agent is not just about sales and clicks? Amazing, a sucker is born every minute

>You really think the New York Times gives a shit about you or your health and that publishing wild conspiracy theories about the sugar industry controlling the world
google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/03/15/well/eat/eggs-cholesterol-heart-health.amp.html
So, which one is it? They think "fats are bad" or that "carbs are bad"

>Italy obese
It's actually one of the least obese nations in Europe.

Attached: Screenshot_20190813-045737_Brave.jpg (1439x1548, 859K)

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_Italy
These dumbasses think the obesity in 2 year olds is caused by lack of exercise

I don't think you understand. I don't get health or science information from journalists and newspapers. I don't care what they write.
And the article talks about dietary cholesterol and eggs, not fat, so apparently you can't even read a basic newspaper article aimed at imbeciles but fashion yourself smart enough to disagree with the scientific consensus in lipidology and nutrition. It's your call my man

20% obesity rate, so still obese

>And the article talks about dietary cholesterol and eggs, not fat, so apparently you can't even read a basic newspaper article aimed at imbeciles
>forgets eggs have fat as well

>fashion yourself smart enough to disagree with the scientific consensus in lipidology and nutrition.
You're so smart to not even know what an appeal to authority fallacy is?

>scientific consensus in lipidology and nutrition
You're talking out your ass now
You disregarded because you don't understand lipidology

I'm not going to reply to someone who can't get even basic facts right. Do a quick google search before asking questions.

>You realize people can have a normal BMI and still be obese right?
Yes, and? The point still stands. Staple foods in every nation are high in carbs. Are you telling me everyone is obese except people on low carb diets?

>We" who?
Who would win: Medical institutions, doctors, scientists, clinical trials etc. vs some internet "researchers".

>I dont remember anyone saying that keto is a good idea you moron
I thought this thread was about the keto diet.

>If you like arsenic and excess manganese lowering your IQ then be my guest
Hyperbole by yet another internet "researcher". Give it up.

So? All foods contain fat, except refined ones

You know those 20% also eat other things? Your narrow view of the world (and low IQ) can only see health problems in terms of carbs vs now carbs.

I was never able to get below 20% bodyfat until I ditched low-carb and went low-fat intead.

Carbs gave me abs.

>Do a quick google search before asking questions.
So there aren't any, gotcha

I'm not actually a ketard, someone else made the claim about societies with high carb intake being low in obesity or some other shit
Italy was suggested as a possible example, Italy is also obese
You will not find a high fat, low carb country so the whole exercise is silly
Stop getting so much ass ache over it

Still one of the least obese developed countries in the world. Only beaten by Switzerland, South Korea and Japan.

20% obesity rate user... Also the highest in Europe for 2 year olds

>2 year olds
Literally baby fat, they'll be fine. Besides they're not even eating proper food yet.

Other charts calculating adult populations put Italy at under 10% obesity. What a weird fight to call the healthiest country in the west, fat.

Attached: serveimage - 2019-08-13T052607.474.png (529x687, 238K)

>Who would win: Medical institutions, doctors, scientists, clinical trials etc. vs some internet "researchers".
You mean like this guy? He's was senior lecturer and peer reviewer
m.youtube.com/watch?v=buk8_juEOv8

Then why aren't other countries the same for fat 2 year olds you brainlet?
No European country is healthy that's the point

>All foods contain fat
>vegetables contain fat
>rice contains fat

Grasping at straws - the post.

Overweight people used to be pretty rare in China half a century ago (also Japan). However at this point there aren't really any places left on earth that don't have a bunch of fat people, largely due to the relentless global increase in dietary fat consumption

As for Italy, they too have increased their fat intake over the last few decades and some people have begun blowing up as a result.

As for Japan, men are more likely to be overweight due to cultural factors (Women intentionally undereat and any amount of excess weight is perceived as a masculine characteristic)

Attached: china.png (799x290, 33K)

>due to the relentless global increase in dietary fat consumption
In the form of seed oils and other refined vegetable fats yes

>He thinks a 20% obesity rate is a good thing

>Overweight people used to be pretty rare in China half a century ago
Is this a joke? You have a very bad taste

Attached: images.jpg (665x461, 42K)

If you want to claim that butter and lard would give better results (a fantastically stupid suggestion), you have to say it out loud and make your case. A pathetic and whimsical "those are seed oils" (a ketard term) can safely be ignored

>A pathetic and whimsical "those are seed oils" (a ketard term) can safely be ignored
He's right though
We know you're a vegan cunt by now

Attached: images (1).jpg (643x477, 18K)

Ketards can't make complete and clear arguments because they know they'll be proven wrong, so they have to resort to passive-aggressive posturing without ever making a claim that can be proven or disproven.

People followed dietary guidelines of replacing animals fats with PUFAs. And people are still getting fatter.
Seed oils are more voluminous and ubiquitous, they are in EVERYTHING

It's a poisonous mixture of this and sugar with every meal, most of the calories in the SAD come from oils, grains and sugar

And? I'm actually amazed people could be this bad at debating.

Wow lmao Jow Forums has finally died

This whole thread is shit.

>I'm actually amazed people could be this bad at debating.
Pottery

>Insulin inhibits hormone-sensitive lipase and stimulates lipoprotein lipase
and you store all of the fucking fat you ingest regardless of the insulin response, insulin merely acts as an energy storing mechanism when you are consuming insulinogenic macronutrients like protein and carbs, even on a 100% fasted state if you eat 500g of butter you are gonna store all of the energy you are able to digest from that.

>Ketards can't make complete and clear arguments because they know they'll be proven wrong, so they have to resort to passive-aggressive posturing without ever making a claim that can be proven or disproven.

check the carbohydrate intake in central africa and their BMI averages you dense dumb faggot

>And? I'm actually amazed people could be this bad at debating.
>A pathetic and whimsical "those are seed oils" (a ketard term) can safely be ignored

>even on a 100% fasted state if you eat 500g of butter you are gonna store all of the energy you are able to digest from that.
Yes, after it's broken down by ketosis
The alternative being glucose that will be used straight from the bloodstream
Do you see the difference?

>and you store all of the fucking fat you ingest regardless of the insulin response
>lacks references

>even on a 100% fasted state if you eat 500g of butter you are gonna store all of the energy you are able to digest from that.
>fat isnt used as energy but stored as bodyfat not matter your caloric needs
So youre one of that dumbasses from the past century that thrown away the egg yolk?

>See any people in KFC who are buff?

Yes, tons of ripped nogs on welfare in my local kfc, what's your point ... It's still 90% genetics in the end

>it won't
>posts some other man's talking points without his own words
I can already tell you're too dumb to participate in this discussion.
Ask your little manlet skinnyfat bald faggot boomer friend why lions and tigers that are healthy without cardiovascular disease have LOW LDL-C.
In fact ask him why EVERY SINGLE MAMMAL SPECIES is only heart attack proof when LDL-C is low.
Also ask him what's the healthy range of lipids in zoo animals like chimps and lions and tigers and gorillas.
All of them are healthy when their LDL-C is below 80, and almost every single retard on that piece of shit's diet has like LDL-C above 200.
this is completely unrelated to digestive tract ratio differences between species, absolutely nothing to do with the metabolism itself.
lions and tigers and bears have ridiculously high LDL-C receptor density in their livers and we do not, and when we eat more saturated fats our LDL-C receptor density in the liver goes DOWN, not up, it goes DOWN.
Explain that one to me please, with your own words, not some other man's which you worship without a second thought.

take a good look at the entirety of sub saharan africa or maybe south east asia?

Hardgainers are a meme in any first world country. You just need to loose your willpower for like an hour to bulk a kg a day even without a calculated plan. Lanklets who claim they can`t gain are like borderline chicks or tumblr feminists seeking attention through self victimization. Also what`s up with all that strawman shit? Keto is about cutting out carbs not celebrating saturated fat. No one ever claimed unironically bacon and butter are a good fat source. Lean beef and chicken breast and a shot of fish or olive oil is also a keto diet.

They're not carb heavy, especially not compared to how much grains and refined grains the west eats

>People followed dietary guidelines of replacing animals fats with PUFAs. And people are still getting fatter.
The guidelines have always advised to limit the consumption of oil and sugar, not to make it the basis of one's diet, so they are in fact not following the guidelines (which have recommended making grains, not sugar or carbohydrates, the basis of ones diet). Also the guidelines recommend limiting processed food, however almost all oil and sugar is consumed from processed food. Therefore people are not following the guidelines. Also, the purpose of replacing SFAs with PUFAs is to limit heart disease, not to prevent obesity. Lowering SFA intake has been successful in that regard, as heart disease mortality has fallen steadily from the point in the 50s when Ancel Keys discovered that fat causes cardiovascular disease.

>Seed oils are more voluminous and ubiquitous, they are in EVERYTHING
Water is also in everything. (except in oil!)

>It's a poisonous mixture of this and sugar with every meal, most of the calories in the SAD come from oils, grains and sugar
It's dishonest to put grains in this list, since people consume more oil and sugar than recommended but less grains than recommended. I could just as well say "people consume most calories from oil, sugar and animal products" if I wanted to be a clown like you.
As always, ketards have to resort to preschool level debate tactics since their core arguments are so weak.

>Lean beef and chicken breast and a shot of fish or olive oil is also a keto diet.
No it's not you retard, high protein diets will keep you out of ketosis

>Yes, after it's broken down by ketosis
no, retard, ketosis acts upon ALREADY STORED lipids, the fat you eat it's stored FIRST, burned second, this is very basic shit that everyone that isn't a retard already knows
>lacks references
literally google mammal metabolism you retard
>So youre one of that dumbasses from the past century that thrown away the egg yolk?
no, I'm not
gee what great argument, too bad it's posted by a retard with no true understanding of fat metabolism in mammals
read a fucking book retard, stop posting bullshit memes

Americans have among the lowest intake of grains of any group of people on the planet.

>they're not carb heavy
huh, you must be very confused then, because the poorest thinnest nations on the fucking planet eat the highest ratio of carbs, the opposite is also true

It's not a complete argument.

I think you realize how retarded your argument is ("butter and lard make you slim but vegetable oil makes you fat") so you are scared to type it out.

I'm not a ketard, they really live rent free in your head though don't they?

>heart disease mortality has fallen steadily from the point in the 50s when Ancel Keys discovered that fat causes cardiovascular disease
It hasn't though

>Water is also in everything. (except in oil!)
You just said people were eating too many oils, now you disregard that oils are in everything. How embarrassing

>It's dishonest to put grains in this list
To be honest I did mean refined grains, so that's my fault.
>people consume most calories from oil, sugar and animal products
This would be dishonest because they're not all processed, and from the same source (Plant versus animal)

it's called epidemiology

>posts some other man's talking points without his own words
Do you realize this whole time you've just been repeating what the mainstream media says aboyt cholesterol and saturated fats?

>In fact ask him why EVERY SINGLE MAMMAL SPECIES is only heart attack proof when LDL-C is low.
You mean, at genetic levels of impossibly low LDL like you see in n=2 studies of humans?

>Ask your little manlet skinnyfat bald faggot boomer friend why lions and tigers that are healthy without cardiovascular disease have LOW LDL-C.
You're not even trying to hide you're spouting vegan agenda are you? NIce ad hominem you got there

Pick any chart you like, Americans eat an absurd amount of grains

Attached: color_pie_chart (1).jpg (443x336, 113K)

>epidemiology
Just imagine thinking self reported data that indicates relative risks lower han 2 are worth considering

vocaroo.com/i/s1IIfxAcI68e

except I haven't you retard
how many of these keto and vegan retards do you see mentioning the fact of reality that zoo carnivores like lions and tigers are fucking SCREENED for their fucking blood lipids??
Do you know what they do to lions and tigers who are getting too fat? They put them on lower fat diets, do you know what happens? Their lipids improve.
And best of all, the average total cholesterol in lions in captivity(that are fed all day) is below 160mg/dl
tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/02541858.1987.11448018
furthermore I am not even saying people should avoid ALL saturated fat or cholesterol, for starters not all saturated fats are the same, and dietary cholesterol impacts people differently.
What I'm actually saying(which you are too dumb to read into) is that we shouldn't fucking pretend that there are no risks whatsoever involved with eating saturated fat or cholesterol.
If we are to claim that LDL-C doesn't matter in humans, then why does it matter on EVERY SINGLE OTHER FUCKING MAMMAL?
That's my argument, and no one from the keto retard circle or even the vegan turdcult is ever bringing this shit up.
Debate me now, refute my arguments, low LDL-C in the blood is the NORM in HEALTHY mammals.

I knew this would be some spaghetti nigger, go eat some gabagool I'm not listening to your fucking vocaroo
Italians are fat like the rest of Europe

Just do the omnivorous diet ez

Also post body, wop

for starters that gay little pie chart doesn't even actually look at the MACRO ratios of the american diet, so the whole thing is fucking retarded, amazed that you would actually post this in response to my previous post.
Here's my response to your bullshit response, look at the carb ratios in the world, the thinnest nations eat the most carbs in relative terms.

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>What is poverty
China is a fairer comparison and they're still fat

>CARBS ARE BAD MKAY?
>CARBS MAKE YOU FAT BECAUSE INSULIN
>TOO MANY CARBS BRO TOO LITTLE FAT
*gets btfo*
>YEAH BUT THEY'RE POOR AND STILL HAVE SOME FAT PEOPLE

love absolutely decimating retards like you
>what is le poverty
what is energy balance, retard?

>CARBS ARE BAD MKAY?
Not a ketard

>love absolutely decimating retards like you
You posted cringe bro

>Ketosis is a state where glucose as primary energy source is subistituted by ketone bodies.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9416027

Attached: serveimage.jpg (111x107, 3K)

Did you know that 75% of 1000 is less than 50% of 3000.

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Protein will cause an insulin response that keeps you out of ketosis, some protein will be oxidised to sugar/glucose also

>how many of these keto and vegan retards do you see mentioning the fact of reality that zoo carnivores like lions and tigers are fucking SCREENED for their fucking blood lipids??
Vegans do it all the time bro, dont think for a second you're fooling anyone

Lean beef and chicken breast are both below 15 on the glycemic index. The keyword is primary energy source. How many cows do you plan to eat a day?