How do I respond to the "others cant love you if you dont love yourself" argument?

what makes them think you don't love yourself in the first place? if you're complaining to them about your dating struggles or lack of friendships, that's on you. no one wants to hear a guy complain about anything ever, period. women aren't told this stuff because they're always loved regardless of how they feel about themselves. the truth is, men are just expendable, and unless you're a ray of sunshine in the lives of everyone around you no one wants to deal with your shit. basically, just rot in a corner and die if you're a miserable person to be around, is the sentiment.

It's a hand dryer

you stick your wet hands into it and it dries them with air

If you hate yourself, are visibly insecure or depressed, have constant gloomy, dark thoughts, you will be unattractive as fuck to everyone unless you are physically a 10/10 turbochad that people have to wonder why you're such a downer when you have the body of a supermodel.

OP here. Just for context I'm preparing a bunch of responses to stuff I expect to hear given that I am seeing a therapist soon, not just for this kind of shit but it's gonna be a major topic so I expect to hear this argument at least once if I know the average person well enough.

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I don't think anyone is saying other people should love them though. Maybe people who parrot that argument just automatically assume they want or care to have other people "love" them.

But even if you don't love yourself, it doesn't mean you'll complain constantly or even at all. It doesn't even mean you'll not be likable. In fact, a lot of people who love themselves are unlikable and complain a lot, probably because they love themselves and think they deserve better. See, the thing about this vague psychological advice is that it doesn't actually teach you any meaningful conclusion, or even sway you one particular way. It just sounds like it makes sense if you look at it and don't really think about it. What does love yourself even mean, anyway? There are a thousand different ways someone can view themselves and it may not have any connection to how others perceive them.

It means take care of yourself. If you love yourself, you'll try hard to make something of yourself, you'll try to improve your situation, you'll keep your living space clean, you'll exercise and eat healthy foods and stay away from unhealthy habits, you'll associate with good people who aren't destructive to you or others. These are the things that are attractive to someone that can genuinely love you, and these are the reasons why I have never been in a loving relationship.

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because it's actually "women can't love you if you don't love yourself"

if you are depressed your true guy friends will help you get out of it, but a woman will never help you without wanting something in return.

It's not even an argument, but since there are self-hating people with girlfriends, it's obviously not true.

Your point being? Tons of people have completely dysfunctional relationships that leave both parties miserable and should never have begun to exist in the first place, and yet somehow they are still "dating."

By accepting it's the truth and working to heal your self-hatred. It's okay to forgive yourself user. You are still worthy of love.

Why does loving yourself mean those things, though? There are plenty of people who don't love themselves but it makes their life easier to do those things, and plenty of people who love themselves and don't want to bother with those things. It also doesn't necessarily mean destructiveness when people don't do those things. Also, doing things that provides benefits for other people doesn't sound too much like 'genuine love'. Ultimately even taking care of yourself may not have much to do with whatever is meant by self-love.

That doesn't mean they're guaranteed to lance you when you finally love yourself.
It's true but just one of many requirements

It's just another weird and bullshit excuse they love to throw at you which they can't even explain themselves let alone expect you to understand it.

Why argue with something that's totally correct? Do you need a response to the "things fall because of gravity" argument too?

Refer to this
(how the FUCK was this post not original?)

A person who can't even love himself can't be expected to love anyone else. It shows a person is not mentally stable enough for a relationship.

Yeah but why do you need a counter argument for something that is 100% true?

Which doesn't translate into any behaviour or observable practice at all. It's convoluted bullshit with no concrete basis and is only said to purposely muddy the water. The only real factor that goes into whether someone is "suitable" for a relationship is raw animal attraction and you know it.

Being mentally unstable is definitely a behaviour. Sorry but you're single because you're a sperg. Women aren't as shallow as incels.

>mentally unstable
And where is this equivalent to "not loving yourself" hm? Like I said it's bullshit used to muddy the waters. You don't argue in good faith and you can go fuck yourself.

>Being mentally unstable is definitely a behaviour.
But you can't concretely describe these things. You can't concretely describe what mental instability even is, never mind how it's expressed or how it affects people and relationships. Any knowledge related to psychology is ultimately vague because it's based on our limited conceptions and observations of human behaviour. We can't truly understand how people work, we can just observe how they respond to certain things.

But it's true. Even the ancients knew that, AND modern thinkers. Baltasar Gracian even said that "if you desire to be respected, respect yourself first."

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to answer your question, yes.
That is exactly what capitalism is about. I suggest you read some cultural Marxist literature to understand the intricacies of this sort of thing.

You cant, its true.
Not even kidding.

he didnt make any answer you fucking tinfoil

Couldn't have put it better myself. How could someone count on you if you don't care for yourself.

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Thats a good trick for someone manipulate you. It diprives you your own fuckin choise to fuckin hate yourshelf.Search for the ones who can take your shit as there are..

my doctor literally told me the opposite
>oh, so you're depressed? That must be because you're a young man without any sexual contact
>You should really ask someone out for a drink sometime

I did, she said no, I feel like shit.

Can you love a newborn baby that can't even understand love?
What about pizza? I love pizza, and as far as I know it doesn't love itself.

It's an aphorism. It isn't meant to convey a concrete truth, only a general idea.

Certainly, loving yourself may not mean any of those things, but generally speaking you will attempt to take care of yourself if you love yourself and those are the most common ways to go about doing this. Maybe you have other needs when it comes to loving yourself, and you're free to explore those needs, because only you can decide what it means to genuinely love yourself.

Still, I can't see the love in eating your way to a heart attack at McDonalds, or pumping a life savings worth of heroin into your arm until you overdose and die. And I can't see someone who loves themself spending time with people who bring nothing good to the people around them, living out of a dirty trailer or a shitty apartment in the ghetto, scrounging by on NEETbux and doing nothing to improve their situation. And I certainly can never see somebody who is worth loving falling in love with someone who lives like that.

The reason I don't love myself is that I feel like I'm a burden to everyone and all people would just be better off without me. But no one dares to say anything and instead just pretends to like me.
I wouldn't feel that way if someone truly loved me. If someone actually cared enough to text first, or ask to meet, or go in for a kiss, I would know they weren't just faking it because they were actively seeking contact with me even though there was no social requirement. But the fact this has never in my life happened, is the exact reason I believe I'm just a burden. The reason I don't love myself is exactly because no one else does.

So I can't love myself without the love of others, because the lack of that love is what threw me into this hole in the first place and continues to keep me there.

i love myself, what i hate is the others.

Not gonna lie I love those hand dryers

But there is no point to a general idea when the idea behind it cannot be explained through actual reasons and true, indisputable knowledge. Otherwise applying it to people is as good as making a guess about them. Like I said about the taking care of yourself and self-love parts, it's not really that those are the most common ways of going about doing that. It's just some people do things that are considered taking care of yourself, and self-love is something associated with people who do things that others perceive to benefit the person who's doing them in the long run. And about the last part about all those unhealthy practices, they may be damaging their health but they're still doing those things because they want to. A short-term desire may be short-lived, but there are people on this earth who can't value living in the long-term at all, or seeing themselves living like that. Being worthy of love only stretches as far as how much the person in question is doing to benefit long-term goals, as ultimately people want to be able to live it good in the long-term.

"others cant love you if you dont love yourself" doesn't work in a majority of cases because it doesn't explain the millions of shit people who have found love and yet still remain as shit people

They can still love themselves though

what constitutes loving oneself? fitness of the mind? fitness of the body? financial security? emotional stability? there are plenty of morbidly obese people who hate themselves with loving wives/husbands, there are plenty of gangbanging hoodrats that are drinking/slinging themselves to death (which is definitely not a form of self love) that have people that love them romantically, etc etc

It makes sense it's just they forget to mention that you shouldn't love yourself unless you're chad though

>there is no point to a general idea when the idea behind it cannot be explained through actual reasons and true, indisputable knowledge.
This would be true if humans were pumped out on a conveyor belt, each being the exact same as the next. But we're not all the same, we're different. There is no concrete formula to happiness, as much as you seem to want there to be. Like I said, it's just an aphorism. If you don't like it, then don't bother with it. Only you have the freedom to find what makes you happy.
>all those unhealthy practices, they may be damaging their health but they're still doing those things because they want to.
There is a glaring different between taking care of yourself and hedonism. Just because you want to do something doesn't mean it's good for you, and having the strength to abstain from hedonistic impulses is part of loving yourself, because you know and practice what's best for yourself. Hedonism is just empty pleasure without purpose. If the end goal of the aphorism is 'finding someone who you can genuinely love', then I don't believe that indulging in empty pleasure will attract someone who you can love and be loved in return from.

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None of those. Love doesn't need to be externally visible. Love of yourself is literally a feeling. A feeling of being okay with who you are and what you represent. Even if not everything you do is cool, you're still happy you're you.

this. Being loved is necessary to be happy with yourself if you even have the slightest bit of care about other people

where did you get pic related user?

Why would it only be true if all humans were the same? It can also mean that the aphorism isn't true, and any results made by listening to it weren't actually a result of the aphorism or were a result of actions taken as a side effect of the aphorism. Also, if there is no concrete formula for happiness, why do people even bother giving advice if the situation is different for every human?
Also, how is there a glaring difference between taking care of yourself and hedonism? Who are you to decide what's good for someone? That is up to the individual to decide. Not everyone has to live the exact same way, with everyone having the same interests in fitness, food, career, et cetera. What is 'good' for someone isn't clearly defined anyway. If someone likes short-term pleasures, or simply isn't interested in long-term pleasures for some reason, then they will still make themselves happy by pursuing them, even if it isn't your idea of self-love or self-care. Don't forget that even long-term pleasures like fitness are done with attaining happiness in mind, so ultimately they share the same goal. Perhaps long-term pleasures are better off in the long-term, and there could be a multitude of reasons why people don't pursue them in favour of short-term pleasures. But everyone is ultimately behaving in what they consider best for themselves; even if they lack foresight or they just plain don't care about their future, the fact that they don't want to engage in long-term pleasures is in of itself a form of decision with their self-care in mind, as they are following their present interests.

Next time I go in a restroom with one of those I'm pissing with it and I hope some wagie who browses /o/ has to clean it up.

I've loved people who don't love themselves.

If I need to become a narcissist and sociopath to be liked by others, what do I even need them for then?

dddddddddddd test estsegdsj

Industrial society and it's future by Ted Kacinsky

I believe it makes total sense. I consider myself to be far too ugly and unlikable to ever be in a relationship. So when someone expresses their interest in me, I turn them down not because I don't like them but because the thought of them wanting to be with me is something I can't ever believe.

You need to have a positive image of yourself in order to let others in.

Please let me post Please please let me post

People need to see this post

People like positivity. The trait is usually absent in people that hate themselves

why are you on Jow Forums then nigger?

It's from some book called "The Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog"
This whole le ebic ted maymay will never catch on and will be dead within a year or two as you realize this more and more.

The better way to put it would be if you don't like being with yourself or like yourself then how can you expect other people to like you. It just sounds better to say the generic "others cant love you if you dont love yourself". You know yourself better than anyone around you ever will, and if you know you are a bag of shit, why would anyone else want to be around someone like that. Think to yourself about girls that describe themselves as "I'm such a bossy bitch" or "I'm such a spoiled brat oh my gawd" your natural reaction is disgust. The difference is for most unattractive people, others aren't willing to look past it to be around them.

Reminder that short men should take the pink pill. Bi girls will accept short women, but not short men.
.gg/myT7chJ

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This is stupid. You absolutely can "love" yourself and be happy alone without other people. It is much easier if other people love you too but to say that you NEED other people for this is plain wrong.