Why is Portugal getting EU gibs as high as ex-communist countries that left the stone age 25 years ago?

>They had good conditions because they colonised other countries. You see quite a few beautiful, extravagant buildings in Portugal but they're mostly in sub-par states because they're 400 years old

Well, the colonial past isn't that important, remember, that what eventually divided Europe economically up to this day was the Cold War. You know, in the 1800s Ireland was one of the poorest places in Europe, now it's one of the richest, despite not having any colonies, but being a colony for most of its history.

The countries that were lucky enough to stay on the western side during the cold war, had proper conditions to become rich. If they didn't use it properly, it's their fault.

Btw, we should remember, that both Portugal and Greece joined the EU in the 1980s, I can't even imagine how much money they must have got through the 1980s and 1990s, when they were the poorest EU countries and actually the only leeches, before Eastern Europe joined it. It's unbelievable that they are still poor.

rotfl, why there's always a meme country talking about us? we have literally destroyed our industry to became a third sector economy, several mistakes were made,and when we became rich, we received hundreds of thousands of immigrants from africa and other third world places.
Portugal is far away of the biggest econmy of europe, germany, you are right next to them, it's a surprise you are the shithole we see. Let's hope when you became rich, we, spain, france and other can send the non white immigrants we have received into poland

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Neither of them have good conditions.
Portugal is poor because it has no land borders except Spain, making trade difficult
Greece is poor because it is hard to traverse and keep running seeing as the land is rocky and they have a gorillion islands, meaning it's always going to be a bitch to maintain ifrastructure and military. added to that it's cut off from the balkans and is next to a historically aggressive larger neighbour.
Added to that both have had political instability and dictatorships since WW2

sure sure, "born in Portugal" like these

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immediately after ww2, Greece was rekt by a 3 and a half year civil war which killed well over 100k, and displacing over a million
then in the 60's and 70's they had a decade long military dictatorship, stifling the potential growth of the economy from marshall plan money
they never really saw a consistent length of time for neoliberal economic growth to take hold until the end of the 20th century, which can really fuck up a nation's development

>Portugal is far away of the biggest econmy of europe, germany, you are right next to them, it's a surprise you are the shithole we see.

We were the most destroyed country in every major European war + communism. If Poland had such conditions like Portugal had (no wars in its territory + no communism), we would be richer than Spain now. Before 1990 we couldn't even trade with any western country so being close to Germany wasn't any benefit for us.

Also, Portugal was awashed with EU money in the 1980s and 90s way more than us.

Just imagine

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>Portugal is poor because it has no land borders except Spain, making trade difficult

It's not fucking 19th century, you could say the same about Ireland, yet it's one of the richest countries on Earth. Such things like arable land or land borders don't matter much in 21st century

>Added to that both have had political instability and dictatorships since WW2

But it was their fault, they had dictatorships, because they chose these dictators or supported them, no one imposed a retarded economic system on them like Russians did to us.

>immediately after ww2, Greece was rekt by a 3 and a half year civil war which killed well over 100k, and displacing over a million

Mostly Macedonians (Slavs) who Greece didn't even want to have. And Greek cities and infrastructure weren't seriously damaged.

>these memes
Despite being in NATO, Portugal was under sanctions before the collapse of the dictatorship. The war for the colonies cost more than the colonies paid back. The point of having so much turf was to be able to run Portugal like an autarky: it had a huge internal maket, it got cheap exports from it's colonies because and could dump it's imports in those colonies without having outside competition. When the empire broke up, Portugal just wasn't ready for international markets. It couldn't bully other countries for cheap imports, and it couldn't compete with the better exportators. A lot of whites from the colonies were also forced back to Portugal as paupers.

>If Poland had such conditions like Portugal had

What are you talking dude, Portugal is a peripheral european country, with no natural resources, far away of the biggest econmies of europe. After the Salazar fall, we had indeed commies in power, banks nationalized, rich families going away, and we were ruled by insane socialists that have opened the borders to unskilled blacks and other non europeans tthat came to live here and make our salries even worse. It's a miracle that we are onr of the richest countries of the world (top 25)

>The war for the colonies cost more than the colonies paid back.

Again, that's your fault. You could just gave up like the UK did and give them independence, no one forced you to fight for these colonies.

And countries like Ireland or some eastern European states never had any colonies yet theyre already richer than Portugal.

>What are you talking dude, Portugal is a peripheral european country, with no natural resources, far away of the biggest econmies of europe.

Do Irish or Finnish people complain about it?

>After the Salazar fall, we had indeed commies in power, banks nationalized, rich families going away, and we were ruled by insane socialists that have opened the borders to unskilled blacks and other non europeans tthat came to live here and make our salries even worse.

You don't know what communism is, what you describe is light socialism.

>Mentioning Ireland without having clue,

Ireland is fiscal paradise for companies since the 80's,and everybody knows that.

>You don't know what communism is, what you describe is light socialism.
Every time...

>You don't know what communism is

And you know what is non white immigration? do you know whopays for their gibs, their houses, their education, the safety issues, all the weight in our social security? you will see soon, just wait, you will enjoy.

>hard to traverse
>a gorillion islands
>cut off from neighbors
>historically aggressive larger neighbor
Finland comes to mind that fits those and they are doing pretty okay.

>Again, that's your fault. You could just gave up like the UK did and give them independence, no one forced you to fight for these colonies.
Why are you saying that is our fault? We didn't vote for the war. We were under a dictatorship. The war and the dictatoship ended on the same day.
>And countries like Ireland or some eastern European states never had any colonies yet theyre already richer than Portugal.
I already explained to you that colonies didn't make us richer in the 20th century, they cost us money and human lives, and the colonial kept Portugal from developing into a regular 20th century western liberal capitalist country. We didn't even have a highly-educated workforce like the eastern bloc had, because the regime liked it's people to remain like dull, quiet peasants.

>And you know what is non white immigration? do you know whopays for their gibs, their houses, their education, the safety issues, all the weight in our social security? you will see soon, just wait, you will enjoy.

They have no ideia.

I say we nuke Luxembourg.

>It's not fucking 19th century, you could say the same about Ireland, yet it's one of the richest countries on Earth.
Ireland, which is a short ferry away from one of the world's biggest economies and shares an unmanned land border with a portion of it.
>Such things like arable land or land borders don't matter much in 21st century
Yes they do, if a country has high trade costs, no opportunity for constant land based trade and is having to import the majority of it's core foods it's obviously going to have an impact on it's economy.

>germapoors

Ah yes, the good ol' "Poland would have been paradise if it wasn't for the fockin Russians" argument

Even if we make enough amounts of money all our politicians eat it up and wipe their fat crusty asses with it.

same in Spain. A lot of our money goes to swiss banks. Fuck corruption.

meh

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it's our superior asian genes, brother
meds are born lazy so they will never be like us :)

It's not a matter of hours of work, it's a matter of gross value added

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Yeah but it's no consolation to be less corrupt than most of those contries.
Being almost as corrupt as china isn't a great sign of progress for a democratic state like Spain.

tbf, the image of the political class improved recently, with the proseccution of former-pm socrates and the expansionary budget consolidation

>spain works more hours per year than germany

waaat imposiburu

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efficiency

Not that tho, the difference is that when germans produce a BMW spain or portugal produce 1000 suits (clothing). it's gross value added difference

Yeah, in Spain people who work in official jobs for the state are lazy as fuck. They just sign in in the morning and go to the bar all day.
People spend all day in the office not doing much.

In northern countries people work less hours but get shit done, have dinner early and make the most of the afternoon.

>However, by the end of the 19th century the illiteracy rate was over 80 percent and higher education was reserved for a small percentage of the population. 68.1 percent of Portugal's population was still classified as illiterate by the 1930 census.
>The basic literacy rate of the Portuguese population is 95.7% (97.1% male, 94.4% female).[1] According to INE (Portuguese Institute for National Statistics), only 3.7 million Portuguese workers (67% of the working active population) completed basic education (81% of the working population attained the lower basic level of education and 12% attained the intermediate level of education).[2]
The portuguese were kept stupid and docile for very long.

i bet 1 german worker is more efficent than 3 potugalians combined

In what terms? read about how portuguese workers are knowed everywhere (very good and hard workers), i would say is not a matter of efficiency, but a matter of

In general work efficiency and getting things done.

This is proof of the extremely low productivity of Mexican, Korean, Greek, Portuguese etc workers.

A mexican sitting on a plastic chair talking about burritos with co-worker Pablo while making fish nets isnt the pinnacle of innovation.

Workers in northern europe are innovative and productive, and thus our countries are richer.

>prosecution of pm Sócrates
you mean a slap on the wrist? And a luxurious treatment in prison? lol

>Workers in northern europe are innovative and productive, and thus our countries are richer.

yes yes, they start to become like that in the past century. before they were lazy, and had extreme low productivity, no innovation.
lmao
economic conjunctures
>1840

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Manuel this is what you think. not what happens. Its always the same thing everywhere. t.friegaplatos

These are prejudices, Portuguese people are actually very studious and hard working in my experience

Maybe they are not the richest in Europe but the life there is good.

It's the same here actually save for very few people
and you get rude service by old fat entitled women

Poland has direct land trade exchanges with Germany,our main fucking trade partner is Spain.

>1840

wasn't that in the colonial era where you basically had millions of slaves accross the world?

Why shit on Portugal and not Luxembourg Polaskiczczcz?

Because Luxembourg is not a real nation.

Also, since there are no Luxembourgish anons here, I won't get butthurt responses.

RARE

We actually border poor east Germany. Rich Bavaria is far away

you don't shit about Mexico, people work really hard there.

ask to americans about countruction workers from Mexico in their country

>the image of the political class improved recently
have you been hiding under a rock or something, maninho? oh, I get it, you're a public worker

What kind of foreign force installed the dictatorship in Portugal?

Salazar had genuine support among Portuguese people, so did the colonial war (at the beginning). You can't deny it. Don't try to be like Germans with their

>b-but evil Hitler came from Mars and subdued our people so we had no say about it, also my grandfather was in anti-Nazi resistance

Nah.

Portuguese workers are not productive in Portugal because Portugal doesn't have productive industry.

We do quite alright in countries with better conditions, and as far as I've heard, we're well regarded in terms of actual commitment to a job. Even the frogs that hate our diaspora there (rightfully, Portuguese in France are utter cunts) usually have nothing bad to say about our hard work.

Our conditions within the european context have never been great. It was for that same reason that we ventured into the sea at some point in history. Our history at its core has always been about being self-sufficient. Any major war or plague in Europe would always wreck our shit through hunger and disease and we'd be at the end of the foreign help queue because we're far from everyone and got Spain in the middle. That is why we colonized distant and sparsely populated overseas lands. We developed all that land by ourselves. Hell, Luanda and Maputo were more developed than Lisbon or Porto in the 50s and now, without our rule, they're far behind and turned into complete shitholes.

>And countries like Ireland or some eastern European states never had any colonies yet theyre already richer than Portugal.
Again, we developed the colonies more than we did the mainland. Which is why we didn't want to give them up so easily as England or France did. Plus, we had many of our own people living in those colonies. You'll find plenty of portuguese people between their 40s and 70s who were born and grew up in Angola or Mozambique, and I'm not talking of black people.

>Salazar had genuine support among Portuguese people
Only if you were middle-class or rich. Turns out most people were poor and lacked some sort of education and could not fuss about their problems to the government. Salazar was not as popular as you think. Read about Humberto Delgado.

>Salazar was not as popular as you think.

He was,but you have to understand also that the Salazar rule, was the period in our history where more people left illiteracy, were built more schools and universities, before of that it was much worse. The problem came from the xix century

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Your 4 hour daily siesta is counted as "working hours".

>go to work
>be efficient for 7.5 hours
>go home

That's the civilized way.

...

He wasn't a populist. People didn't like being under his rule, because they couldn't complain about their problems. Era o come e cala.

>you have to understand also that the Salazar rule, was the period in our history where more people left illiteracy, were built more schools and universities
there's no denying that, but do you think the average zé would give a shit about those things? he just wanted to feed his family and he couldn't

>If any eastern European country had the same conditions in 1945-90 like Greece or Portugal, it would be a major economic power in Europe now.

I highly doubt it lmao

>meme country
Poland is one of the oldest countries in Europe.

They would be in the exact same situation as they are. Slavic mindset likes to fantasize a lot but do very little.

Finns are Eastern European.
There were moments in which England was a complete backwater shithole compared to Poland or Czechia.

We already did it a year ago, those numbers are outdated, we are part of the big boys, we are NET contributors.

>another nation is inferiour
t. nazi

BIG
SPANISH
MATADOR

Poland is 29 years old

I knew you have high HIV rates, but I didn't know it affects the fucking thinking.

>ask to americans about countruction workers from Mexico in their country
They need to go back, because they are undercutting our labor laws. That's what I think of them.

wha?
Yes very high lul

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Its counted in regions gdp per capita so they have probably a lot of poor regions

Pls stop putting my country with yours in one sentence as a argument

Its very annoying and we are not a like you

Yeah, but that money needs to invested wisely to build an economy based on manufacturing and later financing and services. Portugal did not do that.

Anybody can be a thief. Going "legit" rich takes skills.

Poland is europe's cumdumpster.From ottomans to the partitions to absolute annexation you are cucks

>cryptogerman doesn't want to be lumped in with Boland

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You're stupid as shit. You're just like us. Genetically you're Slavic. Keep the germanicshit fantasies to a minimum

You are fucking shitskins admixed with Negroes. Genes don't lie.

>HURR DURR

You are. More mixed than south shitalians. And that says something.

No we are not, there are a lot of differences between us

We are atheist, liberal to gays, drugs etc. love peace and non conflict

You are religious, conservative, angry vodka drinking nation proud about every shit and attention whoring everywhere

Blah blah. Fucking snowflake

All of that money goes down the black hole of corruption.
You might as well burn it.

We are also better looking, funny, smart and humble

>HURR DURR

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Fun fact : poortugese people are literally black

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Henry's come to fuck my wife!

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oh really? and get get that from where?from your ass? poolish ((intelectuals))
ahahhaha Poland is changing words with Portugal, what's gonna be next?

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>that one fucking edgelord complaining and preaching about "SALAZAR WAS OUR KING! HEIL SALAZAR"

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stop bullying bortugal
they are good boys

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based & redpilled. Pooland is poop

Wtf? Where are our gibs? Gibs me.

>we
>our

that's the difference - Portuguese people could decide their fate on their own - they could choose whether they wanted to be ruled by a dictator or democratic government, whether they wanted to fight for colonies or give them up etc. Poland didn't have such a possibility, because our fate was in hands of our powerful neighbors.

South Korea became a rich and thriving country only when their both neighbors calmed down a bit and stopped ruining the country. Just like in Poland, we've had the first period of relative peace in Central-Eastern Europe for the last 500 years and it started only in 1990. And no war was wanted or started by Poles, we were puppets of the most powerful world empires like Germany and Russia.

When Poland has a little peace, it does good. When Portugal has a little peace, it gets into bigger troubles, that's the difference between us.

don't forget the mssive debt caused by the PREC reign of terror & early democratic mending, the misterious disapearence of gold from the reserves or the currency sheninigans