Do people in your country believe in ghosts? Have you ever seen one or met someone who has seen one...

another way to see it is that this is probably how we can deconstruct ourselves

suppose that in our daily life our image/consciousness is bombarded by our own experiential bias to maintain stability in "rationality" superego, ego, etc, that is this is our bubble

but when we are put into a position to want to "see" something beyond reality, we adapt to our baser evolutionary stance of being this organism out the look out peering into the darkness, suddenly our bubble dissolves and our unconscious fear is the fulcrum and we expect reality to warp for us to preserve us through way of evolution

however we don't live in the wild and we can't rationally expect a lion to pounce at us when we stare at a desolate room in the dark so we are transfixed by our own nudity and frozen in the belief that perhaps reality have holes

I'm of the mind that I don't know. I'm pretty firmly agnostic so though I don't have evidence I wouldn't discount an experience.

My mom believes in guardian angels, not quite the same but similar

The thing is these type of experience is sensory enhanced and not physically verifiable, it doesn't make it unknown, that is probably your brain trying to convince your brain that you aren't crazy

lets set up a scenario and someone knows something about a place and they hear sounds every night or so from an empty part of the house
however they get up and check and etc and so on the rest of the story

this is all you need for the set up

however your brain will do the rest for you, how it happened, what caused it, how you feel, how your senses become heightened, as this is very important because you aren't thinking about how to make brownies when you are thinking about that noise, that noise in that specific place at that time become that focus, become that chink, that gaping void in your immediate physicality, it doesn't mean it is an unknown, it doesn't justify the abandonment of no-ghost reality

and my hypothesis is that this is our justification for the abandonment of the "surprise of nature"

see people pick on their pets (and put it on youtube) when they surprise their cats and the cats just freeze as if it "just saw a ghost"....
because it literally did

as humans we laugh it off but evolutionarily we are still have that reaction, we just need to justify it to look better than cats

humans are also vain btw

so you are that ghosts could be real?

i am saying we undermine ourselves, when psychologist say we aren't aware of your unconsciousness it means it will surprise us in ways we don't expect

I'm a ghost, ask me anything

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I think we don't have the science to know everything in the universe.

how do you shave?

we can be patient, it doesn't mean we should abandon our notion of reality, like kant said about ethics, if you cannot be ethical in every situation you are not being ethical
i am not saying you should not believe in ghosts, i am saying perhaps we should be asking different questions

I don't need to

ever talk to other ghosts?
>am saying perhaps we should be asking different questions
Diversity of thought is very very important. I would have to agree. Ask more questions.

Ghosts can't talk, we just stare at each other

you should try texting them.

>Diversity of thought is very very important. I would have to agree. Ask more questions.

okay perhaps this isn't what i mean

it is to be able to change our paradigm of reality quickly without resorting to extreme measures by maintaining a semblance of impartiality

the idea isn't to accept both contradictory positions of yes-ghost or no-ghost at the same time but to question how ghosts affect us and why we have to make this a question about reality

when we can judge the effect of ghosts on our mindset regarding reality we can come to the conclusion that it is better for our psyche (probably) to be safe in the belief that there are nothing that threatens our reality in a surprising way rather than to stand on our toes and be stressed about what is around the corner

this is a basic cost effectiveness calculation regarding risk and imo it is too stressful to believe in ghosts

I wish ghosts were real because I fear my own mortality

>the idea isn't to accept both contradictory positions of yes-ghost or no-ghost at the same time
Why not? What if the nature of what a ghost IS has been misunderstood? why limit people from exploring all angles via asking questions. it doesn't stop them from also considering your next question.
>but to question how ghosts affect us
we can do that too.
>and why we have to make this a question about reality.
>when we can judge the effect of ghosts on our mindset regarding reality we can come to the conclusion
Study ghost to come to the conclusion--
>that it is better for our psyche (probably) to be safe in the belief that there is nothing that threatens our reality
that our minds have convince us--
>in a surprising way rather than to stand on our toes and be stressed about what is around the corner
there is nothing wrong and we are safe.

I think that is what you are saying here. I'd say though, the discovery of ghosts or other living beings from another plane of existence would be FAR more interesting than the study of the human mind considering the former is the lesser know between the two.

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>Why not? What if the nature of what a ghost IS has been misunderstood? why limit people from exploring all angles via asking questions. it doesn't stop them from also considering your next question.

because it is not a question we actually seriously believe in, going back to the kantian ethics thing, and if it is we are lying to ourselves when we say we are curious because we aren't trying to find them, we are passively curious and are not consumed by passion as if we actually believe it, like those saints use to be, or crazies, we unconsciously let ghosts come to us because we "want" to believe that we are normal, this isn't something you can just brush away with "next question" in this case we are like hamlet contemplating suicide, it's not that we are going to carry it out, it's that we want to live

>FAR more interesting than the study of the human mind considering the former is the lesser know between the two
not really, because this is dependant on how you see ghosts

our mind not a complex mechanism, it's just our mind delude ourselves about our mind, we are literally little white lab mice running our own mazes with the question of our mind

More interesting to believe in spirits than to not, life’s just not worth living if you got the world figured out.

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It's a fundamental thing that arises from how the human brain is wired.

>not really, because this is dependent on how you see ghosts
Well I did pretext my sentence with my view and I stated as much that it would be my interest. I can speak for myself, so I would have to disagree strongly with you that I personally wouldn't find it more interesting.
>our mind not a complex mechanism, it's just our mind delude ourselves about our mind
Well the human hand cant make anything more complex-- so far. I would disagree.
>we are literally little white lab mice running our own mazes with the question of our mind
>literally
Are you sure you meant to use that word: literally?

I can't tell if you are trying to be poetic or some mixture of observations of nature/natural science or philosophy or you are not skilled at conveying your thoughts.

Yes
We have an entire month for the chinese to send stuff to them so they won't suffer as much

stop attacking me

Probably 40% of this country believes in ghosts, astrology, and demonic possession

I'm not attacking you, just trying to get to the bottom of what it is you are saying. I like other peoples ideas very much but I like them the most when I can understand them clearly. I think some of what you said is interesting and I'm glad you could share it. To disagreeing with someone isn't an attack, just a difference of opinions. That's all.

Try more. About 65% believe in some supernatural phenomena according to Pew.

thats a lot

Yes, our country does have idiots

Okay basically you have to be familiar with Kantian deontology and the nietchean position about God. These arernt just philosophical throwaway, these two positions tell us about how our modernity cannot accept a normal person to act like he believes in ghosts. Meaning if you really believe in ghosts you won't be "normal" if you outwardly act like it is part of your explanation of reality. Due to this phenomenon we can say at least in part that society and norm define what and how we see ghosts rather than some empirical creature/thing.

It is much easier to justify that ghosts is us trying to comes to terms with our evolutionary history than to make the argument that they are something beyond and independent of us.

I am trying to make these references because the question of the metaphysics is very much the point of philosophy. We can't just let it go to waste because we didn't read it.

>It is much easier to justify that ghosts is us trying to comes to terms with our evolutionary history than to make the argument that they are something beyond and independent of us.

is this something that Kant said or nietche said?

I did

But its based on either of their views or a postulation that was made by one of them?

it's occam's razor, supernatural beings is too far fetched, the burden of assumption is too great

Pre-1980's, most Malays believe in ghosts as nature spirits. After extensive Islamisation, most now believe ghosts are Djinns (beings made out of fire that live in a parallel dimension to us). Note that in Islam, Iblis (Lucifer) was a type of Djinn (versus Angels who are made of Light) and his Sin was not bowing to Adam after being commanded by God since he thought Adam was not worthy of respect due to humans being made of mud/earth. So Iblis gave rise to the race of shaitan (devils) and many Djinns (like many humans) became followers of Iblis. While shaitan only infect the morals and feelings of humans, the Djinns can possess psychologically weak humans and occasionally appear as ghosts to scare us.

>Occam's razor
I don't know, maybe it can be said because people have always believed in the supernatural that BELIEVING is least effort for the mind. I can't think of any country that doesn't have ghost stories or urban legends of some kind. If that is the case, wouldn't doubting the supernatural make you odd?

>I can't think of any country that doesn't have ghost stories or urban legends of some kind.

every country is made of people who were evolved, at least this is the agreement anyway

>If that is the case, wouldn't doubting the supernatural make you odd?

what i mean by modernity is that when we say we believe in ghosts we don't actually mean that my sister got pregnant because zeus impregnated her as a swan, we mean that modernity has effectively made ghosts invisible to us and act upon us in a minimalist way

when pregnancy was not well understood ghosts would do other things to us in physical ways like make scars or kill the dog

when most people couldn't read of course we know the ghost of impregnation without penetration and rain frogs

if we are being swayed by some force we would say that perhaps in the off chance maybe this coincidence about society and ghosts isn't really about what ghosts can do but about how we see reality based on our understanding of ourselves

how if we follow the believe-in-ghosts-theory we actually are getting closer to how ghosts really behave

>what i mean by modernity is that when we say we believe in ghosts we don't actually mean that my sister got pregnant because zeus impregnated her as a swan, we mean that modernity has effectively made ghosts invisible to us and act upon us in a minimalist way
You don't think people believe in immaculate conception anymore? Not everyone believes in modernity or evolution. Technology and the modern world didn't make all of those beliefs go away. In some places people are shunned for believing in things they cannot explain or are unwilling to explain but in other places in the world the holders of those divergent believes live in peace. I think its alright to have both types of people myself.

we are not trying to divide people
we are just saying why i subscribe to no-ghost

i don't want to make the distinction about what we should do to people that make excuses for their evolutionary fear
i only want to justify my belief

I think I get you. You are saying that modernity is what society has done to shape norms on commonly held beliefs regarding the supernatural?

a bit further, modernity is shaped by our understanding of ourselves, so we cut out the middle man of society and modernity and we get - we shape the supernatural - and since by definition of supernatural we have a logical paradox of contradiction, either we exist or supernatural exist, cogito ergo sum, ipso facto

>cogito ergo sum, ipso facto
I agree Descartes but I don't understand how there is an ultimatum: either we exist or supernatural exist. An individual can't shape all things with thought and they shouldn't always say that their own reality is supreme over all others'. I think there is a balance isn't there?

by exist i mean physically ofc, that is our "usual" understanding of it

going way back the in beginning
i did say although indirectly that your mind influence the supernatural through the subconscious
of course in a universal thermal dynamic point of view the energy used to conjure the supernatural is never lost....

>going way back the in beginning
This is the metaphysics of if you can allow yourself to believe in ghosts?

even if you do allow it, it is not a belief grounded in the physics of reality, it is like asking for permission in fantasy

this is what i mean by running the maze, we unconsciously construct the world in which we allow ourselves the freedom to interpret some "misrepresentation" as some evidence of ghosts, the subsumption of ghosts to satisfy our world-construction denies the possibility of the "realness" of ghosts, but this is ironic as your real-view is affected by the ghosts we need to conjure up to plug in the gap, we are not very good in compartmentalizing the world-views are construct

so the thing about being kantian has to do with the more advanced forms of ghost-believing, if we are deontological, duty-bound, by our belief in ghosts that means we should act in real life and speak about ghosts as if they do act upon us in ways we don't quite know, such as how we got sick last week, but we don't, this passive stance suggest that some part of our world-building mechanism don't have to take the other part so seriously even if it is seemingly permissible in reality to believe in ghosts

Unless it was the Holy Ghost, no.

I think you have a lot of substance filled views on your beliefs. It seems like you are a well read person and I respect that in a place like this more than you know. However
........*long pause*
I would suggest a writing courses/books that focus on honing your thoughts. Commonly used writing formats help the reader follow the writers train of thought without having them out the the weeds, intellectually. Even this pic related would be pretty useful.

Thank you for sharing, I'll have to read up on some of this Kant.

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sorry i know i rushed some things in the beginning because i want to test the waters, different people respond to text material differently, after much time on here i adapt a porcupine strategy with these type of topics
kant is for ethics, you won't get much out of him, i just used him for an explanation of acting true to what you believe in, it is the same as the lackadaisical christian for nietzsche, it is probably better if you read some analysis on his quite god is dead, this is applicable to ghosts, nietzsche used it to attack germans because they were not christian enough but in reality it is masking his nostalgia for greeco-romanticism a time when they really believed in ghosts

>his quite
his quote*

Yes, I live in a house next to a cemetery, and I have seen ghostly shapes a few times.

>Do people in your country believe in ghosts?
Yeah
>Have you ever seen one or met someone who has seen one?
Didn't meet one but during national service (3months conscription lite) we had to march back to the barracks at 2am down the mountain since the girls accidentally made camp on something's house, more than a dozen saw that thing flying around. Can't blame the thing the army turned the ancient rainforest into a training ground, I would be pissed too if some kid just drove a tank into your territory.
Old premise of foreign services converted to guest house is also spooky, foreign ambassadors run out screaming at night in some rooms and our local staff doesn't go out of their room after 10pm but whatever those things are they just turned around to glance at people who greeted them then left.
>Other paranormal experiences welcome as well
At nearby village was where a famous robber end up dead. Ex special forces turned robber called Commando guy, said to have invisibility magic that enabled him to escape countless times that even tracker dogs are useless once he enters the jungle. 6months of police operation palm fire nationwide with shootout,car chase, jungle chase and driving into the river action movie hero tier till he was finally cornered and asked for a final shootout to test his skills against the elite federal counter terrorist team.
He never killed anyone just shot guards in the arm with his signature Colt 1911.
Then there are some old stories from old soldiers about communist terrorist wizards who has bulletproof magic making them immune to small arms fire.

No.

Although many women believe any bullshit you tell them. The vaguer it is the better.

maybe yes
Ive ever seen a weird woman who is wearing white dress and barefoot in front of cemetery at midnight.
I'm not sure she is ghost or not.
but it was really scary.

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good choice, but it was a well

most people dont
only people who claimed to witnissed them or other paranormal stuff do
im one of them

She really looked like Sadako ( ;´Д`)
It's not joke desu.

the cool thing about sadako isn't that it is a ghost, it is a ghost inside a movie that becomes a ghost irl

sadako is like those blackmail spam people send to each other except a ghostly instance of sadako is created every time someone sees that movie, if they don't do something within sometime they die

the ring is much better than those shitty remakes

I haven't seen any ghosts but I'm open to the idea since I've had other kind of unexplained experiences and I've heard stories from several people about unexplained sounds and stuff moving around, even before their eyes.

I think The ring is nice film.
but ,the film traumatized me. _:(´ཀ`」 ∠):

that's because it is saying something about voyeur
it plays on your expectation when that character puts in the tape in for the first time as you see images of sadako you are being prepared for something

you can infer the tape had something very very sinister and as you watch the film you are forced to confront what was on the tape transferring some guilt to you
sadako's torment means something to you, this is kind of lost nowadays as we see death on the internet all the time, but the movie makes the contrast very very clear with the composition, the journalist main character on screen time is always very bright and the time about sadako and her victims is always very dark

i haven't seen it in more than 10 years and i still remember it

This is a really COOL thread