What the hell is it about masculinity that's so difficult for far too many damn guys? Some of them are giving up entirely and trying to become women.
Is it a testosterone deficiency thing? Is it societal propaganda bullshit about "toxic masculinity" and the subsequent anti-violence indoctrination of public education? WTF is going on? This is not normal compared to previous generations.
I don't get it either
I pretty much have no masculine traits whatsoever besides career achievements and even I find the idea of transitioning completely incomprehensible and utterly disgusting
Masculinity is hard. You actually have to -do- stuff to be masculine, and that is difficult, especially in a world that discourages that behavior unless you look like Jeremy Meeks.
On the other hand, wahmen don't face any consequences for their actions whatsoever and get to do whatever they want so I can't blame men for wanting to be them.
they want in on the identity politics and attention train. that's literally just it - it's the male equivalent of attentionwhoring. it makes that duck-facing phase women went through years ago look tolerable
"masculinity" is not something you "do" it's something you're born with. A large square jaw, long clavicles, robust ribs, thick wrists, height, hunter eyes, protruded cheekbones, these aren't things you "do", they have no absolutely nothing to do with your behavior you mongoloid
> wahmen don't face any consequences for their actions whatsoever and get to do whatever they want
OP here, that's actually a pretty interesting point, we do live in a gynocentric society that heavily favors women (family court rulings, legal bias/prison sentences, affirmative action, "M'lady", et cetera). So you think that part of the trans motivation might be and attempt to get some form of societal bias in their favor?
The only problem I'd see with that is most traps aren't passable. Wouldn't most have to be passable to get that kind of social bias?
>femininity praised by media, governments, businesses and education
>most people raised by single mothers without a father figure
>most teachers are female
>we live in a gynocentric feminist society in which women are given all the support structures and opportunities and not held responsible for any failures they have
>men are treated like crap and masculinity is a taboo that gets criticized
>if a man displays masculine traits society punishes him for it and tells him to behave more like a woman
>xenoestrogens in our food supply from hormones in milk and meat, to isoflavones in onions, to plasticisers that occur in all of our food and drink packaging are feminizing men
Hmm yeah no idea why.
Is it any wonder that the two main choices for men who aren't in the top 10% of attractiveness are become a woman or lie down and rot.
>"masculinity" is not something you "do" it's something you're born with. A large square jaw, long clavicles, robust ribs, thick wrists, height, hunter eyes, protruded cheekbones, these aren't things you "do", they have no absolutely nothing to do with your behavior you mongoloid
Masculinity is different than physical features of testosterone.
>they have no absolutely nothing to do with your behavior you mongoloid
Every culture has different ideas of what it is to be masculine or feminine; it has everything to do with behavior.
>>if a man displays masculine traits society punishes him for it and tells him to behave more like a woman
In what ways does society punish men who are masculine?
>Masculinity is different than physical features of testosterone.
No.
Masculinity is a set of physical traits.
No.
Masculinity is a set of behaviors.
masculinity has become vague and a bit watered down for me man. I dont think its been properly conceptiualized even by edgelord philosophers. You take masculinity traits after your dad right and some other role model and you have an inkling of what you ought to be mimicking. But that doesnt get reinforced by the rest of the society properly so idk man.
Why you gotta be living under the label huh faggot?
Of course it is, and of course most traps don't pass, but they are still treated better than almost all men even if they don't.
>What the hell is it about masculinity that's so difficult for far too many damn guys?
Traditional masculinity places high value on, among other things, self-reliance and self-confidence in one's achievements.
Young boys are being raised these days to value teamwork instead of healthy competition and receive positive reinforcement instead of criticism. They never learn how to take criticism. They don't learn how to pick themselves up if they fail at something.
You can't blame them for not being masculine if no one teaches them how to be.
There is such a thing as masculine and feminine behaviour. I'm not talking about the aesthetic physiological characteristics that are the result of pre- and post-natal testosterone and developmental factors like pic related. I'm simply talking about behaviour as it may be influenced by choice, culture, or hormones.
It's called toxic masculinity and it basically means "how dare he behave like a man".
You are not supposed to be confident or stand up for yourself or be assertive or take charge or exhibit violence or have an atmosphere of banter with other men (because women don't understand banter and feel excluded).
>"masculinity" is not something you "do" it's something you're born with. A large square jaw, long clavicles, robust ribs, thick wrists, height, hunter eyes, protruded cheekbones, these aren't things you "do", they have no absolutely nothing to do with your behavior you mongoloid
You're utterly and completely wrong.
Watch old news or documentary file footage from the 1950's and 1960's. It's absolutely full of white guys *doing* stuff and by doing stuff achieving masculinity.
Hell, the average fucking ASTRONAUT from the 1960's didn't have that list of attributes you just ticked off. Nor did the average NCO fighting in the Korean War. Nor did the average New York City beat cop during the 1977 blackout. Are you going to tell me that those guys failed to attain the social standard of masculinity prevalent in that time?
In fact, the entire problem in the current year is that all of these historical expressions of masculinity are now completely scorned by our society and the only masculine attributes still valued are the ones connected to appearance. For which we can blame women first and last.
>Go-getter attitude
>Arrogance
>Stoicism
>Give-no-fucks mentality
>Stalwart
>Silent and tough
All attributes of what being masculine generally is. You ever been afraid of a guy who didn't seem threatening at first but then did something that made you respect him? That's behavior. Now gtfo.
Because a trans is willing to fill the feminine void for a guy, and gain said favors in return. Sex and emotional connection are more decided needs/luxuries than having a satisfying hobby for many. Not the guy you're responding to fyi.
The people that talk about toxic masculinity are insecure men and bitter women; and it's a vocal minority to boot. How often do you hear that in everyday talk, in everyday life, outside?
>You are not supposed to be confident or stand up for yourself or be assertive or take charge or exhibit violence or have an atmosphere of banter with other men (because women don't understand banter and feel excluded).
The only thing about that that is true is that we're not supposed to exhibit violence. Confidence and leadership (assertiveness and taking charge) are both qualities few people possess and many admire / reward.
You sure have come up with a really complex set of reasons as to why you, personally, are so lonely.
Have you considered that it has nothing to do with society at large and maybe you're lonely because you have a personality no one wants to be around?
Taking responsibility for one's failings is definitely a masculine trait you seem to lack. It's probably all those estrogen tablets you're being forced to take, right?
Society has become too comfortable. Automation has taken place. Effort reduced.
>toxic masculinity
This is when weak men who do not exhibit masculine traits try to overcompensate with what they believe masculinity is: hypersexuality, anger, intolerance, etc.
I'm not lonely and I did not say anything about loneliness.
That word is made up and all those are exactly what makes a man a man
You seem lonely and a little bit sad, user. Do you have friends you can confide in or family as an emotional support structure?
>Confidence and leadership (assertiveness and taking charge) are both qualities few people possess and many admire / reward.
Its a little more complicated than that. Look at what traits generally connect to confidence and leadership: being independent, rebellious, an out-of-the-box thinker, and such. Now think about what schools, the very first steps into society, require you to do: think the way society wants you to, do things the way society wants you to, and don't question it (and definitely don't oppose it). Leadership and confidence are still desired traits, but not as an actual "tribe leader", but as a "2nd in command": you shut up and let the person at the top do its thing, and if he isn't there, you do things the way he told you to. Now you have a filter that only makes the absolute most rebellious and unorthodox people actually become confident leaders (or the ones that are actively encouraged by their heritage and public, but I'd argue those fill the role of the leader only by the leader stepping down and playing second fiddle for years), and largely punishes those traits due to the side-traits that go with it. Its obviously not impossible to have confidence and leadership skills be praised, but its much less than before. And one of the best indicators of that, is how girls tend to do better at schools these past few years, despite academia still being dominated by men.
You don't have the faintest idea of what makes a man. Your father has been out of your life since you were a child, your school teachers were all women, you didn't play sports, now you never leave your mother's basement.
Who would have possibly taught you how to be a man?
Hey good try you got a few things right but no and The got damn nigger ass military thats who
It doesn't help that I feel like we were lied to our entire lives. I literally didn't know until I was in my 20s that just "being nice and being yourself" were basically worthless in the dating world, but I feel like all of media has told me that if I just be a good guy at heart I'll get a gf eventually.
It's funny because you know when I actually did have an active sex life and female friends and stuff? When I was 13-18. I'm almost 26 now and I haven't had a non-internet girlfriend in 8 years.
Masculinity is not hard
The hard part is getting over the fact that people don't see you as a man no matter how you behave
If you're short - you're an overcompensating boy. If you're thin - you're over your head and look like a clown. If you're ugly - you're just a dangerous monster.
Masculinity is for Chad.
>nigger ass military thats who
POG detected
And you inferred that from me saying the word nigger. Bravo
Yeah, because blacks don't go into combat arms MOSs. If immediately descibe the military as full of niggers, you were a POG.
Nigger im not a nigger the military is full of niggers and boomers thats why im calling it nigger ass
>I literally didn't know until I was in my 20s that just "being nice and being yourself" were basically worthless in the dating world,
That's not true at all; being genuine shows confidence, being nice gets you friends and status
What people (women) look down on are people who try to be martyrs and door mats
Oh shit. Nevermind. You're just a larping teenager trying to be edgy.
My mistake.
If you have friends, confidence, and are "nice" you're not special or attractive, you're not even at the baseline minimum yet. And this doesn't even factor in what you look like.
My point is, we were all sold the idea "plenty of fish in the sea, someone out there for everyone, women are a dime a dozen, you'll find your special someone eventually etc". I just feel like society prepped us to just be too passive, it feels like we were told that if we just existed and didn't majorly fuck anything up, a girl would fall into our lap out of nowhere at some point. Does that even happen to people? It must happen to a lot, but not me.
This. If you've never had any self-confidence, it's impossible to understand. Trying to explain self-confidence to a "lifelong loser" (pardon the term) is like trying to explain the color blue to a blind man.
It's a quality they can't understand, so they never include it in their calculus as to why some guys get girls and some guys don't.
I AM ALL THE EDGE YOU SLIMY SQUARE CUNT!!! I aint no slack jawled little ditch diggin cunt basher neither. So pull up those cute wittle gym socks and GET YER ASS OUT IN FRONT
Cringe posts bro
>If you have friends, confidence, and are "nice" you're not special or attractive, you're not even at the baseline minimum yet. And this doesn't even factor in what you look like.
Confidence and friends (popularity and status) are definitely attractive qualities for women. And anyone 18+ that isn't nice is going to have a hard time making friends.
I'm just arguing that they aren't worthless qualities with dating; not that it's the only thing you need to get someone to be interested
>It must happen to a lot, but not me.
It only happens to people who live in cultures with arranged marriages; go outside
>You sure have come up with a really complex set of reasons as to why you, personally, are so lonely.
>Have you considered that it has nothing to do with society at large and maybe you're lonely because you have a personality no one wants to be around?
>Taking responsibility for one's failings is definitely a masculine trait you seem to lack. It's probably all those estrogen tablets you're being forced to take, right?
YASSSS
>it feels like we were told that if we just existed and didn't majorly fuck anything up, a girl would fall into our lap out of nowhere at some point.
The movies told you that if you overcame some challenge, you'd get the girl. Indiana Jones prevents the Nazis from misusing the Ark, he gets the girl. James Bond foils the bad guy's plot, gets the girl, etc.
No one ever said that you just get the girl if you wait your turn.
By the same token, if you have confidence, it's pretty hard to explain what it's like since it's so intrinsic to your character.
Telling someone to have confidence is like telling a manlet to be taller.
>Telling someone to have confidence is like telling a manlet to be taller.
No way man, definitely a false equivalency
It's more like telling a skinny person that wants to be buff to start lifting weight, or a fat person to start dieting
Want to develop confidence? Right down a list of everything you're insecure about and the first step to solving it and start working on it. Will it be easy? No. Will it get you confidence? Yessiree Bob.
to pull it off to a degree where it 'works', you need to have a particular constellation of genetic traits (ones that Chads have by default).
If you don't have the baseline biological requirements and still try to be a 'man', then you'll be invisible and socially expendable your entire life.
It's just joining the winning side imo.
This puts it well. It's embarrassing for some scrawny boy to try to look like a "man" so hopefully they can find themselves a pretty girlfriend. They could find happiness by freeing their spirit from gender roles and being "cute"
>motivation might be and attempt to get some form of societal bias in their favor?
Well yeah. They are just oblivious to the fact that they will never look like women and that no man or female wants to be with an abomination
Masculinity isn't socially rewarded. If you are good looking it may grant some bonus points, but if you are not then it doesn't really matter. Honestly the same happens with femininity. Are modern women feminine in traditional sense? Not really.
the definition of masculinity (or femininity for that matter) evolves over time, as does other words and concepts, especially abstract structural ones
"masculinity" nowadays, or even 30 years ago, isn't the same as it was in ancient greece
modern civilisation makes masculinity optional
In the 19th century, males had to have short hair so they could work in the coal mines, blacksmith, army, etc.
Now anyone can just live their whole life in a cheap apartment working at McDonalds
>Is it a testosterone deficiency thing?
Yes. Today average man have almost half the testosterone of a man 150 years ago.
There are many reasons for this.
-plastics
-shit they put in processed food
-physical activity
-chemical pollution
-genetics
Yes genetics. If you think hard about it 150 years ago child mortality was ~40%. Sickly boys and girls did not live long enough to reproduce. With advancement of medicine there is almost no child mortality. It is cruel to let kids die, but if you think hard about it, they pollute the genetic pool later on. Every genetic trash lived and had kids. Baby boomers are the worst offenders. First off there were so many of them, second off during ww2 every able bodied man was send to war. The ones that stayed fucked every hole they can find, only god knows how many genetically inferior bastards were born.
>Is it societal propaganda bullshit about "toxic masculinity" and the subsequent anti-violence indoctrination of public education?
If you think about what put humans at top of food chain it is adaptability. Masculinity is useless trait in 21 century. If you find genetic material and breed sabertooth tigers and release them in the wild 90% of them will die in one generation. Sure they are cool but they are simply not fit for survival in today environment. The strongest will survive on pure skill, but on the long run they will eventually perish. Same with manly men. Some men can pull it off but most can't because environment punish them. So they adapt. Anti violence plays part too. I'm 32, lived my childhood in eastern europe. It was brutal after communism collapse. I remember coming back from school and going outside. I spend most of the day outside, playing with other kids in closed factory, there was one fat kid that will probably not be considered fat by today standards. Everyone was running, climbing and yes fighting. I can't remember more than 3 days without fight.
cont
Even most timid kid will be considered "hyper aggressive" and out of school. Today what is encouraged is faggotry so you get faggots and trannies. They just adapt to the environment. On a side note. Men should really stop eating trash. I remember when I moved. I was physically active and got "flabby" after 3 months on trash food. Hamburgers, hotpockets and other trash should be banned.
whats the point?
everything fucking sucks.
Wage for 50 years alone then die, be a man :^)
People over think masculinity. It's not physical traits. It's not behavioral traits. It's character traits. A man feels fear and pain, but keeps moving ahead regardless. A man faces the festering void of rot in his soul without buckling under despair. A man learns from his folly and recovers from his failure. A man supports those close to him with his life. A man carries those who cannot walk. A man bears the responsibility of his own character. And a true man, above all else, is prepared to face death on behalf of his family, friends and convictions.
>What the hell is it about masculinity that's so difficult for far too many damn guys? Some of them are giving up entirely and trying to become women.
shills nowdays trying to brainwash people, just that
Nicely said. Do you have Instagram?
>And a true man, above all else, is prepared to face death on behalf of his family, friends and convictions.
Talking about dying for something is real easy when you know it will never happen.
The bulk of the samurai warrior code was codified long after they ceased to exist as a fighting force and had become a class of bureaucrats carrying swords.