Ah yes, this must be the vibrant islamic culture i've been hearing so much about

So she should be. Abortion is murder. The child didn't choose its means of conception.

>Yeah incest is only happen on islamic country

Incest occurs abundantly in the Bible.
Lot himself committed incest in the Christian version of the story.
The western “man” knows not of his own faith, and he seeks to find fault in the Muslims’ based on the actions of few dumb men.
What if the child has a 100% chance of being still-born or severely impaired due to genetic disease?

Never said incest, you pedo.

Das rayciss im calling your local hate crime unit bong boy

So conservative and at a peaceful time what a peaceful religion that embraces feminist values. I don't lknkw why we haven't all embraced Islam. Only predjudice shitlords criticize this wonderful religion.

Its a pro-rapist culture designed to favor rapists and enable rapists to breed the most.

It's a pro-rape culture explicitly designed to weed out and target those who have a problem with it, enhacning the level of evil and dysfunction in any given society.

>larping this hard

Yes?

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>or Slavs
Yes please. I didn't choose africans since a lot of that fuckery comes from pre Christian religious practices and traditional non religious b.s.

>Yeah incest is only happen on islamic country
Mostly and even Christian nutjobs here are fine with abortion for incest because even they view it as heinous.

God impregnated Mary when she was 12 in Christianity
I could bring up a lot more about how the Israelites OK’d pedo stuff but I won’t
It shouldn’t matter, if they’re Christians and they do something wrong, and I blame Christianity or Christian culture for it I’d be doing the same thing as OP
But I’m a reasonable guy, so I wouldn’t do that

>God impregnated Mary when she was 12 in Christianity
Which is after she menstruated, which physically makes her an adult. This is how the majority of cultures around the world functioned until we started studying psychology and decided that the underage cannot meaningfully consent. Not that consent mattered in arranged marriages. This is also why Jewish boys are considered adults after their Bar Mitzvah (13 years) by the way.

Meanwhile, Muhammad had sex with Aisha when she was 9. According to the Islamic sources themselves* Aisha had not yet menstruated at that age. This means that by the standards of his own society, Muhammad was a pedophile.

*quranx.com/Hadith/Bukhari/USC-MSA/Volume-8/Book-73/Hadith-151/
Here's your source. This is a Sahih hadith mind you, which makes it one of the most reliable of all the hadith. This basically means that denying the truth of this hadith makes you an infidel and could cost you your head.

>It shouldn’t matter, if they’re Christians and they do something wrong, and I blame Christianity or Christian culture for it I’d be doing the same thing as OP
If you can bring up Biblical citations that offer a plausible cause for those actions you're free to bring up Christian culture as a cause.

>According to the Islamic sources themselves* Aisha had not yet menstruated at that age.
Source needed
The marriage happened when it happened because that was when she menstruated.

>Source needed
I gave you the fucking source.

>The marriage happened when it happened because that was when she menstruated.
Of course. Muhammad would enter Aisha's dwelling and her friends would leave before she had menstruated, but they did not fuck when they menstruated. Your theory not only means the aforementioned Sahih hadith is wrong...
quranx.com/Hadith/Bukhari/USC-MSA/Volume-7/Book-62/Hadith-88/
... but also that Aisha somehow menstruated before her 9th birthday.

Islam is a fucking joke and its defenders have to wriggle itself into all kinds of retarded positions to justify the degeneracy of their false prophet. The fact that you're so embarrased about this shows that you have a more functional moral compass than the man you call a prophet.

He gave you the fucking page of the shit religion your shitty pedophilia adventures religion you idiot.

>all these western flags unnironically defending this
the STATE of of the """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""western""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""' world

Oh and here are some sources from the actual bible
>And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves
>Deuteronomy 22:28-29 New International Version (NIV)

>28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

>
That source doesn’t say what you claim it says
The prophet knew Aisha before she was 9. Aisha was the daughter of Abu bakr, and therefore he knew her well.

Brazil is part of the western world.

>Whataboutism
>I don't know what consumating a marriage means

>doesn’t respond to bible quotes
>doesn’t understand that the prophet knew Aisha and abu bakr long before marriage
>no more arguments
I bet you’re one of those people who just share cherrypicked bible quotes about forgiveness or love on Facebook all the while knowing nothing about the Bible and all the harsh reality of it. I doubt you can even read/understand any Hebrew or Aramaic Greek, I’d wager you’ve never even read he Old Testament or even New Testament in its entirety.

>YOU HAVE TO BE A CHRISTIAN
hahahaha
AHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAH
hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahha

I'm not responding to the bible quotes because they're not relevant to the conversation. You're deflecting here.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

>doesn’t understand that the prophet knew Aisha and abu bakr long before marriage
I do, you fucking idiot. That's why I take no offense to the fact that Muhammad married Aisha at age six. My problem is that he consumated the marriage (read: he fucked her) at age 9, with the hadith explicitly stating she did not menstruate at the time.

So are you going to keep deflecting or face the facts?

Source?

>Africans
ah yes 60 IQ monkeys will surely prove how Christianity is just as bad as Islam

they’re about pedo and nicest stuff which is relevant here
Not responding speaks volumes about yourself. You’re honestly lying to yourself if you believe the facade you’re spewing about both faiths.
>whataboutism
Brainlet. These aren’t red-herrings.
>that Hadith
The point is that Hadith doesn’t say she was 9 when she was playing with dolls.
Even if it did I could just reject it and question its sihha, only the Quran is binding upon me.
But again it doesn’t even say she was 9 playing with dolls so I don’t have to.
Maybe if Europe hadn’t raped and plundered Africa for centuries, committing countless genocides, they’d have higher IQ’s and be more developed.

>It shouldn’t matter,
Lol. You just dont have any examples

>poles beat Chilean man for looking Arab
Wtf why are Christians so racist
>Africans burn baby alive for being possessed
Wtf why are Christians so evil
>Mexican cartel kills thousands a year
Wtf why are Christians promoting drugs and killing people

You see how this works?

>they’re about pedo and nicest stuff which is relevant here
It's still a limp "y-you too" argument that adds nothing to the discussion. Even if every religion in the world explicitly encouraged pedophilia, this doesn't change the fact that Muhammad was a pedophile.

>The point is that Hadith doesn’t say she was 9 when she was playing with dolls.
Correct.
quranx.com/Hadith/Muslim/USC-MSA/Book-8/Hadith-3311/
This one does, though.

>But again it doesn’t even say she was 9 playing with dolls so I don’t have to.
I hate to disappoint you, but...

What you now have to argue is that during the 9th year of Aisha's life, the following series of events passed:
>Aisha became 9
>She had not menstruated, as evidenced by the fact that she still played with dolls
>She was taken to Muhammad's house before she menstruated, along with her dolls
>Muhammad waited, rather than instantly consumating the marriage
>At some point during her 9TH YEAR Aisha started menstruating
>Muhammad explicitly only fucked her after menstruating
>Nobody bothered to note the marriage was consumated after Aisha menstruated
>Even though the authors of the Hadith followed Muhammad's life so autistically, they even passed down that he peed sitting down like a girl (sunnah.com/urn/1000290)
Come the fuck on, man.

This is what happens when a country genocides its left. Indonesians can now choose between neoliberals dependent on local oligarchs and Islamists. All of them right-wing of course. Fruits of AmeriKKKan foreign policy.

Muslim prophet was pedophile
Take your tu quoque and shove it up your ass

jacobinmag.com/2018/06/killing-season-geoffrey-robinson-indonesia-communist-party-massacre
jacobinmag.com/2018/07/indonesia-elections-joko-widodo-capitalist-class

>It's still a limp "y-you too
A wise man once said “remove the log from thine own eye before you look for sawdust in mine eye”.
Accusing someone of something you’re guilty of, regardless of whether or not the accused is guilty is stupid. One needs to establish their own innocence before accusing others.
>those green texts
Who knows, that may have happened, no one was in the prophet’s bedroom writing everything down. You’re just inferring things from hadiths and using that to discredit/reject Islam.
It’s so derivative and stupid, honestly why you wouldn’t just go to the Quran and see what it says about rape or incest and everything else pertinent in OP’s story is beyond me.

Why are indonesians so ugly?

>A wise man once said “remove the log from thine own eye before you look for sawdust in mine eye”.
Good thing I never accused you of anything, huh?

>One needs to establish their own innocence before accusing others.
Not really. We were discussing Muhammad, I have offered sufficient evidence that he was a pedophile and you deflect by throwing around biblical citations. So by your standards... I must now prove that I'm not a pedophile?

>Who knows, that may have happened, no one was in the prophet’s bedroom writing everything down.
Who's to say? The authors of the hadith did brag about how Muhammad fucked all 9 of his wives every night.
sunnah.com/bukhari/67
>The Prophet (ﷺ) used to go round (have sexual relations with) all his wives in one night, and he had nine wives.

sunnah.com/bukhari/5/21
>Anas bin Malik said, "The Prophet (ﷺ) used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet (ﷺ) the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet (ﷺ) was given the strength of thirty (men)." And Sa`id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven).

We know so much about Muhammad's sexual life already, between that and him pissing like a girl why did nobody bother to write down that he only fucked Aisha after she menstruated? When that detail is actually fucking important, unlike how often Muhammad fucked his wives or in what position he pissed?

>You’re just inferring things from hadiths
Wrong. I'm stating the facts and then inferring possible counterarguments, then rejecting those potential counterarguments beforehand. If you have other arguments, or if my pre-emptive debunking of your arguments is somehow wrong, feel free to enlighten me. If not, acknowledge Muhammad was a pedo and shut up.

What a horrible story, that's something what sounds like it could be straight out of england!

You’re literally linking me to entire chapters/books of Bhukari.
>fucked all nine wives
>had sexual potency
Like how Solomon fucked his hundreds wives?
I have no idea which Hadith you’re referring to (you linked an entire book, either that or I’m too dumb to understand how sunnah dot com’s UI works) but how can you accuse me of whataboutism when you’re just pulling out random hadiths that you took exception to (log) and I’m quoting pertinent bible quotes (sawdust).
I still haven’t seen you give me one quran quote, while I give you bible quotes (which you ignore).

uhh

>You’re literally linking me to entire chapters/books of Bhukari.
Which is why I quote the passages I'm referring to. Have you ever heard of CTRL + F?

>Like how Solomon fucked his hundreds wives?
1. In a single night?
2. Maybe these two situations would be comparable if it was stated that Solomon consumated a marriage with a 9 year old girl and there was not a single line that stated the girl had already ovulated. My argument isn't that Muhammad being a sex addict is somehow bad (it is, but that's a diffferent point altogether), my point is that if we know so many details about Muhammad's sex life then you can't really make a plausible case that something like Muhammad waiting for Aisha's ovulation would be glossed over. It's just too unlikely, given what we know about both Muhammad and female biology in general (9 year olds ovulating is highly exceptional).

>I still haven’t seen you give me one quran quote
Because the Qu'ran doesn't describe Muhammad's life, the Hadith do. This is basic knowledge of Islam. This is like asking me to recall the life of Jesus using only the Five Laws of Moses.

>and I’m quoting pertinent bible quotes (sawdust).
You're deflecting. We can discuss your little bible quote after we've finished our discussion on Muhammad. Let's not derail the discussion just because it makes you feel uncomfortable.

>In a single night?
Here’s a Hadith for you since you seem to be fond of them
>Sulayman, the son of Dawud, said, ‘Tonight I will sleep with seventy ladies each of whom will conceive a child who will be a knight fighting for Allah’s Cause.’ His companion said, ‘If Allah wills.’ But Sulayman did not say so, therefore none of those women got pregnant except one who gave birth to a half-child.”
You don’t seem to respond to bible quotes but here are some on Solomon
>Nevertheless, Solomon held fast to them in love. 3 He had seven hundred wives of royal birth and three hundred concubines, and his wives led him astray.
And you complain of muhammad’s Sex life?
>9 year old ovulating
That was the whole point of not consummating when the contract was made at 6; it those are the hadiths you believe.
There are hadiths that imply she was older, why don’t you believe those instead?
>Quran doesn’t talk about prophet’s sex life
Why so infatuated with it? This thread is about rape/incest, the Quran talks about that, you brought up this Aisha stuff and now that’s all you want to talk about because you know that’s all you have.
>we’lll talk about bible quotes later
It’s 1:15 am in the Netherlands
You’ll go to bed, never getting off this Aisha business, because you don’t want to address the Bible quotes.
If someone quoted the word of Allah I’d respond to it immediately, it’s a matter of faith that I hold the Quran in high esteem, it should be the same for Christians and the Bible.

BASED

>Here’s a Hadith for you since you seem to be fond of them
So?
>Solomon having seven hundred wives
Again, so? What does all this change about Muhammad being a pedo?
>That was the whole point of not consummating when the contract was made at 6;
Then why did Aisha move in with Muhammad when she was still playing with dolls, ie. not ovulating?
>Why so infatuated with it?
You clearly do not understand my argument. I am saying that if Muhammad had waited until Aisha had ovulated, we would've known. I base this on the extraordinary detail the Hadith pay to Muhammad's sex life. Something like this would not be skipped over in favor of Muhammad peeing like a girl.
>It’s 1:15 am in the Netherlands
Correct.
>because you don’t want to address the Bible quotes.
You know what, I'm going to sleep soon so I'm going to do you a little favor. I'll actually adress the charge and not avoid it like a little bitch unlike someone in this thread.
>it’s a matter of faith that I hold the Quran in high esteem
You clearly do not hold the Hadith in high esteem though. Back in your desert shithole you could be killed for that.

Next post I prove how you're wrong about not just one but two religions. Sad!

So let me get one thing straight here: the charge is that these two quotes somehow prove Moses ordered or at least condoned pedophilia.
1. Nothing about these quotes implies pedophilia. You probably just googled some controversial citations that are somewhat sexual. Nothing about pedophilia though unless you want to enlighten us about it (pro-tip, you won't).
2. Deuteronomy here actually contradicts what you state. It gives a punishment for raping a virgin. If you rape a married woman, you're killed. If you rape an unmarried woman -and thereby make her unfit for marriage- you must first pay her father a dowry (keep in mind that normally the father of the bride pays a dowry to the father of the groom in order to compensate his family for the lost labor, in the instance of rape it is reversed) and then marry the woman without the possibility for divorce. What this factually means is that he for the rest of his life has to take care of her.
3. Numbers 31 is preceeded by... surprise surprise, Numbers 25 (and 26-30). The context here is that the Midianites were ordered to be driven out of the land of Canaan, as they had grown to corrupt to be tolerated (this is also why Moses and co. spent so long in the desert, not because they couldn't figure out where to go but because the natives of the promised land had not yet grown corrupt enough). In numbers 25 the smiting of the Midianites had been ordered. In numbers 31 Moses was surprised/angered to have seen the women were kept alive.
cont.

He therefore ordered that all the adults, including the women, be executed for their corruption. He then ordered the execution of the boys, for they would most likely see it as their obligation to avenge their fathers (for another example in antiquity, see Hannibal's blood oath to never make peace with the Romans due to what they did to his father). As for the girls, what's your complaint here? That the ones who were neither corrupted nor likely to raise their arms against Israel in the future weren't killed?

But now I'm justifying shit I don't need to justify because NONE OF THIS IN ANY WAY IMPLIES ANY SORT OF PEDOPHILIA. The "keeping them for themselves" part may seem to imply that, if you squint really hard and IGNORE THE PASSAGE OF DEUTERONOMY YOU YOURSELF POSTED?

I have gone above and beyond. You have done nothing but deflect and now I've flayed one of your deflections in much more detail than was neccessary. Not that you will care, you will still insist that somehow the hadith don't say what the hadith say. Much in the same way how a passage that punishes rapists somehow approves of rape.

Guys muslims are subbumans no need to discuss it at such length

>this thread is about pedophilia
It’s not, you turned it into that
Here are Bible quote of Moses telling the Israelites to take “women children”
>Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
>But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself.
>Hadith on sex
Again, why not believe the Hadith that imply she was older?
>do not hold Hadith in high esteem
Not all of them, each Hadith comes with a line of succession saying how probable it is to be authentic. Hadith often contradict each other (as is the case with Aisha’s age), I obviously can’t believe all of them, and no one does.
>ost labor, in the instance of rape it is reversed) and then marry the woman without the possibility for divorce. What this factually means is that he for the rest of his life has to take care of her.
Look at it through the eyes of the girl. You get raped, you have to live with your rapist for the rest of your life.
>Moses quote doesn’t count because it’s not explicitly about pedophilia
So it’s okay to take a nation’s “women children”? Children means children, underage.
And you missed the Lot committing incest one.

So?

Pick a side fucker.

no pedo but that girl is mad cute

>Again, why not believe the Hadith that imply she was older?
Because the Hadith specifically state her age at the consumation of marriage? For the third time, do you know what consumation means?

>each Hadith comes with a line of succession saying how probable it is to be authentic.
Every hadith I cited was Sahih. It literally doesn't get more reliable than that according to Islamic histography. If the hadith I cited cannot be trusted, none of the hadith can.

>Look at it through the eyes of the girl.
Through contemporary eyes or Western eyes?
>You get raped, you have to live with your rapist for the rest of your life.
As opposed to being unmarriable, becoming an old woman and starving because there are no children to take care of you? You do realize that for most of human history marriages were formed with mostly material benefits in mind, right? "You make me feel nice" is something that started playing the main role in the 19th century at earliest.
>So it’s okay to take a nation’s “women children”?
In the context of a society that's objectively corrupt, degenerate and sinful it is indeed correct to absorb into your own society the innocent children who are not likely to raise up arms against you, yes. Unless you want to argue that the girls had to be killed too.

>And you missed the Lot committing incest one.
You mean the part where his daughters got him drunk and raped him? Because they feared not being able to get children otherwise due to the circumstances? Which was a really shit deal given the facts I explained earlier? Yes Lot's daughters were in the wrong, but that's the whole fucking point. Lot wasn't on the other hand, he was made drunk.

lmao why the actual fuck is that yank shilling so hard for islam on the internet
on Jow Forums.org of all possible websites

Not him but there's shilling and then there's not putting up with the Russian disinformation campaigns. He's doing God's work and you should as well

I’m on the side of peace-loving humans consummation
Yes, either fucking to make a marriage legit or just bringing something to completion
I know we’re talking about the first one
>because the Hadith specifically state her age
Other Hadith imply she was older, you’d have to prove that they aren’t legit.
>sahih
You can have a Hadith from sahih Bukhari or Muslim that has daif support
There are sahih Hadith that differs from one another
The word sahih can mean multiple things; in Urdu it’s pften confused with sayheeh which means correct and which is why some people confuse that.
>living with rapist is ok because of the context
Why didn’t God change the society to be accepting of rape victims through Moses or some other prophet? He is God after all
>lot was raped
Why was he drinking in the first place? Why did Noah drink wine? Drinking isn’t allowed
I could be wrong but I don’t think the daughters spiked his drink, I’ll have to reread that chapter or whatever

>not putting up with the Russian disinformation campaigns
>He's doing God's work

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If someone speaks ill of my people or faith (unironically), I must defend them and clear up misconceptions.
In my eyes you’re just products of an environment that’s made you think like this.

Ivan, out

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>speaks ill of my people or faith
so you're a muslim then

>asking why someone is shilling for Islam online = being a Russian disinformation campaigner

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>Russian logic

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>yank shitposter """humour"""

>Russian agents

1000%
But my ameribro is right, there’s Russian disinformation trying to get western Christians and western/eastern Muslims against one another in their lust for power.

what you're saying doesn't make any sense but it's also not funny so I'm not sure why you're bothering

>western Christians
Never said I was a christian

Get the fuck out Russian dog. You and your kind will be dealt with properly

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I never said you were

Jow Forums - Islamic Theology

Not surprising. A faith whose followers hijack airplanes and crash them into office buildings is capable of anything.

shouldve been quicker

wrong

Some idiotic American claimed this country was better than China yesterday

He's right, aborting Serbs is god's justice.