Im looking around vegan threads and what arguments both sides have. So far i cannot find real reason to either eat meat or not. Im not a vegan myself, but i have this craving to understand and play the "Devils advocate" here.
Can u peeps find some solid arguments either FOR vegans or AGAINST it. Try to make the argument solid and rational.
For example i will understand the point of view where humans are superior to animals, but i would like to see some reasoning behind why would we need to consume the inferiors (otherwise it would be recommended for racists to eat nig-dogs).
Also if you are vegan and try to say something about cruelty to animals, i would like to know the reasoning there aswell. For example if you say meat is murder, then i would like to know why murdering animals is bad. Answer the question : if you are able to give something life for 15 minutes would you do it?
Most importantly i am intrigued about the environmental standpoint. If there is a 1km x 1km box that solves global warming and nature and produces food for people, but you dont know what happens inside the box, would you be against the box?
Mby its too blabbering, if so send me to the nearest anus and ill try to post something more comprehensive in the near future. Sorry
Are you referring to the egoistical and powerplay point, where humans as superiors need to show dominance over animal kingdom by eating it. Or are you referring to the nutritional value paradigm, where you will get great nutrition and enzymes from meat for penismusclegrowth and bloodflow, also for tasty semen cocktail for op?
This is normalfag shit. Every true robot will immediatly think about this when they thing about vegans/vegetarians: What is wrong with murder? If its allowed by the law its ok to kill asany living things as possible. Who the fuck cares about behaving socially acceptable?
eat meat, get heart disease and erectile dysfunction.
Like any girl would let you fuck her anyway...
Vegetarian arguments: - The industry is causing mass suffering of many millions, perhaps billions of animals worldwide - They don't like the taste of meat - Eating meat is culturally frowned upon in their area - It can make you fatter
Non-vegan arguments: - To stop suffering, you'd need to go all-out vegan, as opposed to not eating meat, as almost all foods are biomass and consuming biomass directly and indirectly hurts other beings - Meat is a standard biomass for humans, and replacing it while staying healthy is hard
I am a normalfag dw. As i understand, you dont have a problem with murder as long as it is allowed by law. That doesnt still explain why should you eat something you murder. Cos its tasty is a valid answer for that but i would like to see a more general answer on this regard. Also just because something is allowed doesnt mean its something you want to do. Also you cannot disregard other POV-s to your own. even when being not socially acceptable you need to understand that some people find actions (legal or not) not to their taste and its not offendable. For example if a person doesnt want to murder you cannot expect his reasoning or actions to be inferior to yours.
>but i would like to see some reasoning behind why would we need to consume the inferiors
The 'reason' humans consume animals isn't solely because their the inferior creatures. It's a bountiful, easy to maintain supply of nutrition. The Hindu cow is sacred and supplies almost everything a village needs from food to tools and medicine. But they still slaughter it. If you want to know the 'reason' for livestock then read about the history of agriculture and why eating crops alone doesn't cut it.
You are talking about some meats (red meat /lots of fats) that are causing those illnesses and hazards for human body. Doing something that is not benefitial for your own body is never a reason to stop doing that. take for example driving, living in the city, eating cheaply manufactured food, getting up in the morning, going outside and so on.
If there are actual healthy substitutes for everything we get from animals then sure. you could make studies and advocate for it and it would spread like wildfire but I guess there is a reason why this isn't happening. Is there a way but someone is stopping us from going this way?
Because we have the biological ability to and we'd be stupid not to take advantage of being omnivores Because regardless of what you eat a lot of things are going to die. Fields of crops are death zones for vermin and and other wildlife. Because good luck convincing people to eat insects despite their superiority on paper and lack of higher thought processes. Because meat tastes good and humans are prone to ignore suffering for their own pleasure, especially when money is involved Tldr: Because we can and there is no viable alternative despite what vegans would have you believe. If people could eat a block of artificially produced food made from non organic materials that tasted good, was nutritious, didn't cost any suffering or death, and was cheap and convenient nobody would eat anything else.
There is no need to go back into roots and find reasoning there. We do it cos we have always done it is the most important and casual point of view in this regard. Im looking for something more plausible and reasonable. You are talking about easy to maintain and plentyful supply. That i can understand. Would you say then, that eating meat at this current time is necessary because there is no other option that could be more efficient/cheap/resourceful supply of tasty food? And in the case there was an option, that is more easily maintainable the human race would move on from meat. AAnd farm animals get extinct, nature gets dissolved and planet will be a big ball of new york slums.
You are absolutely right. Your comment answer many questions i had, but it gets stuck in the industrial section. If you say people would stop eating meat if a better option comes, that would mean meat industry would collapse or adapt to new means. If there comes a time where a single factorychain can produce food for whole world that would mean massive industrial meltdown. You cannot expect that to happen for the same reason the whole world is not on green energy/electric cars. The maintenance of jobs/wealth/healthcare and political systems are not so stable. Also would you agree if someone made a factory that produces the "best Food" he would still be doing that for the money and would crank up prices, control the consumtion and so on. This would mean that people still opt out for the cheaper stuff, like hometown sausage factory run by Pete, who is 83 and never eaten the "B-food"
>There is no need to go back into roots and find reasoning there.
This is a pernicious idea and you should put it out of your mind.
The history of the human race started with agriculture. And if you study it you'll quickly learn the history of the human race is doing more with less. We're not mindless consumers, we're really great producers. It only behooves us to find the highest return yields (in this case, food and nutrition).
Agriculture, that is to say the act of feeding people, is the oldest human endeavor. Unless someone creates a magical nutriton paste you can assume we're currently operating at peak efficiency.
Point is. Consuming meat is not perfect, but, it is optimal.
Great points. -Can i ask if you can muster an opinion, that uses the suffering principle and subjection, but is Against vegans? Believe me there is. - Taste of meat is subjective and therefore is never a logical reason to be resentful of people who eat meat. - Cultural influence is great. Instagram vegan-models are shaping our children and nephews who are trying to be cool and "in". There is no logical behavior behind this, just some random bullshittery that is not worth investigating in my opinion. I would say that doesnt qualify as a reason to be a vegan or not. You cant say you eat meat cos you hate the activists or instawhores. Also you cannot say you dont eat meat cos "She doesnt and she so skinnnyyyyy" We tolerate the low influenced because they are our relatives and we love them. When they get older and more questioning, we will step in and have a discussion. Not right now tho. U go girl play fortnite and eat cabbageroot.
-It can or cannot do something is vague and therefore dismissable. vegan potato chips make you fat. sugar makes you fat, fat makes you fat. Its not exclusive to meat.
-Nonvegan argument align with 53291092
I didn't think too deeply on the economics/political angle. I'd assume that anybody capable of producing that would start small and at high cost, eventually scaling up. Competition would arise once the tech leaks and as you said cheaper food sources would also be a factor. The meat and other food production industries would lower prices and increase quality until it was no longer viable for them to do so, most of them investing in the new food as prices would eventually drop to where buying a steak is more expensive due to the lack of industry demand production knowledge and infrastructure let alone cooks required to make a steak. Original foods would be the organic food of the future, something that is purchased for emotional and status reasons rather than convenience and would maintain a niche market. This is all assuming that such a super food wouldn't be the result of a post scarcity society at which point all preconceptions or economics and politics break down.
1) most grazing land/pasture/hayfields is/are marginal land unable to grow crops. Animals turn this marginal land into high quality protein 2) humans are omnivores and the cheapest, most available source for some essential nutrients is meat 3) on the other hand a vegan diet CANNOT provide full nutrition without global refrigerated transportation because plants are seasonal. Massive shipments of seasonal plants that allow vegans to talk about being green require massive amounts of fuel and increase food costs, which hurts the poor most! Veganism is a luxury hobby that hurts the poor.
Perhaps you are right. We are working at the optimal capacity the humans have mustered. Although i have a problem with that. Maybe im dumb and idiotic to think that technology has improved greatly, while food processing and manufacturing have been kinda stable for the last decade or so.. Am i wrong? Or is human race kind of hit the stalemate situation where everything is egoistically perfect and there is no need to progress further except for the sole interest and curiosity. Also Technology cured the curiosity of man so there is no reason to go further.
Dude we are still engineering new ways of producing more to feed the growing population. GMOs are 1 obvious example.
Vegitarians or generally less healthy then other humans and quicker to catch sickness, there are things in meat that we need to maintain a healthy human body. Take the fucktards that try making their pets vegetarian for example, the pet dies pretty quickly. The owners should be put in prison for their stupidity
If there was a more nutritious alternative, that was more sustainable, for less cost - we would be eating that right now. Optimal production is not only preeminently desirable, its inevitable.