Is the knowledge of French in French Africa similar to people's knowledge of Spanish in Latin America where everyone...

milk truck just arrived

You only ever met Indians that got work and student visas for the US. You realize there might be some selection bias at work here, right?

Aren't countries like Rwanda are actually switching out French for English? I wonder if that's going to spread to the rest of French Africa.

It does seem like the French cared more about their language being spread than the UK did.

You don't know what AAVE is user.

i thought knowledge of french was declining in the maghreb

God I hope this is true, language barriers are some of the best barriers

It is, morrocans that can afford the internet are oligarchs

Arabic seems more useful than French in the modern world.

Very few parts of the modern world speak Arabic.

arabic is harder
the thing people don't understand is that we study arabic in school like we study french
most tunisians can't even communicate in standard arabic

There where some waves that pushed for more Arabization but they came to the conclusion that they just can't do without French.

Rwanda is a small country.

It depends on the places
Don't know how it is in the Maghreb but in Sub-Saharan Africa the rural people know some words and sometimes some speak it, and in cities basically everyone speak it on a daily basis but it's slightly broken french with a thick accent. You can still understand what they say, it's not like creole
The educated ones speak good conventional french

Arabic as a first language is spoken by more people, and if you count all Muslims, it can be understood to varying degrees by 2 billion people from Indonesia to Morocco

I guess French is the more "technical" language but English could be that as well.

You'd be surprised. Some of them (subsaharan mostly) are inintelligible and use words in bizarre ways.

Wouldn't that be similar to the French speaking Africans then?

Arabic as a unified language doesn't exist. Modern Standard Arabic is a foreign language to most Arabs like Latin is to Italians.

There are dozens of Arabic dialects that are virtually unintelligible to each other. Just google the videos of that dude that studied MSA on youtube that tried to ask for directions on a market in Cairo and failing in a spectacular fashion.

Like already demonstrated in this thread there actually are quite a few African countries where French proficiency is very widespread.

I thought the media is all unified from Morocco to Iraq?

arabic is first language literally only to levant and gulf people
you can't call the shit we talk arabic
it's very mixed and gramatically based on berber that's why new generations here are having big problems with learning arabic

This is very far from the truth.

They try to use proper French on TV and the radio, even tonning their accents down to be closer to a French one, but their everyday French is really messy.

A lot of people in Maghreb speak a Berber language as a first language though.

well here is an example
idk if westernes can hear any difference
but this is standard arabic:
youtube.com/watch?v=VJd4uDBV6P0
and this is for example tunisian
youtube.com/watch?v=Ni3_Fi66zsY

But wouldn't even that be more useful to a Tunisian than French would be? Unless you're moving to France/Belgium/Quebec/Switzerland, I would think that standard Arabic would be more important for the media, travelling for Hajj, and working in other Arab countries?

Not saying I doubt you or anything, but its puzzling why after independence French would still be important.

well i know both
french and arabic
and i even know german we studied it in high school

AAVE is a zouthern English dialect.

All of the Arabic world combined has less literary output than the number of books a country like Spain translates each year. Technological and scientific output are a joke as well.

Apart from exploiting natural resources and maybe tourism there are no globally significant economical sectors. Many countries in the MENA region are trading more with Europe than among each other.

What's puzzling about the fact that they continue to be dependent on foreign language skills?

Well, wouldn't English be more useful to communicate to Europeans than French? Most Europeans don't know French, but most would have some kind of understanding of English.

>Indians/Pakistanis know perfect English though?
Lol no.

Is knowledge of French more widespread in the Magreb than of English?

Who cares about most Europeans? There are also more French natives than English natives in Europe actually and people still have the tendency to prefer business in a language they know. Also, business ties between French and its former colonial states never ceased to exist in the first place and there are large expatriate communities existing in either countries that are working as intermediaries. There is also some inertia due to all the surrounding countries and their bordering states speaking the same business language.

You realize that virtually all of their university courses are conducted in French except of Arab linguistics and theology, right?

yes
only the new generation can speak 'a bit' of english
no one in my parents generation could speak it

Jow Forums is misleading cuz this site makes me think everyone knows perfect English around the world

well yeah physics and science are in french in maghreb
but only tunisia still teach mathematic in french algeria and morocco changed to arabic

I think Tunisia is the more Frenchified Maghreb country, right? How widespread is French in Morocco and Algeria? Do you know

I mean France isn’t exactly the richest country in Europe. Germany is, and most Germans doing business speak English

I know it comes off as being a spoiled Anglo but especially how poorly France is looked at in Africa, you’d think English would be more pushed

>but its puzzling why after independence French would still be important
The Francophonie is a whole other world. I'm part of it, and as shocking as it may seem, French is still somewhat of a lingua franca there. To North African countries, France is still the largest commerce partner, and a center of culture and education.
As a native French speaker who studied in France for a few years, I've lost count of the times I met North African students who came to France to study. It's a very casual thing, France is seen as the place to go for higher education. Of course, they could always learn English and go to an Anglo-Saxon country, but it wouldn't be the same. There's no "cultural closeness" between them and the UK, for example. A lot of their radio programs are broadcasted in French.

algerians use more french expressions than moroccan
it's like even those who can't speak french know a bit of it coz it become a part of the derja (maghrebi dialect)

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>I mean France isn’t exactly the richest country
What's your point? You are only doing business with the richest country? What kind of deranged logic is this? The economy of the whole Maghreb is still dwarved by the French one.

>but especially how poorly France is looked at in Africa
Boohoo history. No one cares, business is business.

Germany is only important economically and even then it's not like they're that much ahead of everyone, stop believing the meme that the EU is just Germany. France is the 2nd European economy and had way more presence than Germany in Africa. And France isn't looked at badly. Also you can't push a language out of nowhere if no one speak it.

Is the percentage higher among younger generations?

Can confirm I'm the heir to my country's biggest potato oligarchy

see the map

Everything science related is still taught in french here

Answer these pls

French is an official language and is compulsory from second grade up pretty much all literate people have a conversational level grasp of it and university educated ones depend on it completely unless they're studying theology/history/arabic/some other language
French colonization left its mark on the local language even since every technical and machine related word in our dialect is of french origin and even some other shit
It's losing its importance kind of since now english is being moved to be taught from 7th grade up but it's still very important, more people speak french than English obviously

i heard your maths is in arabic (i'm not talking about uni but high school)
yes literacy rate was like 30% 50 years ago now it's like 80%

Do people consume a lot of French media? Or people use Arabic Internet and watch Arab tv shows?

based khoya :^)

Btw, why does Algeria have stonge-age-style visa policies?

what is arabic internet?
well there are communities of maghrebis is facebook
arabic new channels are of course more popular
exluding the news in my house we don't watch anything arabic just tunisian sometimes sister watches turk series
when i was kid i remember we only used to watch french tv
m6 tf1 france 2 ....

>m6 tf1 france 2 ....
You don't watch those anymore?

just from time to time
it's like 80% of night shows are police series dad loves them

I'm excited for English to kill off French as a language.

Finally the mutt asking all these dumb questions reveals his true intentions

Didn't Bourguiba made tunisian derja official language?

garçon de soja

Everyone should speak English. There's no use for other languages to be around.

French's hold on Africa is weak so we can start there.

he tried he tried even to change to latin script
but he fucked up he even killed most of the berber languages that people used to speak
well nobody in tunisia speak the 'arabic' so it's natural to be the derja the officiel language but it isn't
>By the Tunisian independence in 1956, Tunisian Arabic was spoken only in coastal Tunisia while the other regions spoke Algerian Arabic, Libyan Arabic or several Berber dialects.[77][78] The profusion is from many factors including the length of time the country was inhabited, its long history as a migration land and the profusion of cultures that have inhabited it,[79][80] and the geographical length and diversification of the country, divided between mountain, forest, plain, coastal, island and desert areas.

By 2050 French is expected surpass Mandarin by number of native speakers.

this

>88670085
Et si nous faisions en sorte que tout le monde parle français à la place?

Attached: 1498344353555.png (500x500, 195K)

Latin language hierarchy in terms of usefulness

Spanish > Portuguese >>>>> French = Italian > Romanian

>parler à des macaques brésiliens
>utile

I always admired him (i'm unironically 1/8 tunisian with a tunisian surname even if i don't have any cultural connection to the country).

He tried to split your nation from the idiotic ''panarabism'' meme of that years that fucked up many ME states (and also Egypt). Just imagine a standarized derja with latin script ... almost another semithe language.

I think that your derja has some degree of old punic influence.

>I always admired him (i'm unironically 1/8 tunisian with a tunisian surname even if i don't have any cultural connection to the country).
Il bastardo italiano

it's a perfect example of a mixed language
grammatically berber
vocabulary is arabic, berber,punic,turk,itlaien and french

In colonial Tunisia there were more italians than french colonists.

Claudia Cardinale was an italian tunisian for example.

A standarized form splitted away from meme ''high arabic'' would be a gift for the entire Maghreb not only for you.

Panarabism is a very dangerous meme.

So what language did the whites use in Tunisia?

Attached: 1520624371524.png (2000x1139, 223K)

French i think

In Middle Ages up to XIX century also this language was used

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Lingua_Franca

average tunisian city back then
this desu i would liked if berber was the remaining language tho

Attached: 02566.png (717x185, 14K)

Meh I doubt its like Latin America. Most Africans still probably speak their native tongues more than French.

No one in Latin America speaks a native tongue

Are imazighen languages completely eradicated from Tunisia?

Btw you can even return to the good old times when all of you spoke this as first or second language:

youtube.com/watch?v=B2mK-0sAIps

think about british english vs ebonic. It gives you pretty much what you should expect.

>Se sabes
>Responde
>Se não sabes
>Cala-te
Fucking kek

Mediterranean Lingua Franca was badass, too bad totally disappeared

Apparently it basically turned into all the African creoles, especially the Portuguese in Cabo Verde. So it survives, in a shitty way.

nah there is
500 000 speakers but comparing it to 95% ethnic berber in tunisia it's sad imagine if we could preserve that language and the majority would talk it

Yep from a provençal-italian-portuguese pidgin into shitty bantoo bastard languages.

With the exception of Khaleeji Arabic, the rest of the arabic country speak Arabic mixed with one of the ancient languages or Berber. Levantine Arabic uses Aramaic loanwords and aramaic phonology. Egyptian Arabic uses coptic loanwords, coptic word order & grammar and phonology. Iraqi Arabic uses more persian than the other dialects as far as I know.

Classical/Standard Arabic ceased to exist a long time ago but retarded pan-arabists will keep on asserting that everyone in MENA knows Arabic.

The same is happening here with regional languages different from standard italian, they're slowly disappearing.

But they were all still romance languages, unlike amazigh (hamite) VS banu hilal arabic (semithic).

>the rest of the arabic country
*the rest of the arabic countries

I know that this is pretty retarded, but it makes me wish that the Latin languages evolved in the same way as Arabic. So that Spanish Italian, French etc. were all recognised as colloquial dialects and the official language of most of the world was Latin

Attached: LU.png (275x667, 35K)

I was told by my Lebanese friend everyone watches Egyptian TV's and movies and that is the de-facto "Standard" Arabic everyone knows.

He told me he can understand Moroccan Arabic and Iraqi Arabic without thinking about it

i don't agree levant arabic seems by far the closest to understand some khaleeji dialect are hard to understand like yemeni or saudi

banu hilal arabic only exist in western sahara and among bedouins i think

I too would like to have a gradient from Sagres to Sicily, but you couldn't have had politics on top of that and reach what we have now. Just like the church was good for aligning everyone's interest but is now fairly useless.

>I was told by my Lebanese friend everyone watches Egyptian TV's and movies and that is the de-facto "Standard" Arabic everyone knows.
I don't think generation Z or X of the arabic world know Egyptian Arabic that well because Egypt's movie industry has been declining for sometime now.

>yemeni or saudi
Yemeni might be hard but I don't think Saudi is as hard at all. Yemeni is probably hard because they pronounce stuff in a weird way and they used to have their own language(s) before adopting Arabic.