How can you people experience first hand being a enslaved cog in the capitalist mega machine every single day like...

Fair point. Hopefully we'll get there in America here within the next twenty years or so.

The whole point of socialism is that the means of production are owned by the *community*.

Today is the day, I'm going to be ending it now early in the morning just before my parents wake up. I haven't slept in almost 30 hours.
Goodbye everyone, and thank you for the fun times. I'll start in around 45 minutes. Qls

Livestream video link + explanation:
pastebin.com/MiC4H08J

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so I know about ur perfect world, now how do you propose we get to a state that is "proper non-capitalist"?

at least flip the fucking image so I can't reverse google it

Time to not be pussies

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Fuck if I know
People are fucking idiots who will just fuck it up anyways because they're more worried about brown people existing or not enough trannies on TV

well friend if you dont make any differences then all this is just for a fantasy. I mean what else are you going to do in ur free time anyways? just cause something has never worked before it docent mean it wont work in the future, after all "failure is the mother of success"

thats wishful thinking on ur part, things usually dont change aside form tech being larger parts of our lives

Because the only genuine anti-capitalist ideology has to be nationalist. It's global, homo-imperialist capitalism or national socialism.
All other ideologies are allies to the former.

No shit this is all just fantasy
I don't affect politics any more than the maga tippers who feel the need to spam shit constantly
The difference is I don't feel the need to shit up the boards with that faggotry

okay? when will it be

>I'm a fascist
>service to the state
More like you're a cuck

dunno about that nationalist part, you can still have high levels of capitalist in an isolated nation, its the internal economy. Also Capitalism isnt that for USA as a whole since they can maintain a presence in most places of the world effective making sure they are the sole power.

aw dont be like that, I was gonna rope you into something stupid. i mean its always fun to fuck around.

also this is fucking r9k, I come here to send positivity and advice with robots not talk about politics. anyways i hope this thread some how degrades into a anime feet thread

rofling hard at your statement my guy

This is Jow Forums, the only rope I want is one to hang from my ceiling

what is your alternative
communism doesn't work

Not everyone has such an easy life like you, and you can thank capitalism for having an easy life. Under socialism you would be forced to work and Jow Forums literally would not exist

So just because some attempts have failed in the past means we can't learn from our mistakes and try again?
Life for all of us would be much easier under socialism, especially with the use of mass automation being able to essentially and effectively eliminate all human labour. And why would Jow Forums not exist?

I phrased it poorly, honestly. It's not the "whole point" but rather a core aspect of it. But besides that I'm pretty sure the statement was correct.

You don't have to support globalism or corporate power to be right wing.

my, I thought the yang gang died 3 months ago.
say, can i get another link to the discord?

Automation would lead to a useless, depressed population that is entirely dependent on the industrial system. It's like being a NEET but for the entire country.

"Consider the hypothetical case of a man who can have anything he wants just by wishing for it. Such a man has power, but he will develop serious psychological problems. At first he will have a lot of fun, but by and by he will become acutely bored and demoralized. Eventually he may become clinically depressed. History shows that leisured aristocracies tend to become decadent. This is not true of fighting aristocracies that have to struggle to maintain their power. But leisured, secure aristocracies that have no need to exert themselves usually become bored, hedonistic and demoralized, even though they have power."
- Theodore J. Kaczynski

>In a proper non-capitalist state, the government would be able to offer jobs for everyone
lol, and if we had unlimited food nobody would starve. So why don't people listen to me when I say we should just start having unlimited food?!!

Your entire ideology is based on envy. Nobodys life become better and everyone's becomes worth. Income inequality is the most retarded meme on there is. Why do I care how much money the Kardashians are able to spend when I already have everything I need? I don't even have an insane income, living wage here is 10.60 and I make 17 fixing up rental homes. If communism/socialism wouldn't benefit me, the lowly worker, that's only leaves the envious.

Everybody's becomes worse* hard to phonepost when your pinching one off.

You're * still pinching. I wouldn't correct this but some r*dditor is always lurking

I work for a cooperative and I'm an unionized worker. I'm pretty sure that's the furthest thing from being a cog in a capitalist mega machine.

I make a lot of money working hard at a skilled trade. I am protected by a union and I have excellent benefits. Why would I want to live in poverty under Communism?

user you really ought to learn more about what communism is actually like in practice. There is no comfy neeting it up on the dole. You toil away at your assigned and mandatory job, receive terrible pay, and maybe gov decides you have too much so it takes away what little you currently have to fund some bullshit gov project.

If you don't understand what political famine means, you don't understand communism. It's an evil political structure entirely incompatible with human society and can only exist under an authoritarian central gov.

>wealth to be shared and everyone to be happy.

You're such a fool.

>a cog
Lmaoing @ your life.
I paid 3k to go to a trade school for 1 year and had a job lined up right out of school paying 55k a year. 6 years later im making 95k. I paid 3k for this.
Sorry that people are dumbasses and dont know how job markets work, but millenials decided to all go into the same stupid degrees.
>"hurr i like photoshop ill become a graphic designer"
>cue influx of 5x more graphic designers than was ever needed
>"hurr its capitalisms fault"
Seriously almost all trades are a high demand job right now where companies will hire you before evem graduating, often paying for the cost of your schooling, and all the good ones have a starting salary of around 20 USD an hour. Retards just fell for the college meme.

>in this day and age

In any day and age. Communism exists only down the barrel of a gun.

they hate non-whites more than they hate their job

You are right! We need universal healthcare, free college, foodstamps for everyone, and more public transit!

>You go to the hospital for some free healthcare and there is a 49 hour wait because a new caravan of 70,000 migrants were welcomed in and given free healthcare priority.
>You go to school to get a degree but now literally everyone has one and they become as worthless as toilet paper.
>So you get on the free train but it is crowded with 10 times the number of people that would comfortably fit and their culture permits them to not wear deodorant.
>So you can't GET your free healthcare, your free education is worthless and public transit is a goddamn nightmare. Also there are now homeless camps stretching for miles in either direction and entire sidewalks are covered in human shit.

So you go back to your same wageslave life but, wait, you are now making the 15 dollar minimum wage! Thanks Bernie! Except it turns out that offering unlimited free shit to every human on the American continent costs a lot of money and the taxes didn't stop at the .01 percent like Bernie promised. Nope, they made it down to you too and you are now paying more taxes than ever and have less money than you ever did.

Before a single fucking idiot mentions marginal tax rates look at your min wage check and see where it takes out for Medicare and social security? That's what they don't fucking tell you, everyone pays that shit and there is no escape.

Good idea, let's do that.

>Under socialism
>Jow Forums literally would not exist
BASEDUUUZZ NERUSHIMY

The means of production are privately owned. That is the literal definition of capitalism. You do understand that you can have voluntary exchange, a price system, and competitive markets in a socialist society, right?

Capitalism's only function is to siphon surplus labor value from a compulsory underclass into the hands of a few capital owners.

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>It is easier to rape and pillage every corner of the Earth than to participate in a system of labor that doesn't include blood sucking capitalists

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>curious here

why do people act like _Capitalism_ is even a thing? It's a meaningless word. We don't like "under" capitalism, that's a weird perspective since if that's the case, we would be living "under" it no matter what we do.

Clearly, humans have an instinct to gather wealth, one that would be there with or without "capitalism". It's not like you can abolish capitalism and suddenly everyone will live in peace and harmony, the instinct will still be there.....

>nationalised public services means everything goes to shit and everything becomes underfunded
Amerikkkans shouldn't be allowed to post

They would no longer be used solely in pursuit of profit. For example, places like Cuba and the USSR dramatically decreased instances of illiteracy and homelessness. Programs like making sure the most vulnerable among us don't die from climate change would dramatically change infrastructure. Expansive public transportation would better interconnect private markets. Public spaces and organizations would reduce the alienation often felt under capitalism [1]. The I in MIC would no longer function the same, so there would no longer be an incentive to continue endless war (we no longer have capitalist interest bribing the white house) thus reducing the emergence of new refugees.

International trade would shift dramatically, perhaps imperiling vulnerable communities who rely on being exploited as slaves for minuscule contributions to their society. I would argue that the cessation of imperial war would help stabilize the regions around these places and help contribute to their self-sufficiency as they develop into less barbaric societies.

[1]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx's_theory_of_alienation

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Do you reddit commie shills have anything original? You post the same 12 memes all the time.
Fun fact retard, the global economy is a positive sum game. You literally fail to recognize basic economics. We dont need to split the cake equally for everyone to have a piece, we can just make more fucking cake because we can make more resources.
Also guess what dipshit? "Private" is such a shitty term because no one is stopping anyone from starting their own business. Theres nothing stopping me from building any business i want other than financial, and there are plenty of solutions to that problem.
>b-but you wouldnt NEED to solve finances under communism
Yeah because there would be no money so anyone could go assrape the earth for resources.
Thats disregarding the fact that a stable economy is near impossible without currency unless theres zero trade with any other country. In the entire western world that could not happen because nowhere in europe or the americas have all the natural resources needed for self sustenance.
You can not give something value without having a medium of value. If something can not be given a value it can not have a worth.
The best part is how communism would fuck over everyone the moment someone corrupt gets into power which is inevitable as power is a beacon for corrupt fucks
>"b-but there would be no positions of power under communism!"
Putting aside how mob rule would destroy everything because 99% of people are barely smart enough to make decisions for themselves let alone all of society, in this day and age there is no way to guarentee what communists promise without a governing body to make sure it happens. Anarcho anything is bullshit. Society can not exist without a heirarchy. Even native american villages have a heirarchy, and they live the most basic life possible.
A governing body would exist to keep communist ideologies in order.
A government that can give you everything you need can take everything you have.

user you really ought to learn more about what capitalism is actually like in practice. There is no comfy neeting it up on the dole. You toil away as you are required, as part of the inevitable underclass, to subject yourself to wage labor, receive pennies on the dollar for your labor value, and maybe gov decides you have too much so it takes away what little you currently have to fund some bullshit bank bailout.

If you don't understand what political famine means, you don't understand how capitalism effects the third world. It's an evil political structure entirely incompatible with human society and can only siphon natural resources until the world becomes inhospitable.

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Any left wing ideology that seeks to remove the 'capitalist mega machine' is untenable and the ones that want to work with it at best are half-baked and just make things worse and at worst are vehicles for stupid divisive identity politics

There are millions of Americans who are priced out of healthcare. You know all those people who die because they ration insulin because they can't afford any more?
>Entry level office secretary. $12/hr. Requires master's degree and 3 years experience
>Rush hour traffic both going to and getting back from work, only you are coerced into paying for all the bullshit expenses for transportation otherwise you cannot reach your job in the next town over.
>Skid row exists while there are more vacant homes than homeless people

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>He's fucking mad

I have like 75+ memes

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>"you cant neet it up under capitalism"
>posting the same shitty reddit meme you shills love
Come on atleast pretend you have a brain.
Neeting under communism is the impossible one retard. Literally everyone has to work. "From each according to their ability" you stupid fuck. Do you know nothing about the shitty 1900s ideology you're preaching from the ass of some dead russian faggot? I live in the US, obviously the worst capitalist country to exist because the USSR propoganda you reddit fucks love so much told you so.
I get nearly 2k a month in NEETbux. I havent worked q job since i was 16 and that was over the summer for computer part money. Under communism i would have to work, and if history is a good example (it is) thatd be at the end of a gun. Hard pass, go back to ChapoTrapHouse you shitty shills, NEETs dont want you.
You sound like someone who calls liberals socialists. The economic system in the US atleast what it should be if republicans didnt suck corporate cock) is the system coined by neoliberalism. Lassez-Faire.

Oh shit, dude. My bad.

Would you be willing to say that the same is true about white identity politics?

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>"hurr u disagree you're clearly seething"
If your ideology only lasts by being "anti" anything and on shitty reddit memes, its a tell of how bad it is
>pic is cherrypicking
Wowee look giving a good and bad example of 2 systems clearly proves one is superior.
I can do the same
>holodomor
>medicade
Look capitalism better!

So you get NEETbux because you're retarded?

If you're a retard, then you don't really have much ability then, do you? "From each according to their ability" right?

What if work looked more like 10 hours a week in a cushy job that directly helped your community? What if it were only compulsory until automation could do the job for you?

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Would you be willing to denounce the Iraq war as nothing more than corporate interest for weapons and oil companies?

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Theres a bit of a middle ground between "people dying because they cant afford insulin" and "totalitarian communist state"
That first example is shit because i doubt that would ever exist and on top if that college counts as years of experience
Second example is shit because this only happens in major cities and you should expect shitty trafic snd long drives if you live in a major city
Third example is meh but the issue is most homeless live in places without many empty houses so theyd need to move states and thats ignoring the logistical mess that is taking care of them making sure the houses arent destroyed and preventing junkies and drug dealers from turning their gibs house into a meth den.
Imo shelters are more cost effective as all it takes is helping them get back on their feet and they can start walking from there, shelters to get them fed and bathed and set up with jobs would be much more cost effective and helpful than moving them states over and putting 1 homeless man into a 4 bed 2 bath house.

I will happily agree to that. It's what identity politics is that makes it bad, not the faction involved.

Nope, not retarded. I have mild ADHD and severe sleeping issues and moderate PTSD, i just get NEETbux to get them. Im completely capable of getting a job.
>10 hours a week in a cushy job to help the community
You guys say that despite almost everyone working 40 hours a week everything is suffering but think that making everyone work 25% of that will fix anything?
Youre so obviously reddit shills because if you think ANYBODY on this board cares a fucking bit about community you're obviously completely new here.
>automation
Shit argument, there will always be jobs, humans will eventually go to the stars, we cant just plop up a fully automated base on a planet, there will always be jobs for people. Also
>machinss will do all the work then nobody needw to work because communist utopia!
The robots cant fix themselves, code themselves, assemble themselves, move themselves, repare themselves, design themselves, or a fucking plethora of things. 100% automation is a meme. There will always be jobs.
Seriously the only compelling argument you can make is "b-but sense of community" which outs you as a shill or newfag immediately because nobody on this board cares about society or their community.
Yes. Im not retarded enough to say that capitalism is without flaw. But you're looking at things too simply. The companies had interest because the governments had interest. There have always been, and will always be, wars for resources. This is a truth of life. Humans were born of violence, and it is part of us, war is as human as breathing and sleeping. Resource wars have been around for centuries, it is a flaw of humanity, not a flaw of any system.
I think the wars were bad, but they exist because humans exist. It doesnt matter what system, or what flag we exist under. Wars will always exist. Wars for resources will always exist. Its been this way since we were cavemen, and it will be this way even if we become a kardashev 3 civilization. Its human nature.

So do you support antifa's vision of stopping fascists from enacting violence on the basis of peoples' identities?

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Not him but i support the idea itself.
I hate the extreme right as much as i hate the extreme left. I agree with what antifa claims to be, issue is they've strayed from that vision.
Now its less "no more fascists!" And the blunt majority if it is "we need communism to fight fascism! Anyone who disagrees is a fascist!"
I cant be on their side if they wont be on mine.
I consider myself a patriotic person, i despise fascism with all of my heart as its one of the most unamerican things to ever fucking touch the face of this earth. A majority of antifa members would call me a fascist and say i deserve death solely because i disagree with them politically on their extreme ideology. I cant side with someone who wont side with me.
What they claim to be is agreeable, the only thing they ideally should be is a group that hates fascism, but in reality that has been perverted and they see anyone right of socialism as fascists and act violently and aggressively.
I hate fascists, and i agree with what antifa should be, but what it actually is Isn't that core idea anymore, its been perverted and turned into a hateful political group. I can not support what the movement really is. Regardless i will continue to hate fascism, i need not of their support, as they give me not theirs.

>Retard doesn't appreciate the community that sustains him

Pottery. So much of the job market provides no value to the community and the parts that do are criminally underpaid. Sales does less for the community that construction. How much work really needs to be done if it's to provide for people? You can of course work more for luxury and other cosmetic upgrades if you really want to.

>The robots cant fix themselves, code themselves, assemble themselves, move themselves, repare themselves, design themselves

Why not? You're out of your element of you don't think that AI coding doesn't already exist.

>even if we become a kardashev 3 civilization.

What will we fight over if we can mine asteroids and shit?

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Basically, in principle. I'm all for stopping violence being enacted on basis of people's identities. I think setting up yourself as an anti-fascist group means that you always have to find a group to define as fascist which could be a problem. Being violent against fascists basis of that person's identity of fascist is also kind of self-defeating if you want the moral high ground. Maybe necessary if fascists were actually attacking anyone but in any other case probably avoidable.

I think you should also be reasonable with what you define as violence too. If putting too many white people on TV is seen as enacting violence against POC you've gone too far.

>"you say you dislike society, yet you live in one!"
The memes write themselves.
>AI
What happens then? When robots are smart enough to do every job theyd be smart enough to see we're leaches on them and theyd wipe us out. AI learns at an exponential rate, once AI reaches human levels it would take almost no time at all for it to surpass us. If AI got to this level it would wipe us out instantly.
>hurr humans will never fight over things!
Thats exactly what will happen. There are asteroids out there as big as a house that are worth more than the entiee GDP of the world every year. Humans would definitely fight over this. Even without money you think countries wouldnt fight over an asteroid with trillions upon trillions of dollars worth of gold or platinum? Thats exactly what would happen.

Antifa isn't a group, it's more like an action

youtube.com/watch?v=bgwS_FMZ3nQ

If you have people that define themselves as antifa there is an antifa group
i don't really care if they are too pretentious to call themselves a group

How many "antifa members" have you talked to? Have you often encountered people who cannot discern a liberal from someone actively promoting fascist ideas/calls for intolerance and violence?

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Would you call Farage a fascist?

>Youre so obviously reddit shills because if you think ANYBODY on this board cares a fucking bit about community you're obviously completely new here.

You have to give me some leeway - this isn't exactly Mr. Gotcha. This is actively disavowing a community, not criticizing it.

>Even without money you think countries wouldnt fight over an asteroid with trillions upon trillions of dollars worth of gold or platinum?

So you're saying that people will fight over the unjust distribution of resources? You agree with me!

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I don't know much about him. I know he helped facilitate a Brexit vote that should have never happened so I don't like him. I think it's really funny what happened to him

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>There is *nothing* to blame for your suffering other than capitalism, and you are an unbelievable cuck if you support it as a wageslave.
Being right wing doesn't demand supporting capitalist practices. Or "corporatist," if that's more pleasing to you AnCap idiots.

I dont exactly spend time outside and even if i did antifa rallies wouldnt be my place to be.
Id say reasonably ive talked to over 200 online. There were a few that were genuinely only there to be against fascists, but the majority seemed to be in it not only as against fascists, but for communism or socialism. Ive seen more people than not claim that, and this is ad verbatim, "liberals are just polite fascists". Ive seen that claim or similair made more often than not. And ive seen a few times the claim made that "anyone who supports capitalism supports fascism and/or imperialism"
They took a group that was supposed to be solely against fascists and now it has its own inherant obvious political bias. Despite not even being right leaning, i would be called fascists by the majority of them. I agree with the idea of hating fascists, but i can not support the community as it stands now with its political bias, as they dont support.me.

Why does the left like the EU?
Practically the entire point of the thing is to be a protectionist capitalist bloc.

>Right-wing politics hold that certain social orders and hierarchies are inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable,[1][2][3] typically supporting this position on the basis of natural law, economics, or tradition.[4]:p. 693, 721[5][6][7][8][9] Hierarchy and inequality may be viewed as natural results of traditional social differences[10][11] or the competition in market economies.
>or the competition in market economies

Are you disavowing markets (agreeing with Marxists) or are you just redefining all the words until they make you sound good?

There is also no such thing as corporatism nor cronyism. It is all a natural consequence of capitalism.

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>another shitty reddit meme
For fuck sake have some originality ive seen it 80 times.
>"hurr people fight over unjust hrugurbfbglabablergrh"
I never said that retard, you cant shove words in my mouth like you shove crayons in yours.
They wouldnt fight over unjust anything, countries would fight to be the only one to have those resources. Humans are naturally greedy creatures. If you wanna deny human nature (dont post the shitty meme about that either ive already seen it 1000 times because you guys only have 10 of them) then youre the fool.
You really genuinely think any country would share said asteroid if it was worth more money than the entire world makes in a year? They wouldnt. Country would fight country over that shit. Wars over resources have always and will always be a thing.

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i love how everyone that bitches about capitalism are the same people that are objectively worthless lmao

it's like how every news reporter is jewish, it's very funny

Lmaoing at these extremicucks
Unironically horseshoe theory

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I'm not a fan of liberal institutions. But at the same time, I don't think sophisticated economic questions belong on referendums like that. There's this position that's like "Oh, the conditions of Brexit are shit. We should back out" which might be a smart thing to do. But how do you get a community vote on that? Do you ask all the permutations of "Get a better negotiator/leave/continue anyway/etc." on a referendum again? But what if that referendum disagrees with the first one? Is that going against the will of the people? It's more sophisticated than a yes or no can ever account for.

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You can't stop me from posting my memes.

Why is it human nature to fight for the interest of the few billionaires in charge of their country and not their own personal interest?

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If you're not worthless then you don't belong here. Please go back to Twitter where you concern yourself with karma and retweets you fucking faggot

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That's what makes it so unbearable really, we should be supporting socialism in theory though the 'socialists' only seem intent on bringing more migrants into our countries, increasing populations that ideally should be in decline and reducing our worth to being less than cattle to save having to re-evaluate Keynesian economic theory and implement policies that require actual risk. Hedonism isn't an excuse to be alive, but neither is benefiting a community that seemingly resents us for existing, there really is no place for us to go.

i think i'll stay, i like making dumb, hypersensitive faggots such as yourself squirm