Where did France and the UK fuck up? They supposedly "won" WWII and compared to Germany suffered far less physical damage and deaths, yet they fell behind Germany in every metric (economy, quality of life, even safety or education)
What gives? Why did the UK drop so badly, when it used to rival Switzerland in GDP per capita? How the fuck did tiny countries like Denmark and Sweden, desolate and cold, improve so much and outperform the two ex superpowers of Europe? What the fuck was France and Britain doing?
It all went wrong when Britain and France decided to let WW2 happen. There were many things they could've done; namely, stop being such lenient cowards in their treatment of Germany. Had they listened to Ferdinand Foch(pic related), the French general who led the Hundred Days Offensive and wanted to dismantle Germany into several client states each administered by a great power with the Treaty of Versailles, they could've prevented WW2. Had Daladier not listened to Chamberlain and let Germany annex Sudetenland, Hitler wouldn't have been as bold in his moves, and maybe he would have reconsidered declaring war on Poland. But WW2 happened, Britain and France both lost their empires and ethnic nationalism became a prohibited ideology, even though it is natural to identify with those who share your paternal blood and your language.
Léon Degrelle, a Walloon Nazi supporter had some pretty great things to say about this period. I won't bother translating it though; learn French. youtube.com/watch?v=47JRajorwAI
>I won't bother translating it though; learn French. faggot
Hunter White
Short form translation: He regrets that the nazi ideology of white supremacy and a unified Europe failed, the victors [of WWII] have ruined the world, causing the death of morality and family, ushering in a sad age of consumerism. He will fight to the end in hopes that the nazi vision will be reborn.
Brayden Bennett
>dismantle Germany into several client states each administered by a great power and you think things like this would have worked out in the long run?
I blame the UK for not letting Germany reaching its position as the dominant power in central Europe
Ian Long
what a faggot gotta take the Kaiserpill that Germany should've won WW1, not WW2 but Wilhelm II was too much of a faggot to make that happen
"And when I recapitulate, I only have one feeling, one of immense regret, regret that we didn't succeed, that we didn't succeed in creating this European world that was the master of the universe forever, that ensured to the White Race, the first of the races, the great domination of the spirit. And when we see what's on the other side, what thirty years of victory of the others gave us, this anarchy in the world, this stampede of the White world, this desertion through the universe; when we see in our own countries the decomposition of morals, the downfall of the fatherland, the downfall of the family, the downfall of the social order; when we see this appetite for material goods that succeeded to the great flame of ideals that enlivened us, well, really, between the two we had chosen the right side. This little miserable Europe, with its scrimpy single market can't bring happiness to men. Consumerism is rotting humanity instead of improving it, so we dreamed of something grandiose, and we only have one wish, that this spirit re-emerges, and with all my power and until the last moment of my existence, I will fight for this, for what once was our battle and our martyrdom is one day..."
Then the music gets too loud at the end and I can't make out the last word. But here you go.
Yes, it would have worked. There were more than enough great powers to keep you in chains.
>keep you in chains. didn't work after ww1 didn't work after ww2
Cooper Edwards
thanks
Tyler White
It didn't work because the Treaty of Versailles was too lenient. Ferdinand Foch is actually quoted as saying "This isn't a peace. This is an armistice for twenty years." and he was posthumously proven right.
Adam Carter
problem were more internal reasons in Germany
Luke Morales
>France winning WWII >winning WWII >France Well you got that wrong didn't you
Nicholas Davis
Germans didn't want it, the US didn't want it and the UK didn't want France to become the dominant power in Europe
That's what I mean by spineless leniency. France, by the 20th century, was purely democratic and wouldn't have gone against the interests of the UK even as the dominant continental power. Focusing on dismantling Germany should have been the priority. But craven British decisions and French tendency to mindlessly abide by them ultimately led to WW2.
Dominic Martinez
based frog
Lucas Nelson
The UK got cucked hard by the US and France never was more powerful than Germany
Robert Gomez
all you would've had to to was actually enforce the Treaty of Versailles, it was definitely harsh enough If you did that and prevent a dictator like Hitler from rearming in the first place, Germany would've solved its internal problems eventually, since Hitler wouldn't have been able to deflect from his disastrous domestic policies by starting a war There wouldn't have been the need for dismantling Germany
he was merely stating facts, not sure he's the one butthurt here uezs
Ethan Rivera
They let themselves be dragged into a war started by bloodthirsty, war-mongering Poland instead of joining us in defeated the Polish menace once and for all.
Will the world ever know peace as long as Poland exists? Doubtful.
it was won by the combined effort of the USSR, US and the UK. he's not wrong with his (if it's him) first post either. Had the ToV been enforced properly there would've been no way for Germany to start WW2.
If he's talking about dismantling Germany he's definetly still butthurt
Brandon Lewis
WW2 was not won by UK and France, Japan won it for the allies when they were dumb enough to bring USA ONCE AGAIN, to a European war.
Tyler Green
We won the war at the cost of pretty much everything, we lost the empire because of it because we were so weal afterwards. Even though we were helped by the Marshall plan, we never got back to our previous heights
Aiden Anderson
he is not wrong
Evan Morgan
>though we were helped by the Marshall plan
Germany got 10 % of the Marshall Plan, UK around 25%.
Nolan Cooper
the UK was nowhere near a priority in ww2, the battle of britain just an annoying sideshow compared to eastern front
Jose Wood
It was Hitler that decided to declare war on the US. He could have cut off ties to Japan then and there.
Matthew Nelson
Ok bro my bad, I actually love France. I'm from pic related and my grandparents said that french occupation wasn't a bad time at all (even tho you were only nice because you wanted to annex us later on)
Germans are by nature a better people than either Anglos or francs. They could have easily 1v1ed any one those countries in a war, like they did in the Franco-Prussian war where they destroyed France with ease. But in both world wars it took the combined might of Russia, Britain, France and America to bring Germany down. But when allowed to prosper in peace safe from war and foreign attack, Germany will rise above and become far stronger than those other countries
Already, Germany's pet empire, the EU, outpaces America in GDP. All that they're missing is a glorious army like the good old days
Dylan Anderson
I'm not arguing with you lmao why are Germans so combative, it's not a competition
Julian Clark
This post gave me a boner. I may have to fap.
I'm fapping.
Alexander Campbell
Saarland was a weird case if I recall. It was essentially given an autonomous status pending a possible secession from the rest of Germany.
Gabriel Diaz
I wasn't arguing with you, I offered little-known information on the Marshall Plan that I have only come by recently myself.
Also, did you know that Swizerland received a portion of the MP too? What a disgusting waste of money.
Jordan Reed
Nothing he said was even remotely Nazi.
Luke White
The UK economy was reliant on colonies. It was becoming more difficult politically and socially to have colonies. On top of that America would clear our debts from the war if the UK released the nations, so they did.
Michael Jackson
>They could have easily 1v1ed any one those countries in a war They were a glorified doormat during the Napoleonic wars. The whole of modern day Germany essentially surrendered without a fight to Napoleon's troops in something like 3 weeks, despite being more numerous.
Michael Taylor
yeah fair enough on that
Logan Russell
Yeah we could vote to join France, Germany or be independent. We voted to remain with Germany with like 98% of the votes
Josiah Scott
>Implying that it would matter if Hitler declared war on USA anyway
They were already helping the allies, Japan invading USA territory was the nail in the coffin for USA to join in.
But yeah, the WW2 was one big nonsense clusterfuck, why would you be a white supremacist, then declare asians as allies?, the same ones that took Germany islands in WW1, then invade the western civilization first despite the fact that communists were the real targets.
Jaxson Johnson
>We voted to remain with Germany
You chose poorly.
Wyatt Lewis
First question, It's ironically the loss of empires that affected the psyche of both French and the British, who no doubt couldn't handle losing an easy source of resources from their former colonies when Germany had no such dependencies.
Denmark and Sweden became more important to the nations of Europe since the former colonies just shunned their colonizers after freedom. With the need to keep up the resource demands from their own citizens to maintain their glorious lifestyles, they had no choice but to turn and partner with countries like Norway, Finland et al.
Jaxon Walker
Napoleon was equally good in raising spirit as Hitler. Also Germany being a military power only came with Prussia
Schnauze du bayern homo, ich weiß dass du es bist
Caleb Brown
>why would you be a white supremacist, then declare asians as allies?
Hitler was a weaboo.
The lesson to take away here: >Never send an Austrian to do a white man's job
Jackson Perry
Apologies maybe I'm defensive myself
That is bad, I didn't know that, seems pretty redundant. Maybe just trying to make everyone happy to stop another war, might have worked I suppose
Parker Anderson
Dont overglorify Germany people, the only reason they could 1v1 everyone back in the old days was because they have always been the most numerous European country, even today they outnumber any European countries in numbers, they did not have much numers against Russia.
James Perez
>Schnauze du bayern homo, ich weiß dass du es bist
lmao woher wusstest du es ^^
Lucas Rogers
Duhm? Der ReiBefranke ist in Züpern
David Sanders
>why would you be a white supremacist Equating Nazi racial policy with modern-day white supremacist ideology is wrong, period.
you fought an uncountable number of mini kingdoms not a unified Germany
Isaac Gutierrez
It couldn't have been more true, haha
Justin Gutierrez
Exactly, It was a self-destructive move, one your former colony of America would make.
Surely, there must have been a consensus that fighting a war based on ideals despite invasion of France is just unrealistic if they wanted to hold onto power. An alliance that could have been broken, forming a new one with a new power and all this while keeping the commonwealth and not needing a former colony to come and assist you.
How could it be that breaking an alliance with France was just a no go?
Germany not breaking its alliance with Japan is understandable since they were self sufficient, with no colonies and just vindictive.
Jacob Allen
>we don't live in a timeline where Germany won ww1
truly the worst of times...
Owen Scott
I love Germany too. I have a lot of respect for your people and your invaluable contributions in the fields of industrial and military science, and philosophy. I also have nothing against the Germany of today, I just believe that a dismantlement of Germany was an acceptable solution back then.
Robert Hernandez
Germany has 20 million more people so it will eclipse other first world nations economically The end
Tyler Lee
It wasn't really France that made us go to war, it was actually Poland believe it or not, we had a defence pact with them. When war actually started between us it was a bit weird for a while - people called it the phoney war because we weren't properly invading, it was just skirmishes. It gradually escalated between us. And I doubt there was any idea of what it would develop into when war started, it started off as a purely European thing remember. Alliances are alliances, got to honour them if you can. Besides regarding losing the colonies I'm sure the war just hastened the inevitable, better to let them go relatively peacefully than fight over it
Isaac Jenkins
>it was actually Poland believe it or not,
I don't , because you left them to rot under communist rule.
You went to war for the kikes.
Owen Bennett
>Germany has 20 million more people
East Germans aren't people.
Camden Williams
losing the empire only became inevitable bc Britain bankrupted itself with the world wars
Kayden Reed
Why does this silly opinion keep getting parroted on Jow Forums? The Soviet union technically didn't invade Poland so we didn't have to "defend" them. Or I suppose we should have gone to war with the soviets straight after winning a war with their help? Jow Forums I swear, people act as if the UK did nothing because we didn't do everything to make everything perfect, as if we had the ability
Bah can you really imagine old style colonies existing today?
Noah Brooks
I know about the phoney war, Chamberlain's "Peace in our time" paper. I also know Churchill's insistence of war/appointing of ministers with no real political background. Surely, the invasion of France is when everything escalated to full dick in war.
It's about the logistics. I'm sure when Germany's army breezed through Europe demonstrating its prowess, The intelligence/Army Generals would be able to offer up a better solution when Germany itself wanted peace.
Losing colonies set a precedent like putting your substitutes on for main players when you're losing, There is no way a guy like Gandhi would have risen up so much if the UK kept its proxy leaders in charge. Somehow, your parliament thirst for war, something I would expect from the US, not UK.
Jaxon Kelly
Hitler had nothing to do with white supremacism this was a postwar Zionist meme.
Hitler would slap you if you told him that poles or French were the same race as him.
Landon Diaz
Think of me when you cum
Jayden Ortiz
>Bah can you really imagine old style colonies existing today? no, but we're talking from hindsight had there been no WW1/2 (or if it went differently and less disastrous for Europe) the world would be an entirely different place
Luis Anderson
Cum on me when you think.
Dominic Campbell
I would have expected you to learn from German style treatment of colonies thus adopting better systems of ruling the colonies. It's not like the colonies fared any better apart from Canada/Australia after independence.
Colton Price
yet they fell behind Germany in every metric
>economy Germany's unique geographical features give it unrivaled bonuses to trade. Its extensive navigable waterways, combined with its access to seaports, and its central location give it a competitive edge, supported by a comprehensive infrastructure network guarantees German industrial and agricultural surplus enjoy lower transportation costs. Among this technology, communication and transportation all flourish.
>quality of life Its particularly easy to increase quality of life when you have the densest concentration of wealth in the world and the busiest internal waterways fueling that wealth. Unfortunately its a lot more complicated than France of the UK to hold it all together with political unity.
>education Early Berlin policymakers prioritized mass universities, research institutions and education. They made education compulsory 100 years before the UK did to take advantage of its highly urbanized population percentage, which is why Germany was at the forefront of science and innovation during WW2.
Wyatt Evans
B-but... Poles, French and German people are the same race.
Hudson Brown
O-Ok...
Elijah Reyes
>Poles, French and German people are the same race. *shoots you*
>Poles, French and German people are the same race.
Poles aren't even the same species.
Parker Powell
>muh waterways Do you have any other arguments beside of that? Also the best geogrpahic location in europe has the UK, They are surrounded by sea but still close to europe and reach every port they want. Because of that they were able to create colonies like your godforsaken shithole. We couldnt do that to the extend like anglos because we had to drive through the english channel when we wanted to go to our colonies. And still we dominate them.
The best geographical position is the one in mainland. Trucks are faster than Ships. The British cannot even dream of invading and occupying Europe.
An unified Europe makes UK the Hong Kong of Europe. Even a fractured Europe outpaces the UK
Austin Phillips
Being an island actually fucks up trade too. Transporting goods by truck and train in dense areas like western Europe is cheaper than by boat.
More goods are exchanged between Canada and the US in the Detroit border crossing than between the entire UK and US. Despite the UK being the bigger economy and having more people.
Christian Moore
When did the French policy of civic nationalism and immigration from their colonies exactly start? I have seen pictures from WW2 mocking them for it. (Last Parisiens in the Zoo, most people probably know it here). Quite frankly, I think France was the first western nation to do that.
Juan Roberts
>When did the French policy of civic nationalism and immigration from their colonies exactly start? Didnt exactly have a start, though I'd put it around the revolution period. Napoleon had a black general, pic related. I even read stories about a black mayor in 1940 with whom the occupation forces didnt want to deal with.
>Do you have any other arguments beside of that? Yes, they're all listed there. Main one being the entire geography of Germany that works in favor of generating wealth. Germany has busier waterways then the rest of the world. The Mississippi major tributaries, which in total length are far longer than the Elbe, Rhine and Danube still dont generate as much wealth.
>Also the best geogrpahic location in europe has the UK France was the predominant power in Europe before Germany united. It was in the best position to take advantage of of Europes climate, trade routes and natural borders. As far as geography goes for the UK, they were in a good, but not great position. The strategic advantages the UK gets from being an island nation creates some problems too, which include making it difficult to maintain the Union, mainly between it, Ireland and Scotland. Mountains, rivers and oceans usually promote isolation and separation between identities and cultures. Without Scotland or Ireland, the UK would suffer a major strategic blow in the north sea and with its reduced role and power of the RN, would be subject to outside naval powers.
Xavier Baker
Give us 90 million of people + x million of other people who speak your same language Then we can talk again
Carson Evans
Good post
Benjamin Flores
>Napoleon had a black general, pic related. Stop memeing this shit. He was the half-black son of a white nobleman who brought him back to France before the revolution had even started. This shit happened in Britain and even Russia as well in extremely rare, isolated cases that wouldn't become the norm until the 1960s.
>Give us 90 million of people That's what Merkel is currently doing, isn't she? They may only barely qualify as people bit whatever.
Eli Howard
what would a timeline with a German victory in WW1 look like ?
Post war Germany was being pumped full of money from the West, didn’t have to fund an expensive military and investors were able to take advantage of post war Germany to invest, not to mention Germany’s industrial heritage. While France and UK Had to concentrate on rebuilding and re-arm for another potential war
Liam Adams
gave me a boner
Chase Taylor
Kaiserreich has some pretty out there shit, some of it most likely purely for game balance. >Germany still has the staying power and political will to not only fend off all its enemies, but also invade Russia to destroy the Reds AND invade China to aid the Qing all in under a decade >The AOG somehow manages to conquer and maintain full control of the entirety of Southern China in a handful of years >Britain suddenly becomes syndicalist because France needs a syndie buddy >American civil war 2.0 because... reasons
Though a lot of it is somewhat plausible. I especially like that they didn't just make France randomly communist, as French socialism has always been more anarchist than German style totalitarian socialism. It's a nice touch and some attention to detail.
Charles Evans
why didnt you just loose the war then? you are talking like loosing the war was an better option then to win it. If it was a so great deal to be bombed to shit then why didnt you just loose for le epic gibs and moniez :D xd?
