I can't be the only one that thinks this is shit

I can't be the only one that thinks this is shit.

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Other urls found in this thread:

warosu.org/g/thread/S68679580
warosu.org/g/thread/S68625381
bookstackapp.com/
github.com/solidnerd/docker-bookstack.git
harmful.cat-v.org/software/dynamic-linking/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Yeah, I think the whale would sink.

I think it's a security liability that has no place in a production environment, especially since so many people who use it fail to understand it.

as a webdev, what the fuck is this shit. I use ftp and write php you fucking mutts.

can you elaborate what vulnerabilities you have in mind?

I'm a c++ programmer, I've been suddenly tasked to test our application on some web server environment, I know the web field was a shit show slaughterhouse, but I couldn't even begin to comprehend why someone would do all of this stuff, I only wanted to execute my program and store a result, I don't know what the fuck is all this clusterfuck of virtual mach- oh, excuse me, "containers"

I have no fucking clue anymore what these hipster faggots are doing in this field. Needing a package that needs a package that needs this package just so I can make a pink dick cumshot on the screen is fucking stupid. I hope AI takes over and every pink hair faggot offs themself.

No, but you're the only one making daily threads about it.

Retards think it's a magic make-it-work solution. But like all proclaimed panaceas, it has severe long term drawbacks if you don't actually know what you're doing.
When used competently it's a tool for consistent testing and deployment, and it's pretty good.

Because for some reason computers don't come with the proper dependencies to run webstuff, so it's useful to create the same environment everywhere. And the poorly coded servers shit themselves when something minor like paths change. And the OS and software are all coded in such a way that you need to set up additional shit to plug all security holes.

docker makes programmer jobs easier and sysadmin obselete

Jokes on you. I'm going to apply for a devops job and spend the rest of my life docking shit up.

half of you nigger monkeys don't even understand wtf docker does. Quick explanation:
docker containers are not VMs, they are regular processes that run on the same kernel as the host. Under the hood it's a glorified chroot with a bunch of virtual network interfaces + some other stuff all over it.
docker images are """stateless""" recipes for a container. Every command is a build step which adds a "layer". The most basic recipe installs the host OSes userland in a zip package and that's it.

At least it's slightly less retarded to host your webshit on it, as compared to bare metal - less exposure on average, and less hassle to install.

elaborate

poo_in_the_loo.psd
at least it's not java.

Docker will pull down dependencies from -somewhere-. Sometimes it is a good source. Sometimes its a repo somewhere that hasn't seen an update since Docker stopped being the hot new thing. All-too-often the person using Docker doesn't know where the repo is pulling from, or how to review it well enough to be sure they aren't using a vulnerable stack of shit as their foundation. And no one actually goes around auditing random Docker repos, so lets not even get into the possibility of intentional malicious activity.

Is this a daily thread now?

to be honest I didn't know it was something that happened usually here. I've been outside of Jow Forums for more than a year. It was just that I felt so buttflustered about this piece of software that I needed some outlet to vent. I'm really sorry if this looks like spam, would you like me to delete the thread?

wutt

>sysadmin obselete
>implying programmers understand kubernetes / openshift

One has to suspect if sysadmins aren't coming up with this so they get to keep their jobs until they're found out.

Possibly, but they obviously had programmer allies to program these atrocities for them and invent those awful hardware description languages.

>typing a 20 line yaml file
>job
i am pretty sure even a bootcamp retard can do that
accept that sysadmins are getting being taken over by automation

I can do that
t. bootcamp retard

I've been using GuixSD instead. You can generate whatever server you need, with it's exact dependencies, then deploy it all automatically from a script or emacs. Caveat: won't run your gigantic Node.JS pile of trash but good for anything else, like Nginx that passes to your obscure Common Lisp/Racket/Haskell/Ocaml/Golang or whatever server.

No worries. Just stating the facts. You have a point, but in every development company tons of open source, frameworks and repos are used. No company goes through the hassle to audit that all.

Docker is basically an automated deployment tool, right?
Where can I learn it?

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Managing this shit is fucking nightmare

No, you are talking about ansible, puppet and chef. Docker is something completly different.

sysadmin has just got more specialized ie: you're manually editing kernels in order for speed of your video streaming site, or you're manually fucking with BGP requests and the like.
Most sites just need some Google/cloud expensive solution where they can simply plug into App Engine or whatever and deploy their shitty CRUD business logic.

If you want to make a gigantic amount of money the highest paid jobs are people who can optimize networks and kernels, Netflix will parachute you into their campus at 600k+/year but if you were already this skilled you'd likely be making $1million+ at a betting exchange.

Last one was pro docker I think.

But isn't Docker also used to set up a production environment?

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Docker is a 'container'.
A “container” is just a term people use to describe a combination of Linux namespaces and cgroups.
We already have these things called Zones (Solaris), VMs and FreeBSD Jails.

The main difference is you can do namespace sharing with Docker, and share X sockets. That way have two containers running that can share the same data, ect ect. Docker is written in Golang (I believe) and it's a huge abstraction, so lot's of complexity and bugs. It's a one sized fits all solution to use in conjuction with some other junk like Kubernetes. Personally I would just use FreeBSD jails and manually get around problems like namespace sharing.

Sorry, deleted and rewrote my reply so it wasn't shit (it's still shit tho). Docker, yes, you can use it to keep track of dependencies and things or to test out for production or whatever. Most languages have virtual environments for these or you can also just spin up a VM and do it yourself.

GuixSD then came along with NixOS and gave us 'guix environment' which is similar to a docker container, where only what you need is copied into it. That way you can now easily deploy your app anywhere and it will be guaranteed the same in production as on your laptop.

kyle?

Didn't we have the same thread yesterday? seems like so

It wasn't

Docker is a nice tool to help to automate some stuff so it won't depend on anything on the actual host, making it easier to do CI stuff. Sure, tons of shitty webdevs are overusing it, but there's no tech that's safe on a monkey's hand.

Ah, it was last friday.
warosu.org/g/thread/S68679580

wrong link
warosu.org/g/thread/S68625381

Its possible to maintain your own registry. and specify that when building Docker files. This is also useful when Docker image that you're referencing is removed.

>.psd

Graphic {{artist}}} detected, TOP KEK.

Let's say I'm developing an application and I have a database in a Docker container. How would I use it in production? Would I upload the whole container on the server?

You aren't, but I have a sneaking suspicion that most people that hate it don't do shit besides yell "install gentoo" on Somalian dildo forums.

I say that because it makes maintenance, development, and deployment a fucking breeze and is honestly a godsend for sys administration and development. Since I've started implementing it, my system overhead is largely lower since I can just run some lightweight shit like CoreOS with containers for all my microservices and connect them together.

> computers don't have required dependencies
> not just including them in the download or auto download
Nuke silicone valley

Docker make sys admin and programmer jobs easier. Tf are you even talking about?

That thread was positive, we had one yesterday that was just shit talking docker. Seems to be a regular thing now.

dont think of docker as a container with some shit in it,
think of it like a process
this process is created by few instructions that tells it what run in what way
in the end you dont transfer container, you transfer those instructions

your persistent data are separated and docker is all about the ease and speed of deployment

This thread again?

Docker is very useful for continuous integration and automated system testing. I'm not sure what your opinion is outside of

>it's shit

but without qualifying why, you just look like a jobless NPC

that's fucking retarded. What's the difference if I launch a docker file or simply launch sudo apt install mariadb?

It's not for you and your one hobby server. It's for people running tens of thousands of servers, on demand. When application artifacts all include their own versions of dependencies locked at build time, it becomes very hard to update a component that has a security fix. You can't just apt-get a new version, and trust debians/ubuntu or whoever's security release schedule. You'll have to rebuild, make a .deb package, and distribute it. One server, who cares, a hundred servers, uh shit this will take days, a thousand+ servers and you're fucked.

This problem was already solved though with NixOS and it's gnu version GuixSD using functional dependency management

>It's not for you and your one hobby server. It's for people running tens of thousands of servers, on demand.
Fair point, I totally understand that. Now could you tell me why every motherfucker is using Docker then?

same reason they are also using kubern8s when they don't need to, some guy sold them on hype and automation to reduce their devops or sysadmin employees to one. (which will explode one day, given all the docker bugs)

My mum does too

I see, it was driving me crazy because I saw a video of a guy creating two containers, one for a Spring Boot app and another one for nginx and I didn't get the fucking point of this. He was literally making everything more difficult than it is.

the difference is that on centos or opensuse distros you wont be told to go fuck yourself
thats why people bother with it, do it once and it works the same everywhere, consistently, easily, quickly, very quickly

imagine you are looking for something for notes and documentation
you find bookstack
bookstackapp.com/

do you know what you need to try it on your PC right now?

git clone github.com/solidnerd/docker-bookstack.git
cd docker-bookstack
docker-compose up -d

and just go to your browser and localhost:8080
that was all
compare it with your scripts for dozens distros to install correctly database and webservers and shit and to also easily and cleanly get rid of it, and to be spinned up in a second whenever, or to have easy update

and the best part, go look in to that directory at the docker-compose.yml file
its so obvious whats going on even for a noob and how to make changes
so fucking easy to adjust and play with it

are you done testing?
docker-compose down in that dir and its done

Anyone who is at least bit techy in the linux world.. they must have been bumping in to every project having docker ready for them, so easy to use

why pay for DevOps when you can fire all of them and just pay one developer the same salary to deploy a crud business logic app with docker

If docker purpose it's to contain standalone applications with no dependencies (like a VM), it's failing badly since the moment running one docker service (like wikimedia) requires you to run yet another service, aka dependence, (like a DB).

For development, and more precisely for automatic testing (DevOPS) it may be useful though.

Branching off containers and their data (so you can rollback or swap and correct shit) also is a thing. Also easier to test.

Dependencies on a runtime environment and dependencies on a service are two different things. And don't be a dumbass and conflate "environment"" with "services running in an environment" as that is a garbage comparison anyone posting in this thread should know the difference between. In your example Docker lets you isolate the requirements of the wikimedia web service (PHP or whatever) from the requirements of the database (Postgres or whatever). Also gives you decent control over exposing ports/files/etc. (definitely not a replacement for VMs, but it has a totally different use-case).

No dependencies is not really a sane goal. Yes, you want to be able to pick your DB?

well u dont need 1 fuckboy that solely exists to setup environments on all your severs.

It's a ship

No, I'm not developing wikimedia, I don't care witch DB it uses, I just want it to werk.

As I said, it may be good for development (where you want to choose your DB), but not for containerizing, where all you want is one-click isolated install.

The requirements of the Wikimedia web service include a DB, therefore not all of them are isolated. You seem to imply that if it goes through a socket it's not a requirement, well it is, without it it doesn't run, so a requirement.

I bet you defend dynamic linking too faggot.
harmful.cat-v.org/software/dynamic-linking/

Should a database be run as a container or just have part of your stack containerized?

the you have to keep it updated, which is a job in and of itself--thus defeating the purpose of containerization. might as well use VMs at that point.

no, but you can try with persistent volume on containers but that fucking defeats the purpose of containers

Reading a Dockerfile isn't hard and serves as a recipe for doing it yourself without the help of Docker. Every parent public Docker image you pull has a fully versioned and publicly available Dockerfile.

1. Start with Dockerized flavor of linux
2. Install your webserver dependencies
3. Load your application from a tar file or compile it on the spot.

You configure most of your app at runtime (environment variables, feature flags).

Devs typically either run the database directly on their machine or remotely on some other computer, or as a separate container. You can if you want to create an image that runs both the application and the database but I wouldn't advise that.

Zookeeper, rabbitmq, elasticsearch, anything memory hungry with persistent storage I would avoid running production in docker, you can get away with running a small NOSQL DB, arbiters nodes.

Almost every major cloud provider has a DTR implementation, you can also host your own registry.

This seems somewhat retarded (mostly because it is) but it involves using a mount volume (-v flag). The running container processes the data and might hold some of it in memory but anything persisted to disk is written to the volume. What this might provide is flexibility in deploying new versions of the database.

A better use case is creating a database administration tools image that operators use to perform maintenance tasks (migrations, backups), since those tools change more frequently and benefit from easy reproducability because little Billy doesn't know what a make command is.

I agree that it is a requirement, but it is not a requirement that they run in the same container, environment, machine, etc. That is why it isn't necessarily a shortcoming of Docker. You can just use something simple like docker-compose to express those dependencies.

Can someone point me to the right direction in installing kubernetes? the updated one?

i cant access dashboard. docker containers in nodes keep exiting and making new one

Docker is basically like LXD and ansible both rolled into one. I prefer LXD+ansible over docker, but I just discovered lxd yesterday so what do I know.

Programmers still don't understand dns. Not worried.

All cloud providers have a 1 click install. Azure has one that is decent.

I'd like to become a "modern" sysadmin. Where do I start? Is there any project guide or something that I could do on my own to learn all these things combined (docker-kubernetes)?

So unless you’re autistic it’s secure

What an assfag. You can configure your own repository so your first point is null. Docker isn't a "hot new thing" it's been around for fucking years now. Keep deploying using your samefag methods and when your company goes under I hope you remember this lul

Vile sysadmin sorcery

So docker is just a installer using it own format of installation script?

No

glorified virtualenv for my purposes.
But some guys I know swear by it.

But that's what it sounds exactly like.

>docker-compose up -d
Why the d? Why can't autists choose sane defaults?

People literally said the same about virtual machines in the early 2000s. fuckin lel

>Anyone who is at least bit techy in the linux world.. they must have been bumping in to every project having docker ready for them, so easy to use
i've seen it a number of times, but i don't understand exactly what it does or what benefit it has, so i haven't used it

its really really slow. we tried it in production, and failed

As usual the amount of unemployed people in Jow Forums who have never held down a real job is fucking hilarious. Yeah, no fucking shit Docker is pretty fucking stupid to use for your fizzbuzz and hello world garbage. You can talk shit all you want but there are issues that occur in a large organization that supports a bunch of software that runs on different infrastructure with different requirements. Docker is TOOL to help solve some of the problems that arise with the above. That's all.

Now go back to ricing your desktop and writing your millionth implementation of fizzbuzz. Docker is completely useless for you.

No one does that in production though.

Sell me this docker shit.

Id just start playing with it

I agree with you, it's shit

> unbalanced parentheses
nigger monkey detected. Not a graphic {{ artist }} though.

>docker purpose it's to contain standalone applications with no dependencies
This is correct - given that "dependencies" here is used as 'tomcat depends on java' or 'symfony framework depends on PHP7'.

>it's failing badly since the moment running one docker service (like wikimedia) requires you to run yet another service, aka dependence, (like a DB).
This is not - because, given the example above, mysql is not a dependency for tomcat. In any case, if mysql *is* a dependency for your application written in tomcat - you can just stick both in the same docker container (not exactly the best solution, but you *can* do it).

A bunch of better solutions would be:
- docker compose (if you want to run all of your docker containers on the same machines)
- docker swarm (if you want to run them on different machines)
- kubernetes/other container orchestration framework (you really like using google's shit).

So, in a way, docker *does* solve the "install all my shit with a one-liner in the shell without worrying about the dependencies" problem. Or, at least - it simplifies it enough to shorten up the installation time by quite a lot.

it's the same as running scripts from unknown sources on your personal machine, except for the fact that auditing a docker file is actually easy because it's not a several-thousands-loc file, and instead it's got ~30-40 loc tops.

get a load of this faggot

depends on your usecase for it.

I got 3 containers running
>Collabora Code
>pi-hole
>pyload

In my case, it's perfect

I strongly disagree. The ops staff at my last fortune 500 job did exactly this with their own dependency repository. I think anyone who should be concerned with protecting their data already is using docker in a similar manner.

I don't know what your fucking problem is, niggers.
Docker is literally just a VM, but with less overhead. That's it, nothing more, nothing less.
The fact that you can download a ready-to-use docker image and don't have to configure anything manually is just a bonus.
Point was to made a solution for the fact that you need a separate fucking kernel (i.e. literal bloat) for every server on the same machine. With Docker you only need one kernel, bloat is lessened and performance improved.